Leeds United v West Ham Utd - Match Thread

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whiteswan
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Re: Leeds United v West Ham Utd - Match Thread

Post by whiteswan »

Irish Ian wrote: Fri Dec 11, 2020 11:13 pm

Lets remain hopeful.
.....that there are 3 worst teams than us
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Re: Leeds United v West Ham Utd - Match Thread

Post by Cumbriarents »

Would it have been a different result if the fans were there?
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Re: Leeds United v West Ham Utd - Match Thread

Post by Cjay »

Irish Ian wrote: Fri Dec 11, 2020 11:13 pm The one ray of hope ( for me anyhow) is that in previous occassions when things were not going our way it could be said that even in the games we lost all would have been well if we had have taken our chances.

In other words the system was working

This time things are different, before our first game Bielsa said he was open to a change of approach, but after Liverpool, Citeh, Blunts and Villans we thought our style would be enough.

But it is obvious now that we need to change.

Bielsa will help us sort it out.

Lets remain hopeful.
We should look at them and take heed.

The system isnt enough in the Prem, eventually it catches up with you.
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Re: Leeds United v West Ham Utd - Match Thread

Post by Cjay »

Cumbriarents wrote: Fri Dec 11, 2020 11:17 pm Would it have been a different result if the fans were there?
Dont think so mate, could have been worse?

Nerves and that.

Welcome to the forum :)
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Re: Leeds United v West Ham Utd - Match Thread

Post by Overman »

The likes of Alio, Cooper, Dallas, Roberts, (more League One), Harrison, Ayling and Costa, are essentially Championship players. This is clearly starting to show now and it's hard to see where our next goal is coming from. Klich is misfiring at the moment and Rodrigo is really not suited to the No 10 role. Sadly, we need to look beyond Pablo now and try to bring a much needed creative midfielder in January. We are crying out for a natural left back, as time and time again, we are all too exposed down that side.

Eventually we will also need to look at life beyond MB, as he may well not be here next season.
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Re: Leeds United v West Ham Utd - Match Thread

Post by BobHirst »

Have we finally been "found out"?
Against Chelsea we looked very ordinary and out classed by far better players.
Today West Ham didn't press us anywhere near as much as Chelsea did but they allowed us to come forward a bit and then wait for our mistakes. Probably not as obvious as against Chelsea but again we were out classed by better players and I think by a team who knew how to beat us. It wasn't all down to whack it into the box and they won't be able to stop our headers but that certainly is a big big problem for us this season.
Maybe the guy who can reach about 12 feet into the air needs to be instructed to leave his line and get to the ball a bit more. Having said that he had no chance with the second goal, just an excellent free kick and header.
Even at this stage we need a couple of wins from our next 3 games to try to keep away from relegation trouble.
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Re: Leeds United v West Ham Utd - Match Thread

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Cjay wrote: Fri Dec 11, 2020 10:27 pm It was always going to be difficult tbf to fix all our squad issues in 1 season.

But that begs the question is BielsaBall sustainable over 1 season in the Prem without the higher level players?

There is a reason most Prem sides play on the counter, its bloody difficult to play the way we play at this level.

Even Wolves who had an infinitely better squad realised fairly fast they couldn't play the possession and high press style they had in the Championship.

It can work as we have seen but then chances are missed, or sloppy goals conceded.

The system isnt flawed imo, the system works, its the individual parts that are flawed.

Look how much trouble Pep had in his 1st season, and again that City squad was still much better man for man
I can agree with a lot of that. The system is not at fault. I think our players have to develop into the premier league and we need to SLOWLY phase in better players. I think the lower level of quality shows at set pieces. Man for man PL teams are better than us and we're found wanting. It shows in execution. We control possession and the chances but the experience PL teams execute better at both ends. I don't want us to change the system. It's just going to take slow, gradual, upgrades. Sadly I think we're 2 or 3 years away and Bielsa will be retired by then.
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Re: Leeds United v West Ham Utd - Match Thread

