Leeds United v Hull City - MATCH THREAD - Bielsa makes eleven changes

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Re: Leeds United v Hull City - MATCH THREAD - Bielsa makes eleven changes

Post by 1964white »

Boo Radley wrote: Wed Sep 16, 2020 11:20 pm This game may be a turning point for some players and possibly an accelerant for our transfer policy. Bielsa seems hurt by this and we could see players moving on, out on loans or sold. It’s clear that our dependable strength in the first team squad now is based on probably 17 players in total (holding faith with Alioski, Shackleton, Casilla and Poveda). That’s very thin. Quite simply we need quality additions. Most of those that played tonight are not good enough yet, or may never be.
I hope so Boo, if some of those players struggled to make a position their own in the championship, why would they be good enough to play in the premier league? it makes no sense whatsoever!

Typical of Marcelo to accept the blame & responsibility for that defeat, that's the man he is :clap:
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Re: Leeds United v Hull City - MATCH THREAD - Bielsa makes eleven changes

Post by mothbanquet »

1964white wrote: Thu Sep 17, 2020 9:30 am I hope so Boo, if some of those players struggled to make a position their own in the championship, why would they be good enough to play in the premier league? it makes no sense whatsoever!

Typical of Marcelo to accept the blame & responsibility for that defeat, that's the man he is :clap:
Very true Leon, it's just a sad fact that we're not rich enough to completely overhaul the squad to the quality we need, it's going to be a long continuous process over several windows - and we need quality in the first team as the highest priority. Only then will the underperformers be moved on, until then we need the cover.
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Re: Leeds United v Hull City - MATCH THREAD - Bielsa makes eleven changes

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lufc1304 wrote: Thu Sep 17, 2020 8:15 am Has anyone else on here actually followed the Haribo cup over the last few seasons? The big boys, with massive squads and the funds to keep massive squads and compete on several fronts, play their fringe players until it gets to the sharp and then, more times than not, throw the big hitters in for the semi/final. The idea that we've thrown away the chance of silverware is laughable, imo. Yes, the performance was poor and some 1st team squad players disappointing, but with 11 changes to the team that started on Saturday, I thought it was always likely to be a struggle. Last season, our focus was on getting to the Prem. This season has to be about staying there. With a small squad, something Bielsa likes and wants, then cups invariably have to be sacrificed. That's just the way it is. I'm always disappointed when we lose, and it seems we were particularly poor last night, but cups are not a priority. If we can become an established Prem side again with a squad that reflects that, then yes, let's have a tilt at the cups but until then, we have to pick our battles.

I do agree with the majority that this has highlighted the need for a little more quality in certain positions in the 1st team squad, but as some pointed out, we might be forced to play one or two of last night's team due to injury, suspension or loss of form, but it would take something catastrophic to have to include five or six of them. As such, we shouldn't be too concerned. A bad night for our second string, but no need to reach for the blue rope just yet.
Nick, so you are saying we are incapable of consolidating a place in the PL & going on a cup run in the same season

The big boys have stronger 2nd teams than ourselves

Not only the top six teams goal is to win the PL they also have matches to play in the European competitions plus finishing in the top four for Champions League place to think about.

We'll have 40 games to play this season compared to 49 games last season, the top six may play upto 60 games pending how far they go in the cup rounds. One match a week & we are resting players after our first PL game in sixteen years, bearing in mind our first team players are not match-fit yet due to the current circumstances !

If you watched that game last night you'd be thoroughly disappointed
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Re: Leeds United v Hull City - MATCH THREAD - Bielsa makes eleven changes

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lufc1304 wrote: Thu Sep 17, 2020 8:15 am Has anyone else on here actually followed the Haribo cup over the last few seasons? The big boys, with massive squads and the funds to keep massive squads and compete on several fronts, play their fringe players until it gets to the sharp and then, more times than not, throw the big hitters in for the semi/final. The idea that we've thrown away the chance of silverware is laughable, imo. Yes, the performance was poor and some 1st team squad players disappointing, but with 11 changes to the team that started on Saturday, I thought it was always likely to be a struggle. Last season, our focus was on getting to the Prem. This season has to be about staying there. With a small squad, something Bielsa likes and wants, then cups invariably have to be sacrificed. That's just the way it is. I'm always disappointed when we lose, and it seems we were particularly poor last night, but cups are not a priority. If we can become an established Prem side again with a squad that reflects that, then yes, let's have a tilt at the cups but until then, we have to pick our battles.

