BielsaBall concern 2

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WhiteRose
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Re: BielsaBall concern 2

Post by WhiteRose »

It probably is too expensive and I hate to see people calling us naive as it implies bielsa is stupid and he isn't, he just thinks if we play well, create and take our chances we have a chance to win like at Aston villa and sheff united and nearly vs city. Problem is with the player choices and injuries we have this hasnt been happening, costa and harrison must be on borrowed time, they cant cross the ball we can all see that, yet poveda and raphina warm the bench. Robert's comes on and he isn't gonna do anything get gelhardt on the bench.

The style wont change we all know that we went through many periods like this in the champ where the same things were said and we always played the same way. Only way it would change would be a different manager and I dont think any of us want that.
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Re: BielsaBall concern 2

Post by WhiteRose »

WhiteRose wrote: Sun Nov 08, 2020 12:03 am It probably is too expansive and I hate to see people calling us naive as it implies bielsa is stupid and he isn't, he just thinks if we play well, create and take our chances we have a chance to win like at Aston villa and sheff united and nearly vs city. Problem is with the player choices and injuries we have this hasnt been happening, costa and harrison must be on borrowed time, they cant cross the ball we can all see that, yet poveda and raphina warm the bench. Robert's comes on and he isn't gonna do anything get gelhardt on the bench.

The style wont change we all know that we went through many periods like this in the champ where the same things were said and we always played the same way. Only way it would change would be a different manager and I dont think any of us want that.
Boo Radley
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Re: BielsaBall concern 2

Post by Boo Radley »

gessa wrote: Sat Nov 07, 2020 11:23 pm Why should we discuss what we've done badly after a defeat, more than what we've done well after a win

Is it just human nature?
Yes, always will be!
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Re: BielsaBall concern 2

Post by CHAPELALLMAN »

I think we have a couple of issues which need resolving fast ;

1) Teams have sussed out how to beat us quite easily. We attack nearly always down the flanks, so PL teams with better defences know that if they overload the flanks with defenders and midfielders they can snuff out our wingers and stop our F/Bs from getting beyond the midfield areas. That way they stop our high press, as the key to our high press is the F/Bs overlapping and underlapping our wingers. It's interesting that Guardiola described us as at times virtually splitting into two teams - 5 in attack and 5 in defence, with virtually no midfield. We often have have 5 players ahead of the ball, so once an attack breaks down there are acres of space for the opposition to run into with a fast counter.

This situation is really not helped by the fact that we have two wingers who are erratic and often inconsistent. Harrison is still the Harrison of 2 seasons ago - a bit of trickery with no end product and a truly awful delivery. He will probably never make it as a top class winger, yet he has started just about every game for the last season and a half. Costa often flatters only to deceive. Neither of them should be mainstays, and ideally we need to send Harrison back to City.

2) We are carrying a number of championship level players who we need to upgrade on quickly, namely ; Cooper, Ayling, Alioski, Harrison and Roberts. If Bielsa carries on with his misplaced loyalty to these players then we could be in big trouble.

On the plus side Paddy has clearly improved his finishing significantly compared to last year. He now needs to work constantly on his heading of the ball in training so that he can can provide some kind of an aerial threat as well.
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Re: BielsaBall concern 2

Post by Boo Radley »

WhiteRose wrote: Sun Nov 08, 2020 12:03 am It probably is too expensive and I hate to see people calling us naive as it implies bielsa is stupid and he isn't, he just thinks if we play well, create and take our chances we have a chance to win like at Aston villa and sheff united and nearly vs city. Problem is with the player choices and injuries we have this hasnt been happening, costa and harrison must be on borrowed time, they cant cross the ball we can all see that, yet poveda and raphina warm the bench. Robert's comes on and he isn't gonna do anything get gelhardt on the bench.

The style wont change we all know that we went through many periods like this in the champ where the same things were said and we always played the same way. Only way it would change would be a different manager and I dont think any of us want that.
No one wants a different manager and no one thinks that Bielsa is stupid. He has often acknowledged that during a game it is up to him to solve a challenge that has arisen in a game and if we lose he will take responsibility for not coming up with the solution.

The problem, or suggestion of naivety, refers to his belief in the system for ninety minutes of every game when it patently isn’t working in a given game. Also, his faith in players like Roberts coming in to save a game when it has never happened, and it can be expected not to happen in the near future either.