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HarryofOz wrote: Fri Dec 11, 2020 10:29 pm We need Rodrigo to start

Where is Rodrigo

What is the point of only bringing Rodrigo late in the game

Rodrigo plays and we lose

Drop Rodrigo

Get rid of Rodrigo

Rodri must go
I agree
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Re: Leeds United v West Ham Utd - Match Thread

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becchio bear wrote: Fri Dec 11, 2020 10:34 pm Ok my take on this is:- We didn't play particularly well tonight, yes in spells we did, good passing etc and then not so good. Since the Leicester game when Pablo was subbed we have won one game out of 5. Pablo was subbed during the Leicester game for Roberts and apparently kicked a water bottle and threw his armband to the floor which was retrospectively noticed by Bielsa!! Pablo has not played since.... Tonight was the first time he featured on the bench. We needed a bit of magic, some wizardry, Pablo was available, nope, Bielsa chose Roberts! Am I reading too much into this? :bear:
Pablo on the bench was an olive branch. Roberts on before Pablo was probably because Bielsa wanted him to play as a striker. So who knows. I would have preferred Pablo on and Rodrigo up front or Pablo for Rodrigo. Still a bit questionable where Pablo stands. Tellingly, we only had one defender on the bench instead of two. He could have left Pablo out for Davis or Casey. So, it looks like he's still part of the plan.
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Re: Leeds United v West Ham Utd - Match Thread

Post by andrewjohnsmith »

Fridge wrote: Fri Dec 11, 2020 10:39 pm Been calling for Rodrigo to start, looked really good in previous games.

He was awful tonight though swan. Really really awful.

I have got faith that it was probably just one bad game and on balance should probably still start against Newcastle, if only for lack of a decent alternative.
I said "awful" for the first 30 minutes. It was strange because he looked really rusty but looked sharper in his two substitute appearances. I thought he got into the game more after that early period though. Personally, I would have taken him off instead of Bamford as Paddie always looks more likely to make something happen.
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Re: Leeds United v West Ham Utd - Match Thread

Post by danhirons »

Overman wrote: Fri Dec 11, 2020 11:33 pm The likes of Alio, Cooper, Dallas, Roberts, (more League One), Harrison, Ayling and Costa, are essentially Championship players. This is clearly starting to show now and it's hard to see where our next goal is coming from. Klich is misfiring at the moment and Rodrigo is really not suited to the No 10 role. Sadly, we need to look beyond Pablo now and try to bring a much needed creative midfielder in January. We are crying out for a natural left back, as time and time again, we are all too exposed down that side.

Eventually we will also need to look at life beyond MB, as he may well not be here next season.
Agree although I think ayling has been class and shown he's more than good enough for the prem. Coops been decent too
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Re: Leeds United v West Ham Utd - Match Thread

Post by whiteswan »

andrewjohnsmith wrote: Sat Dec 12, 2020 12:15 am I agree
What?
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Re: Leeds United v West Ham Utd - Match Thread

Post by Velotrax »

andrewjohnsmith wrote: Sat Dec 12, 2020 12:18 am Pablo on the bench was an olive branch. Roberts on before Pablo was probably because Bielsa wanted him to play as a striker. So who knows. I would have preferred Pablo on and Rodrigo up front or Pablo for Rodrigo. Still a bit questionable where Pablo stands. Tellingly, we only had one defender on the bench instead of two. He could have left Pablo out for Davis or Casey. So, it looks like he's still part of the plan.
IMHO, taking off Bamford for Roberts was a statement, that MB is in charge, but it also stated that MB has issues with players that do not toe the line, as I have said before this smacks of Pontus, now the best option on the bench tonight was Pablo, the worst was, and I don't say this lightly Roberts, who IMHO is a league 1 player
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Re: Leeds United v West Ham Utd - Match Thread

Post by andrewjohnsmith »

Overman wrote: Fri Dec 11, 2020 11:33 pm The likes of Alio, Cooper, Dallas, Roberts, (more League One), Harrison, Ayling and Costa, are essentially Championship players. This is clearly starting to show now and it's hard to see where our next goal is coming from. Klich is misfiring at the moment and Rodrigo is really not suited to the No 10 role. Sadly, we need to look beyond Pablo now and try to bring a much needed creative midfielder in January. We are crying out for a natural left back, as time and time again, we are all too exposed down that side.

