Up to 5 signings

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Dutch Peacock
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Re: Up to 5 signings

Post by Dutch Peacock »

Which of the youngsters out of the academy will have a chance of making it with the signing of 4 to 5 players?

Sign:
- goalkeeper
- left back
- def midfielder
- Att midfielder
- Winger
- Striker

Sell:
- Pablo
- Alioski
- Kiko
- Roberts
- Maybe Harrison (don’t sign)
- Maybe Helder Costa

Who will could make the step up from the academy you think?
- Poveda?
- Drameh?
- Gelhardt?
- Jenkins?
- Cresswell?
- Summerville?
- Huggins?
- Greenwood?
- Kenneh?
- Davis?
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Re: Up to 5 signings

Post by CHAPELALLMAN »

Ron Swanson wrote: Fri Feb 26, 2021 4:43 pm Harrison & Costa lacked goals last season, however they weren’t helped by the fact that Bamford for large parts of the season couldn’t hit the side of a bus from five yards away.

His improvement this term has been huge.

Fewer chances, playing against better defenders and keepers... and yet he’ll score more this season, with eight fewer league fixtures.

Funny old game.
And yet the team have had 354 shots this season, so I'm not sure that 6 goals is something to get overly excited about from a winger in a team which creates so many chances. Bamford, Harrison and Costa all massively underperformed last season given the number of chances. Obviously Paddy has improved his finishing markedly. This article is interesting in relation to last season's stats ; https://www.statsperform.com/resource/e ... ds-united/
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Re: Up to 5 signings

Post by Smudge3920 »

And yet we lie 10th in the premier league, 13 points clear of 18th place with 14 games to go, with , what is it the 16th(? out of 20) most expensive team in the league... Stats are handy at times but not the be all and end all, and do not always reflect an accurate picture....oh and our first year in the prem in 16 years ....some seem to forget that.
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Re: Up to 5 signings

Post by Smudge3920 »

To add to my last, we all agree that we are a work in progress. That we need to build and add...and we also agree that takes time and the summer will be the next phase... I find it difficult to understand why some can be so critical of a bunch of guys who have done such a remarkable job in the last 2 and 1/2 years... They are professionals, they know changes will come, yet they still perform week in and week out for the team.

Personally I will be sad when this team is actually broken up...it maybe necassary, but that does not make it less dissapointing it has to be.
Last edited by Smudge3920 on Fri Feb 26, 2021 10:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Up to 5 signings

Post by HarryofOz »

Smudge3920 wrote: Fri Feb 26, 2021 9:51 pm And yet we lie 10th in the premier league, 13 points clear of 18th place with 14 games to go, with , what is it the 16th(? out of 20) most expensive team in the league... Stats are handy at times but not the be all and end all, and do not always reflect an accurate picture....oh and our first year in the prem in 16 years ....some seem to forget that.
It's unbelievable. Sixteen years in the wilderness. Then this group of players fills out football dreams and gets us back in the top flight.

Not only gets us back but has a better season than most would dream of, almost every other team that has been promoted to the Premier League since it started being such a money-spinner.

The players have given their all, all have improved their play over the last couple of seasons, and they are playing a style of football that has thrilled the world.

Yet there are still calls to dump half of them.
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Re: Up to 5 signings

Post by CHAPELALLMAN »

HarryofOz wrote: Fri Feb 26, 2021 10:00 pm It's unbelievable. Sixteen years in the wilderness. Then this group of players fills out football dreams and gets us back in the top flight.

Not only gets us back but has a better season than most would dream of, almost every other team that has been promoted to the Premier League since it started being such a money-spinner.

The players have given their all, all have improved their play over the last couple of seasons, and they are playing a style of football that has thrilled the world.

Yet there are still calls to dump half of them.
I don't think that Alioski wanting to leave at the end of his contract ( which is likely ) and upgrading on one or two others so that they are more squad players constitutes dumping half of them.

Let's go back to when Wilko took over in late 1988. The club had spent 6.5 years out of the 1st division at that point, having been one of the best in the country and Europe for 10 years up to 1975. Wilko won the old second division in his first full season 89/90 and then upgraded on one or two players - principally he dumped Jones and brought in McAllister, which was a huge upgrade. No room for sentimentality there - just pragmatism. They then went on to finish 4th in their first season back in the top tier and subsequently won the title after pipping Man U the season after.