Roy Hodgson said after the game that he knew they would have space in behind us to play in and did that all day. In the Championship you may get away with that and out score the opposition anyway but not against teams with the likes of Zaha and Vardy. They are far more clinical than what we have played against to date.

In that situation, it is naive to suggest you will always out score these teams and just keep playing as normal. You don’t have to change completely but you could use the attacking tactic more sparingly, as in counter attack in numbers when the break is on. But having Ayling and Alioski both out of position with Zaha running at you is probably only going to end one way.

We were unlucky yesterday. We needed to shut shop and get in at halftime only one down and use the break to make the changes needed - not Roberts. Being naive here made the score line worse and stymied any realistic chance of a come back. We are super to watch but just too innocent at times.
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Re: BielsaBall concern 2

Post by lufc1304 »

gessa wrote: Sat Nov 07, 2020 7:52 pm How come we get these long drawn out posts when we lose, analysing everything that is wrong.
We win and its a short yes but yes but we were lucky there.
:clap:

Not a dig at Cjay, his analysis is usually spot on, but the fact is we are playing a style of football that is high risk and will be punished when things don't all click. And whilst we appear to have bought well, we were never going to transform the playing side in one window into a team/squad capable of playing like City or Liverpool. I'm fine with that, and the attendant likelihood of a few pastings along the way. Said it elsewhere, this season is about consolidation. Saw calls for Bielsa's head on social media yesterday, which is f**king astounding but not altogether surprising given the fickle nature of our support. Perhaps we have been conditioned toward it given how much s**t we've had to put up with over the last 16 years, but there does seem to be almost an enjoyment in focusing on the negatives around our performances. Weasel said it somewhere a while ago and I'm paraphrasing, but I'm one of those supporters who like to support. Not blindly and unquestioningly, but I temper my highs and lows with an acceptance of where we are, how far we have come but also recognising how far we still have to go. Keep the faith, all, we will be ok. ALAW
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Re: BielsaBall concern 2

Post by mothbanquet »

With Bielsaball the risk is proportionate according to the quality of the team and quality of the opposition. With some of our better players out, the scales veer in favour of the latter. However, the former will improve over time. Next season we will be much stronger, just as we were in the second Championship season.

I challenge anyone to argue that we would've fared better than we are now if we'd gotten promoted that first season, where Championship teams were capable of putting 4 past us on more than one occasion. This is exactly the same situation. Have patience and faith in the football that's brought us back to the big time. It'll keep us there for now in the short term and in the long, it will bring us glory.
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Re: BielsaBall concern 2

Post by Smudge3920 »

mothbanquet wrote: Sun Nov 08, 2020 8:44 pm With Bielsaball the risk is proportionate according to the quality of the team and quality of the opposition. With some of our better players out, the scales veer in favour of the latter. However, the former will improve over time. Next season we will be much stronger, just as we were in the second Championship season.

I challenge anyone to argue that we would've fared better than we are now if we'd gotten promoted that first season, where Championship teams were capable of putting 4 past us on more than one occasion. This is exactly the same situation. Have patience and faith in the football that's brought us back to the big time. It'll keep us there for now in the short term and in the long, it will bring us glory.
A very sound comment mate ....patience is the key
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Re: BielsaBall concern 2

Post by weasel »

All things considered just take our record in London over the last few years becuase why should we have fared better against a premiership side than we have done in recent seasons against the likes of QPR, Brentford, Millwall, Fulham etc?

It is hardly like we have gone from steamrolling opposition every week to suddenly being cr*p. We have seen some dismal runs in the middle of some great performances over the last 2 seasons as well as continually losing in London no matter how poorly or well we played.
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Re: BielsaBall concern 2

Post by Smudge3920 »

weasel wrote: Sun Nov 08, 2020 8:54 pm All things considered just take our record in London over the last few years becuase why should we have fared better against a premiership side than we have done in recent seasons against the likes of QPR, Brentford, Millwall, Fulham etc?

It is hardly like we have gone from steamrolling opposition every week to suddenly being cr*p. We have seen some dismal runs in the middle of some great performances over the last 2 seasons as well as continually losing in London no matter how poorly or well we played.
That's a fair comment mate the number of losses support it... but it is not that the teams we played are always better than us, it's a mental thing...we will break out of it sometime...( Officials are a big factor also with London clubs now with VAR to boot, its a nightmare))
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