Eventually we will also need to look at life beyond MB, as he may well not be here next season.
Don't necessarily agree that the players you mentioned are championship and league one players. But some are more PL squad players than PL starters. Dallas and Ayling would be an asset for most PL clubs and I keep hearing (but don't necessarily agree) people talking about Harrison for England.

Klich has had a dip the last few games, but in the first half dozen he was probably the best box to box midfielder in the premier league.

Overall though, I do agree that we need to add more quality. But we have to do it in increments. The chemistry is what makes us better than we should be right now. You can't lose that. One addition in January and two or three in the summer would be my call. It's frustrating but also entertaining at times. We'll work through it and come out better for it.
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Re: Leeds United v West Ham Utd - Match Thread

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Much talk about some of our squad being "found out". I agree but it's not altogether surprising. Nearly all of our squad have the ability to play to the standard this league requires. We've seen evidence of this on plenty of occasions already this season. The problem is they can't do it consistently and because they can't do it consistently will be the reason we will find ourselves in the bottom half of the table at the end of the season. Where in the bottom remains to be seen. In my opinion we should have enough to stay clear of trouble but this league can be unforgiving.

If you didn't think the writing was on the wall for Pablo before this game then last night surely underlined the fact. This is a great shame. Won't be the least bit surprised to see him leave in January at this rate. Last night was a game we should easily have taken a point from. You can't tell me a fully fit Pablo couldn't have had a positive influence in the second half. We needed a spark but he was left on the bench all night. Good to see Shackelton though. As for West Ham well they were nothing special but they could and should have had more but fortunately for us they had a carthorse up front in Haller (cost 45m) who seemed more interested in keeping that moody, hard-done by look on his face all night rather than posing a serious threat. Andy Carroll mk2 or what? How do these pretend strikers manage to steal a living in the best league in the world? Their goals were hardly surprising and similar goals against in our next game and the game after that and the game after that and so on will be equally unsurprising because we don't seem to have the answer to dangerous balls into the box.
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Re: Leeds United v West Ham Utd - Match Thread

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What a fooking shambles that was :evil:
Klich's first penalty attempt summed us up, weak as piss.
There's so much wrong I dunno where to start.

Continually picking Harrison, Alioski and Dallas beggars belief. I haven't seen one decent cross from any of them lately.
A blind man could see that Reece James, Werner and Bowen would have a field day down our left and they did.
We have one natural left-back in Leif Davis who could solve this, so get him on the park.

The absence of Koch and Llorente definitely weakens us defensively, but for many years now, and well before MB, we cannot defend set-pieces and seem to have no clue how to address this. This is compounded by conceding needless free-kicks and corners i.e. Harrison for their first goal. We can't stop people crossing. It's an absolute shambles that every team at any level will exploit e.g. Crawley Town in the Cup.

Our confident pressing and passing with zip seems to have evaporated. Maybe some of these guys just don't believe they belong at this level and they're dead right. We've got Bamford in good form and we can't get the ball to him? Even he typifies that physical weakness/lack of determination, never wins an aerial ball and is shrugged off like a kid. I only saw KP, Ayling and Cooper win any physical battles, we're soft.

Despite their own deficiencies Fulham, WBA, Blunts, Brighton, Nukey, et al, will be able to win physical battles and aerial duels. They'll also take full advantage of our inability to defend set-pieces. When a corner comes in the opposition has a free header every time. We took one corner yesterday that was passed back to Liam Cooper on the halfway line WTF. When we do manage to get a corner/cross over it's usually swallowed up by the goalie, or easily headed out unchallenged by a bank of 5 well marshalled defenders.