So it's a matter of looking ahead and upgrading where necessary in order to go up the next level. It is indeed really good what is happening right now - but maybe some of the people on here don't really know what it was like to follow the club when it went from near the bottom of division two in late 1988 to champions of league two ( now the championship ) in 1990, 4th the season after in the top tier, and then to first division champions in 1991/92 ( now the PL ) It was one hell of a meteoric rise I can tell you.I guess some of us have seen more of the ' ups and downs ' than others.

The Blades finished 9th last season don't forget - I guess back then they thought that all their dreams were coming true as well. That's why I don't get too carried away.

Players are professionals, but they are also extremely well paid professionals beyond the wildest dreams of most people. That wasn't really the case in 1989/90 and 1991/2 - they were well paid back then, but not the millionaires that they are now. Let's be realistic - sometimes people talk a bit as though they are amateurs doing this purely for the love of the club. So sentimentality has a place - but only to a degree. The days when players spent their entire careers at one club ( such as many Revie players did ) are over.
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Re: Up to 5 signings

Post by Cjay »

Some getting upset about the thought of "breaking up the squad".

Fair enough, they did something that will see them all live long in the memory and the history of LUFC.

But it is Radz who has spoken about the club needing to "shed its Championship skin", it is Bielsa who surprisingly for him but practically said in the press that Roberts is playing for his future and it is Phil Hay who has said the club are actively looking for upto 5 new signings in the summer (he said 4 to 5 last summer and we got 4).

The club are preparing to start breaking up the Championship winning squad, we all can have opinions about it but it is going to happen and it starts in the summer.

If Bielsa wants 5 new players then 5 of his first team 18 that he has spoken about have to go, thats how he works as we know.

The players have done exceptional so far this season (dont speak to soon of course) but when you see someone like Raph for example it has to be the aim to have more of his quality surely? Thats progress and as they say their is no room for sentiment in football, Alex Ferguson was a master of it, he moved players on when he felt it was time regardless of what any fans thought and if Bielsa feels like that then thats how it has to be.

And i say all that knowing that two of my absolute favourites Alioski and Pablo are looking like 2 of the first out the door.

We need better quality in the main 18 if we want to progress and i look forward to it tbh because i want to see us winning and competing for major trophies and such in my lifetime (never seen us win one).

The Championship winners will go down in history but the club is preparing to start looking to the future.
Last edited by Cjay on Fri Feb 26, 2021 11:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Up to 5 signings

Post by mav »

Some on here talk so much shite it is amazing.

I can't imagine more than 3 or 4 for the first team, a LB, 2 CM and a GK

To replace Allioski, Forshaw, Pablo and Kiko.

Presuming Bielsa stays that is.
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Re: Up to 5 signings

Post by HarryofOz »

CHAPELALLMAN wrote: Fri Feb 26, 2021 11:11 pm I don't think that Alioski wanting to leave at the end of his contract ( which is likely ) and upgrading on one or two others so that they are more squad players constitutes dumping half of them.

Let's go back to when Wilko took over in late 1988. The club had spent 6.5 years out of the 1st division at that point, having been one of the best in the country and Europe for 10 years up to 1975. Wilko won the old second division in his first full season 89/90 and then upgraded on one or two players - principally he dumped Jones and brought in McAllister, which was a huge upgrade. No room for sentimentality there - just pragmatism. They then went on to finish 4th in their first season back in the top tier and subsequently won the title after pipping Man U the season after.

So it's a matter of looking ahead and upgrading where necessary in order to go up the next level. It is indeed really good what is happening right now - but maybe some of the people on here don't really know what it was like to follow the club when it went from near the bottom of division two in late 1988 to champions of league two ( now the championship ) in 1990, 4th the season after in the top tier, and then to first division champions in 1991/92 ( now the PL ) It was one hell of a meteoric rise I can tell you.I guess some of us have seen more of the ' ups and downs ' than others.

The Blades finished 9th last season don't forget - I guess back then they thought that all their dreams were coming true as well. That's why I don't get too carried away.