I do agree with the majority that this has highlighted the need for a little more quality in certain positions in the 1st team squad, but as some pointed out, we might be forced to play one or two of last night's team due to injury, suspension or loss of form, but it would take something catastrophic to have to include five or six of them. As such, we shouldn't be too concerned. A bad night for our second string, but no need to reach for the blue rope just yet.
Totally agree with this Nick.
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Re: Leeds United v Hull City - MATCH THREAD - Bielsa makes eleven changes

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Have to agree with that, one game in and resting players.
Players that some on here say require time to adapt so a perfect opportunity missed. Bit silly really.
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Re: Leeds United v Hull City - MATCH THREAD - Bielsa makes eleven changes

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Truly awful last night and no excuses for such a performance. It clearly showed that players such as Douglas, Roberts, Kiko, and to an extent Alioski are not Premiership material. There is some concern that our U23s side are not really producing much stand out talent. I guess now we can focus on consilidating our place in PL, hopefully a few more quality additions are on their way in.
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Re: Leeds United v Hull City - MATCH THREAD - Bielsa makes eleven changes

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1964white wrote: Thu Sep 17, 2020 9:50 am Nick, so you are saying we are incapable of consolidating a place & going on a cup run in the same season

The big boys have stronger 2nd teams than ourselves

Not only the top six teams goal is to win the PL they also have matches to play in the European competitions plus finishing in the top four for Champions League place to think about.

We'll have 40 games to play this season compared to 49 games last season, the top six may play upto 60 games pending how far they go in the cup rounds. One match a week & we are resting players after our first PL game in sixteen years, bearing in mind our first team players are not match-fit yet due to the current circumstances !

If you watched that game last night you'd be thoroughly disappointed
I did watch the game 64 and yes, a win and better performance would have made me happier. But we arent a Chelsea or a Citeh (yet) who can field two top notch teams anytime, we fielded mainly our kids last night. I was disappointed we didnt field our first team players, but, I would rather us stay in the premier league and not win a trophy, especially the Mickey mouse one, rather than parade one round the city of Leeds as a Championship side again. Also, this loss might just bring us back down to earth after all the hype and plaudits after the Liverpool game....
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Re: Leeds United v Hull City - MATCH THREAD - Bielsa makes eleven changes

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Mick Jones shoulder wrote: Thu Sep 17, 2020 9:59 am Have to agree with that, one game in and resting players.
Players that some on here say require time to adapt so a perfect opportunity missed. Bit silly really.
Crazy imo!

Can't believe others think it was ok, we're all have different opinions I suppose!
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Re: Leeds United v Hull City - MATCH THREAD - Bielsa makes eleven changes

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1964white wrote: Thu Sep 17, 2020 10:05 am

Can't believe others think it was ok, we're all have different opinions I suppose!
We do, that's what makes this forum so special Leon :)
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Re: Leeds United v Hull City - MATCH THREAD - Bielsa makes eleven changes

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whiteswan wrote: Thu Sep 17, 2020 10:04 am I did watch the game 64 and yes, a win and better performance would have made me happier. But we arent a Chelsea or a Citeh (yet) who can field two top notch teams anytime, we fielded mainly our kids last night. I was disappointed we didnt field our first team players, but, I would rather us stay in the premier league and not win a trophy, especially the Mickey mouse one, rather than parade one round the city of Leeds as a Championship side again. Also, this loss might just bring us back down to earth after all the hype and plaudits after the Liverpool game....
Revie had no fear when we were promoted in 1964, much tougher then

Smaller squads
No subs
More games
Muddy pitches.

I agree Swannie staying in the PL is imperative to our future & has to be our main priority, sorry our only priority.

I should have learned my lesson by now after my experience at Sutton three or four years ago, a day in my life I won't get back. I won't be taking this seasons FA Cup 3rd round fixture seriously that's for sure!
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Re: Leeds United v Hull City - MATCH THREAD - Bielsa makes eleven changes

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Not bothered were out of cup but very disappointed in the manner. We can ship 12 or 14 first teamers around the world to play meaningless international games during a pandemic and we cant play them at Elland Road in a cup game for fear of tiring them. How can that be right. Can someone explain what any of the young lads will have learned from that
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Re: Leeds United v Hull City - MATCH THREAD - Bielsa makes eleven changes

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Eireleeds1 wrote: Thu Sep 17, 2020 10:23 am Not bothered were out of cup but very disappointed in the manner. We can ship 12 or 14 first teamers around the world to play meaningless international games during a pandemic and we cant play them at Elland Road in a cup game for fear of tiring them. How can that be right. Can someone explain what any of the young lads will have learned from that
Good point Eire :tup:
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Re: Leeds United v Hull City - MATCH THREAD - Bielsa makes eleven changes

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Eireleeds1 wrote: Thu Sep 17, 2020 10:23 am Not bothered were out of cup but very disappointed in the manner.
This.
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Re: Leeds United v Hull City - MATCH THREAD - Bielsa makes eleven changes

Post by lufc1304 »

1964white wrote: Thu Sep 17, 2020 9:50 am Nick, so you are saying we are incapable of consolidating a place in the PL & going on a cup run in the same season

The big boys have stronger 2nd teams than ourselves

Not only the top six teams goal is to win the PL they also have matches to play in the European competitions plus finishing in the top four for Champions League place to think about.