I understand we have a lack of quality in the squad, which can only be addressed if we stay up. I was confident that at the least we would stay up comfortably, but don't feel that way any more. We can't do the basics and other teams have sussed this out quickly. The near capitulation against Fulham was the shape of things to come.

That substitution was very wide of the mark, Roberts for Bamford??
Bamford's the only fella putting the ball in the net for us. To add insult to injury, as was the case against Leicester Bielsa overlooks Pablo when the match was crying out for his guile and talent.

Pablo needs to start on Wednesday, along with Leif Davis, and I'd also give Poveda a go.

Rant over :rant:
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Re: Leeds United v West Ham Utd - Match Thread

Post by 1964white »

White Riot wrote: Sat Dec 12, 2020 7:22 am What a fooking shambles that was :evil:
Klich's first penalty attempt summed us up, weak as piss.
There's so much wrong I dunno where to start.

Continually picking Harrison, Alioski and Dallas beggars belief. I haven't seen one decent cross from any of them lately.
A blind man could see that Reece James, Werner and Bowen would have a field day down our left and they did.
We have one natural left-back in Leif Davis who could solve this, so get him on the park.

The absence of Koch and Llorente definitely weakens us defensively, but for many years now, and well before MB, we cannot defend set-pieces and seem to have no clue how to address this. This is compounded by conceding needless free-kicks and corners i.e. Harrison for their first goal. We can't stop people crossing. It's an absolute shambles that every team at any level will exploit e.g. Crawley Town in the Cup.

Our confident pressing and passing with zip seems to have evaporated. Maybe some of these guys just don't believe they belong at this level and they're dead right. We've got Bamford in good form and we can't get the ball to him? Even he typifies that physical weakness/lack of determination, never wins an aerial ball and is shrugged off like a kid. I only saw KP, Ayling and Cooper win any physical battles, we're soft.

Despite their own deficiencies Fulham, WBA, Blunts, Brighton, Nukey, et al, will be able to win physical battles and aerial duels. They'll also take full advantage of our inability to defend set-pieces. When a corner comes in the opposition has a free header every time. We took one corner yesterday that was passed back to Liam Cooper on the halfway line WTF. When we do manage to get a corner/cross over it's usually swallowed up by the goalie, or easily headed out unchallenged by a bank of 5 well marshalled defenders.

I understand we have a lack of quality in the squad, which can only be addressed if we stay up. I was confident that at the least we would stay up comfortably, but don't feel that way any more. We can't do the basics and other teams have sussed this out quickly. The near capitulation against Fulham was the shape of things to come.

That substitution was very wide of the mark, Roberts for Bamford??
Bamford's the only fella putting the ball in the net for us. To add insult to injury, as was the case against Leicester Bielsa overlooks Pablo when the match was crying out for his guile and talent.

Pablo needs to start on Wednesday, along with Leif Davis, and I'd also give Poveda a go.

Rant over :rant:
Great post WR

Says it all :tup:
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Re: Leeds United v West Ham Utd - Match Thread

Post by White Riot »

1964white wrote: Sat Dec 12, 2020 7:38 am Great post WR

Says it all :tup:
Cheers 64,
I'm still fuming and in shock at how poor we were.
Very apprehensive about Newcastle, imagine that :roll:
Actually feel physically sick after watching that shite
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Re: Leeds United v West Ham Utd - Match Thread

Post by Lorimer46 »

Disappointment is probably the word I'd use to sum up last nights match. I thought it was a the type of match we should've been winning.Too many players off their game last night , far to many silly mistakes and if you can't do the basics like defending corners and free kicks you're always going to struggle to win games . Need to get back to winning ways soon before we get stuck in a rut and get drawn into a dog fight at the lower end of the table.
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Re: Leeds United v West Ham Utd - Match Thread

Post by Ron Swanson »

Until we learn how to defend set plays and also... not shoot straight into the arms of the goalie... we’ll continue to stutter.

Some of the lads aren’t up to the mark, which isn’t their fault. The manager is to blame for continually selecting them.
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