Players are professionals, but they are also extremely well paid professionals beyond the wildest dreams of most people. That wasn't really the case in 1989/90 and 1991/2 - they were well paid back then, but not the millionaires that they are now. Let's be realistic - sometimes people talk a bit as though they are amateurs doing this purely for the love of the club. So sentimentality has a place - but only to a degree. The days when players spent their entire careers at one club ( such as many Revie players did ) are over.
Of course you have to keep improving the squad but you don't have to do in in blocks of five players, two or three will suffice in our case.

The issue is that a player can play well for a long time, put in a couple of bad performances and all of sudden he's not good enough according to some fans.

We constantly get calls to sign players that people have not seen play for ninety minutes week in and week out.

We are not in a financial position to have a squad of internationals where our second eleven is going to be almost as good as our first.

Bielsa has been loyal to players that fans have criticised and has been proved right. I'll trust him to know when to replace players.

People can express their opinions - that's fine - I will express counter opinions. But I'd like to see acknowledge when they are proved wrong.

I've been following our Leeds since the late 70s (just missed the glory years) and have seen many downs and ups. We collapsed under Wilko because we replaced good players with worse players. So far the regime (for want of a better word) have steered us on an upward improving scale.

And I'm sure you remember what happened under Ridsdale. What started as a reasonable medium-long term building plan turned out to be rushed disaster as we spent millions on players that we didn't need so that we could have a bench of internationals.

Man City and Chelsea with their untold millions could afford to go out and spend 800 million odd to quickly build team that could challenge immediately for the title. We don't have that luxury.

As long as you have a strong enough squad and team overall, the fact that a few individuals are not star quality does not matter. Half the squad that we were relegated with in 2004 also played in the successful period under David O'Leary. So that group of players may not have been good enough to be successful, but throw in a few others and all of a sudden they can play their part in a successful team.

I have no doubt that over time Bielsa (or his successor when that happens) will make changes, but there is no rush to do so.
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Re: Up to 5 signings

Post by Carrick Dave »

I can see Gaetano, Gjanni, Pablo and Forshaw leaving in the natural way of things, and the rest of the squad bolstered and competing for places next year with new arrivals.

We’ll sign Jack because Bielsa loves him and Radz knows he can double his money - £11m.

Phil Hay reckons interest in Romaine Perraud is genuine at LB - £10m.

One name linked is Damsgaard for AM at £17m, or we can break the bank for de Paul or Buendia.

As a Kalvin understudy I’d go for Romain Sawyers after West Brom go down, Bielsa would work wonders £18m.

All sorted for £56m with cash over for a keeper if Kiki goes.

Seriously though, I think we’ll still buy cheaper and riskier potential rather than the finished article at exorbitant prices.
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Re: Up to 5 signings

Post by Smudge3920 »

Chapel wrote...
It was one hell of a meteoric rise I can tell you.
And where did that meteoric rise lead to?...16 years in the wilderness... And many were screaming at the time about the ridiculous overspending that was going on.

I guess some of us have seen more of the ' ups and downs ' than others.
My first attended game, Elland Road 1959. Great Grandfather, Grandfather and Father, sadly all passed away now. But I can guarentee my family will be present for at least the next 3 generations no matter what. And just from reading posts, you can see there are many more (if not most, as it is a relatively small forum) lifelong supporters in this forum and I am sure with family ties before and to come.

sometimes people talk a bit as though they are amateurs doing this purely for the love of the club.
I think true supporters just show the thanks for what the players of the day contribute.
CJ wrote...
Some getting upset about the thought of "breaking up the squad".
As I was the one who used the term "broken up" I will put it in its true context... Not getting upset at all, what I wrote was,

"Personally I will be sad when this team is actually broken up...it maybe necassary, but that does not make it less dissapointing it has to be".

This current team brings something to the club not seen since the Revie team... and it is something that cannot be bought.

We need better quality in the main 18 if we want to progress and i look forward to it tbh because i want to see us winning and competing for major
trophies and such in my lifetime (never seen us win one).
Not one person in this forum disputes or disagrees with that...Just some of us do not have to repeat ourselves every other post...Lets just do it the right way this time around and not in a metioric way, that is not sustainable...been there done that.
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Re: Up to 5 signings

Post by CHAPELALLMAN »

Smudge3920 wrote: Sat Feb 27, 2021 4:50 am
Chapel wrote...
It was one hell of a meteoric rise I can tell you.
And where did that meteoric rise lead to?...16 years in the wilderness... And many were screaming at the time about the ridiculous overspending that was going on.

