Should Statues Be Dismantled ?

[1964white]

I read the statue of Robert Baden Powell (Founder of the Scout movement) on Poole quay is to be taken down

Is it right historical figures & monuments are dismantled ?

[Irish Ian]

Seems everybody was a racist back in the day.

[HarryofOz]

I don't have a problem with it.

Lot's of statues around the world get torn down when there are regime or societal changes.

[1964white]

Just feels like British history is being tossed out of the window

[mav]

Moved perhaps - museums can have them and give a true account.

[WhiteRose]

Alot of the writers or stars of shows that have recently been declared racist have the luxury of still being alive to excuse themselves and say that they wouldn't have made the same program today. This seems to be accepted and their actions forgiven. Historical figures dont get the benefit to see society through a multicultural lens and obviously cant offer their apologies now,regardless of the good they did they are just labelled racist forever now because of the way they behaved in a time when society pretty much accepted this point of view. I dont think the removal of a few statues of people who got rich through slavery threatens britain's culture though so not too bothered about the bristol incident for example.

I do worry there is a storm coming the blm movement, metropolitan police and MSM seems to have given BAME groups carte blanche and as in all races there are plenty of bad eggs out there who we now see assaulting police going about their work and destroying statues and properties at will. The silent moderate majority and the quieter than usual far right mob in many countries have not had much to say yet but i do think the media led by the bbc are for whatever reason trying to whip up tensions and there will be a point when it boils over - though i hope im wrong and we can work together towards a more equal society without getting fixated on the past.

[herefordbornleedsboy]

Just feels like British history is being tossed out of the window

I will tackle this as a History teacher. I can see your viewpoint and understand, but arguably, we ignore A LOT of British history anyway. In the classroom (I can attest to this) we discuss the American Civil Rights movement but very rarely look at the similar things that happened here. Similarly with the slave trade, Britains' role in it is often overlooked. Kids from BAME communities are very under represented in the history classroom which is something we as educators are desperately trying to rectify. I will admit my own part in this ignorance (I had no idea there were black people in the UK during the Tudor Period until this year) I think its important for the statues to remain but similar to most on here I would say their place is in a museum rather than on the streets. Admittedly everyone who is commemorated by statue are normally not commemorated for the unsavoury things they have done in their life, and we are of course looking at this through a modern lens.

[John in Louisiana]

We're having this same argument here in the USA over the removal of statues of heroes of the Confederacy.

Here the issue seems to be much more cut and dried as Confederate generals and politicians - on top of being virulent racists and supporters of slavery - were traitors to our country. The statues were put up in the aftermath of the war as a clear message to all black people that, although the Civil War was lost and slavery had been abolished, their place in society would always be that of inferiors.

There are those here who are arguing in favor of keeping those statues as a reminder of our history, but they are using this argument only to couch their racism in semi-respectable clothing. We still have statues and monuments to our slave-holding founders (like Washington and Jefferson), but it's understood that they are being honored in spite of, not because of their support for slavery. Their contributions to the founding of our country were significant enough that we honor them. No such argument can be made for honoring Robert E. Lee or Jefferson Davis.

I imagine the issue is a lot more difficult one to deal with in the UK, where there is no single historical event quite so wrenching as the American Civil War (the UK having the good sense to never countenance slavery). Go back a few hundred years and try and find someone who wasn't a racist, no matter how enlightened. How do we distinguish between those whose racism we excuse and those we don't? Would we take down a statue of Pitt the Elder if we found out he was a racist?

[1964white]

Some interesting thoughts here!

As long as they don't pull down the Revie/Bremner statues down

[1964white]

Thankfully I haven’t heard anything controversial enough to ever justify that about these 2 legends.

If that changed I’d be happy to see them placed somewhere more respectful.

Thankfully I can’t see that happening.

It's weird I never think of the atrocities committed by historical figures when I'm viewing statues, I'll probably look at them in a different light now especially if I know their history

[The Subhuman]

Do Fulham still have the Michael Jackson one

[gessa]

Going to be interesting to see how they dismantle the Pyramids.

[hector]

and stonehenge

[Clacton White]

It's weird I never think of the atrocities committed by historical figures when I'm viewing statues, I'll probably look at them in a different light now especially if I know their history

But maybe the statues need to stay so people can ask the questions . If you visit somewhere and there's nothing , it doesn't spark the curiosity . These people were of their times . If questions aren't asked then nothing is learnt .

[hector]

I actually find it incredulous that people in history are being judged on todays 'enlightened' standards

Will the Alfred the Great statue in Winchester be next because he hated 'foreigners'?

What really grips my s**t is the fact that a perfectly good episode of Fawlty towers is now withdrawn................

How can people learn from history if history is removed or changed??

[1964white]

I actually find it incredulous that people in history are being judged on todays 'enlightened' standards

Will the Alfred the Great statue in Winchester be next because he hated 'foreigners'?

What really grips my s**t is the fact that a perfectly good episode of Fawlty towers is now withdrawn................

How can people learn from history if history is removed or changed??

I doubt any other country would remove it's history, the residents of Poole are unhappy about the imminent dismantling of the Robert Baden-Powell statue so much so they have a round the clock security watch to protect the monument

We're also not allowed to watch other TV programmes I see, we now live in a humourless country

[liggy]

Yes we should pull everything down Willie Carr in the keel row went on to play for Coventry city when he was dead for a 145 years

[rich_leeds64]

Think this sums it up.

The minority are getting what they want by our weak leadership and soft policing. What these people don’t realise is tourists flock to the UK to Visit historic buildings , view statues and learn about our history whether it was good or bad. The whole world has been shaped on power and struggle so to gradually destroy and remove history is very sad.

I wonder if the Italians are flattening Rome because of its past.

As for Fawlty Towers... I’m speechless. I’ve always said that if a TV programme offends you then don’t watch it.. simple as that. Once again the minority telling the majority what to do.

[Clacton White]

Fawlty Towers episode banned is absolutely ridiculous IMO , its humour at its best , one of Britains finest moments of humour IMO .Where does it end ? If you think about it , anyone could find something offensive - I mean people could find Morecombe and Wise offensive and get that banned from repeats .
Go back to 60's and 70's comedy , Alf Garnett , On the Buses , Love thy neighbour , Mind your language .......... there are racist or sexist elements in all of these , some more prevalent than others but what people then and probably now didn't realise was that the writers were doing it to show the stupidity of the situation and the bigotry of the people concerned rather than make the people involved to be hero's or similar .... by banning these it also plays into the bigot's view that its pandering to minorities .... the funny thing is that I think a lot of the minorities also found it quite funny too . Take " love thy neighbour " , the racist neighbour NEVER came out on top in any of the situations . Garnet was made to look a nasty vindictive old man . To me though , the Fawlty Towers thing is just farcical . It was Basil Fawlty just being a loony ...... I mean , I've done it myself abroad in Germany in the 70's and 80's while on exchange visits .....and we all said " don't mention the war " . There could as I said , be offense to absolutely anyone in a situation at some stage , no matter how innocent it may seem .

[Clacton White]

UKTV apparently now backtracked and the Fawlty Towers episode is back .