We'll have 40 games to play this season compared to 49 games last season, the top six may play upto 60 games pending how far they go in the cup rounds. One match a week & we are resting players after our first PL game in sixteen years, bearing in mind our first team players are not match-fit yet due to the current circumstances !

If you watched that game last night you'd be thoroughly disappointed
Yes, Leon, I believe that is the reality of our situation. As I said, the big boys have the luxury of big, well paid squads full of internationals who can compete on more than one front. We're back in the Prem after 16 years away with a small squad and we have to be realistic about what we can achieve and what our goals are. Yes, a cup run would be nice, but would we be so enthused about it if a key first teamer or two were injured during cup games and we then struggled in the league? I doubt it. In an ideal world, we would be putting out a strong side in all competitions and in with a genuine chance of some silverware, but I think that's a bridge too far at this point. No-one likes losing, but I'd be a whole lot more disappointed (and concerned) if the team we put out against Liverpool had struggled against lower league opposition. Each to their own, of course, but my only concern this season is consolidating our place in the Prem. Until we are established and can afford to pack a squad with top players, anything else is just window dressing. That's not to suggest that we shouldn't be ambitious, but we have to accept that we are currently playing catch up with even the mediocre also rans in the top tier.
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Re: Leeds United v Hull City - MATCH THREAD - Bielsa makes eleven changes

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It's not just the money that we need to pay two first teams. We need a schedule to keep two first teams happy. That means European football. If we played 50+ games, we'd need two first teams. We were only ever going to play 40 to 45 games max. That justifies Bielsa's need for a lean squad. All we have room for is 18 1st teamers plus an U-23 squad
We've been through it all together. And we've had our ups and downs
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Re: Leeds United v Hull City - MATCH THREAD - Bielsa makes eleven changes

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I think the point is the quality of players brought in, if a second string side of a (prem side) can't compete with a league one side it's a poor show. I think it was the lack of attacking idea's that was most concerning.
Result was immaterial, the performance was a shambles.
I'm sure we will be a completely different animal Saturday. :tup:
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Re: Leeds United v Hull City - MATCH THREAD - Bielsa makes eleven changes

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whiteswan wrote: Thu Sep 17, 2020 9:55 am Totally agree with this Nick.
So do I, excellent well reasoned post..
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Re: Leeds United v Hull City - MATCH THREAD - Bielsa makes eleven changes

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Mick Jones shoulder wrote: Thu Sep 17, 2020 1:06 pm I think the point is the quality of players brought in, if a second string side of a (prem side) can't compete with a league one side it's a poor show
Don't forget - when teams like Manu and Manc have thrown out 2nd strings in the Caraboa Cup they have much bigger squads. They have European football to play too. So they can afford to have a strong 2nd string because they play 50+ games every year. We don't play that many games and can't afford to play our 17th to 25th best players as much as they can

If you want a more realistic comparison, look at Southampton. They played their first team against Brentfrod yesterday and lost. That shows they don't have a back up XI they have any faith in
We've been through it all together. And we've had our ups and downs
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Re: Leeds United v Hull City - MATCH THREAD - Bielsa makes eleven changes

Post by White Riot »

Last night's performance was a shambles.

I still believe we would have been much better served by playing most of the first team to improve their match fitness.

I'm mystified as to why Koch wasn't played when he needs minutes and to get used to our defence.

If this serves to make our management aware that we have a real lack of quality outside the first eleven, then that will be the most positive outcome.

Hopefully, Orta will move on Douglas, Roberts, Alioski, etc and get some of the young uns out on loan.

I realise we can't overhaul the whole squad in one transfer window, but if we can get a few more quality players in I'll be happy.

If injury prone players like Douglas and Roberts can't hack it under Bielsa then they need shifted elsewhere.

The first team showed their mettle at Anfield, but injuries and suspensions will mean we're counting on those who were selected last night to perform in the Prem.

When you can make Hull, Wills and McCann look like geniuses then we don't have any quality in depth.

Praying RDP and at least another quality CB will be signed.
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Re: Leeds United v Hull City - MATCH THREAD - Bielsa makes eleven changes

Post by Mick Jones shoulder »

Brentford aren't league one.
What I'm saying is don't get wrapped up in the current media love in. We are decent but nowhere as good as is we are being portrayed imo. (The squad as a whole)
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