After winning the title in 1992 the club enjoyed another 12 years in the PL, often finishing in the top 5 or 6.Wilko's glory years had nothing to do with the later mismanagement of the club by Risdale, which obviously came nearly a decade later.

I guess some of us have seen more of the ' ups and downs ' than others.
My first attended game, Elland Road 1959. Great Grandfather, Grandfather and Father, sadly all passed away now. But I can guarentee my family will be present for at least the next 3 generations no matter what. And just from reading posts, you can see there are many more (if not most, as it is a relatively small forum) lifelong supporters in this forum and I am sure with family ties before and to come.

Fine - but I think there are obviously a number of younger members who have only known the championship or league 1. They have not yet experienced the club fighting it out in the top 3 in the PL. Hopefully that will come though.

sometimes people talk a bit as though they are amateurs doing this purely for the love of the club.
I think true supporters just show the thanks for what the players of the day contribute.

Does that mean that fans can't discuss the merits of various players lest they are labelled ' not true supporters ' ? If so that seems like quite an extreme viewpoint to me... As Orwell put it ' if liberty means anything at all, it means the right to tell people what they don't want to hear. '
Last edited by CHAPELALLMAN on Sat Feb 27, 2021 11:49 am, edited 15 times in total.
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Re: Up to 5 signings

Post by CHAPELALLMAN »

HarryofOz wrote: Sat Feb 27, 2021 12:06 am Of course you have to keep improving the squad but you don't have to do in in blocks of five players, two or three will suffice in our case.

The issue is that a player can play well for a long time, put in a couple of bad performances and all of sudden he's not good enough according to some fans.

We constantly get calls to sign players that people have not seen play for ninety minutes week in and week out.

We are not in a financial position to have a squad of internationals where our second eleven is going to be almost as good as our first.

Bielsa has been loyal to players that fans have criticised and has been proved right. I'll trust him to know when to replace players.

People can express their opinions - that's fine - I will express counter opinions. But I'd like to see acknowledge when they are proved wrong.

I've been following our Leeds since the late 70s (just missed the glory years) and have seen many downs and ups. We collapsed under Wilko because we replaced good players with worse players. So far the regime (for want of a better word) have steered us on an upward improving scale.

And I'm sure you remember what happened under Ridsdale. What started as a reasonable medium-long term building plan turned out to be rushed disaster as we spent millions on players that we didn't need so that we could have a bench of internationals.

Man City and Chelsea with their untold millions could afford to go out and spend 800 million odd to quickly build team that could challenge immediately for the title. We don't have that luxury.

As long as you have a strong enough squad and team overall, the fact that a few individuals are not star quality does not matter. Half the squad that we were relegated with in 2004 also played in the successful period under David O'Leary. So that group of players may not have been good enough to be successful, but throw in a few others and all of a sudden they can play their part in a successful team.

I have no doubt that over time Bielsa (or his successor when that happens) will make changes, but there is no rush to do so.
We won the old second division under Wilko, came 4th the next year in the top tier, and then won what is now the PL the following year. In 1993/4 and 94/5 the club finished 5th each time in the PL. So under Wilko the club finished in the top 5 four times out of his 6 years managing the club in the top tier. The club also competed in the European Cup in 1993 and the UEFA Cup in 1995 and reached the final of the League Cup. Yet people talk about those years as though this current regime is infinitely better ! Wilko made the club champions twice over in just 3 seasons.

Under O'Leary the club never finished outside the top 5 in the PL - 4th, 3rd, 4th and 5th. There is also the small matter of reaching the UEFA Cup semis and the Champions League semis in consecutive years. For me, what Risdale did in terms of the financial mismanagement of the club is a separate matter to O'Leary's management of the players. Unfortunately the Bowyer/Woodgate affair didn't help him one bit. Again, people talk as though the current regime is infinitely better - well maybe it is in terms of the chairmanship, however there is still a long long way to go to come anywhere near matching the success of the Wilko and O'Leary eras...Things are going well for sure, but I like to keep my feet planted firmly on the ground.
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Re: Up to 5 signings

Post by Smudge3920 »

Chapel wrote ...
After winning the title in 1992 the club enjoyed another 12 years in the PL, often finishing in the top 5 or 6.Wilko's glory years had nothing to do with the later mismanagement of the club by Risdale, which obviously came nearly a decade later.
Your right, not a great example...I guess the point I was making was after 92 we won nothing, competed yes, erraticly but competed.

Does that mean that fans can't discuss the merits of various players lest they are labelled ' not true supporters ' ? If so that seems like quite an extreme viewpoint to me... As Orwell put it ' if liberty means anything at all, it means the right to tell people what they don't want to hear. '
IMO it is you at times that cannot take disagreement, as you always have to polorise things.
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Re: Up to 5 signings

Post by CHAPELALLMAN »

Smudge3920 wrote: Sat Feb 27, 2021 12:26 pm
Your right, not a great example...I guess the point I was making was after 92 we won nothing, competed yes, erraticly but competed.

After winning the title, we had one 3rd place PL finish, 2x 4th finishes and 4 x 5th place finishes - that's 7 seasons in the top 5, plus obviously two titles just before that achieved in just 3 years. We also won the Charity Shield, were in 2 consecutive European semis and the League Cup final. Under O'Leary we led the PL at various times, and went head to head with Man U for the title at one point.

For someone like me who spent quite a few seasons watching the team playing at ER against the likes of Rotherham or Oldham, and with crowds of 10,000 or so, those years in the PL were a dream come true. Up to the start of this season the club still had the 7th highest points per game since the PL started due to those consistent years from 1993 to 2001 - only Man U, Arsenal, Chelsea, Liverpool, Man City and Spurs had more.


IMO it is you at times that cannot take disagreement, as you always have to polorise things.

I wont be provoked - so ' no comment ' to that.
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Re: Up to 5 signings

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CHAPELALLMAN wrote: Sat Feb 27, 2021 1:24 pm Your right, not a great example...I guess the point I was making was after 92 we won nothing, competed yes, erraticly but competed.

After winning the title, we had one 3rd place PL finish, 2x 4th finishes and 4 x 5th place finishes - that's 7 seasons in the top 5, plus obviously two titles just before that achieved in just 3 years. We also won the Charity Shield, were in 2 consecutive European semis and the League Cup final. Under O'Leary we led the PL at various times, and went head to head with Man U for the title at one point.

For someone like me who spent quite a few seasons watching the team playing at ER against the likes of Rotherham or Oldham, and with crowds of 10,000 or so, those years in the PL were a dream come true. Up to the start of this season the club still had the 7th highest points per game since the PL started due to those consistent years from 1993 to 2001 - only Man U, Arsenal, Chelsea, Liverpool, Man City and Spurs had more.

Fair points...

IMO it is you at times that cannot take disagreement, as you always have to polorise things.

I wont be provoked - so ' no comment ' to that.
Neither will I ...so quit it.
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Re: Up to 5 signings

Post by hector »

play nice please
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Re: Up to 5 signings

Post by Cjay »

Smudge3920 wrote: Sat Feb 27, 2021 4:50 am
What do you consider "the right way"?

All this thread is about is what the club are saying.

What the owner has said and what Phil Hay has been told.

So people give opinions on where we need to improve and who could be sold or become bench players as is guaranteed to happen.

Just some of us do not have to repeat ourselves every other post

And that last bit is hard luck on your part, if people want to repeat themselves then they can. :tup: :P
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Re: Up to 5 signings

Post by SG90 »

Sergio Romero
Romain Perraud
Teun Koopmeiners
Michael Olise
Odsonne Eduoard

:tup:
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Re: Up to 5 signings

Post by Overman »

mav wrote: Fri Feb 26, 2021 11:38 pm Some on here talk so much shite it is amazing.

I can't imagine more than 3 or 4 for the first team, a LB, 2 CM and a GK

To replace Allioski, Forshaw, Pablo and Kiko.

Presuming Bielsa stays that is.
Do you include yourself in that group?

That's why it's called a forum, catering for diversity of views, thoughts and opinions. I know this seems to be lost on some, wouldn't it be dull if we all just 'agreed'.
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