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rab_rant
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Re: Coronavirus

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Smudge3920 wrote:It is certainly a conundrum Rab... I guess at the end of the day it becomes a personal choice... Do you believe science and work towards prevention as much as possible until a vaccine is available... or do you believe the conspiracy theorists and ignore advice from those who know, or are better equipped to find the answers?...
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Re: Coronavirus

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hector wrote:follow the tin foil hatters every time.....

It makes for a much more exciting time

:mrgreen:
And on and and so it goes you don't know what you've got till its gone.

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Re: Coronavirus

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hector wrote: Thu Sep 03, 2020 7:04 am follow the tin foil hatters every time.....

It makes for a much more exciting time

:mrgreen:
:rol:
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Re: Coronavirus

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Smudge3920 wrote:It is certainly a conundrum Rab... I guess at the end of the day it becomes a personal choice... Do you believe science and work towards prevention as much as possible until a vaccine is available... or do you believe the conspiracy theorists and ignore advice from those who know, or are better equipped to find the answers?...
Prof Neil Ferguson's statistical work on Covid19 which was responsible for the implementation of the lockdown in the UK has been judged as being seriously flawed. He has resigned as an adviser to the government because he broke his own recommendations...

Bad science leads to bad lives.

Ferguson has a long history of getting things wrong.Image

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Re: Coronavirus

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Six hard questions Prof Ferguson should have been asked about all of his failed predictions.

Bad science will hurt you... just ask Josef Mengele

https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/six ... d-be-asked

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Re: Coronavirus

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rab_rant wrote: Thu Sep 03, 2020 7:26 am Prof Neil Ferguson's statistical work on Covid19 which was responsible for the implementation of the lockdown in the UK has been judged as being seriously flawed. He has resigned as an adviser to the government because he broke his own recommendations...

Bad science leads to bad lives.

Ferguson has a long history of getting things wrong.Image

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So he got it wrong, there is a lot of good science out there also... as I said Rab, ... personal choice obviously you have made yours, I would never try to dissuade you of your choice or opinion....Personally as I am neither a scientist, Virus expert, or Doctor I will continue to read and try to make the best decisions for me and my family... What I will not do is post sci fi scenarios, or conspiracy theories, nor papers by experts. As I am not in a position to refute or confirm them. All I can do is digest and try to make the right decision.

Canada did not impose lockdown or restrictions until way after the UK, and even now they are limited. But yet we are shown as having one of the lowest infection rates in the world, considering we share a major border with the hotspot of the world, kind of makes you wonder.
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Re: Coronavirus

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Smudge3920 wrote: So he got it wrong, there is a lot of good science out there also... as I said Rab, ... personal choice obviously you have made yours, I would never try to dissuade you of your choice or opinion....Personally as I am neither a scientist, Virus expert, or Doctor I will continue to read and try to make the best decisions for me and my family... What I will not do is post sci fi scenarios, or conspiracy theories, nor papers by experts. As I am not in a position to refute or confirm them. All I can do is digest and try to make the right decision.

Canada did not impose lockdown or restrictions until way after the UK, and even now they are limited. But yet we are shown as having one of the lowest infection rates in the world, considering we share a major border with the hotspot of the world, kind of makes you wonder.
Science does however influence government policy and government policy influences people's lives... by setting limitations on what they can and can't do.

Civil liberties are being eroded and freedom of speech denied. If you post a video on youtube that has the mere mention of Covid and it does not follow the government guidlines then it will be deleted. Any form of critisism is brushed aside.

But what is more concerning is the personal attacks on non mask wearers who might be perceived as endangering the general populace by their behaviour. Even on MOT going into a pub for a meal or going for a walk on the coast in the fresh air is regarded as rebellious and irresponsible.

Reminds me somehow of the Russian police state where neighbor informs against neighbor and there is then the midnight knock at the door and it is off to the gulag for breaking the rules.

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Re: Coronavirus

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The traffic light system isn't science fiction, it's what they have in China. A medical passport system which controls where you are allowed to go and who you are allowed to meet.

Bear in mind, China has been widely praised for its 'handling' of the epidemic. Whilst such systems are active anywhere in the world, I don't think there is any room for complacency.

That isn't being conspiratorial, it's trying to be aware of the implications of digital surveillance technology, and the power of corporate interests to drive policy.

Technology is currently advancing faster than legislation can keep up to protect civil liberties and personal privacy. Corporate influence is at an unprecedented level.

An organisation like GlaxoSmithKlein can afford to write off billions in fines and damages for malpractice, because its profits are so vast. This effectively makes it unaccountable.
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Re: Coronavirus

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Some of the scientists who have been censored by YouTube and are not allowed to express their opinions.

John Ioannidis, Professor of Medicine, Stanford University

Scott Atlas, Stanford University

Karol Sikora, dean of Buckingham U medical school

Prof Detlef Krüger, virologist, Berlin

Prof Johan Giesecke, former EU chief epidemiologist

Michael Levitt, Nobel Prize laureate, biologist

Prof Christopher Kuhbandner

Prof Carl Heneghan, Oxford University

Prof Sucharit Bhakdi, microbiology, Mainz 

Prof Mikko Paunio, epidemiologist, Finland

Prof Dan Yamin, infectious disease, Tel Aviv University

Prof Karin Moelling, virology, U of Zurich

Professor Klaus Püschel, forensic medicine

Dr. Wolfgang Wodarg, physician, Germany



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Re: Coronavirus

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So who is influencing who ?
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Re: Coronavirus

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The legal history of GSK makes interesting reading:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/GlaxoSmithKline
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Re: Coronavirus

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SaraM wrote: Thu Sep 03, 2020 8:51 am The legal history of GSK makes interesting reading:

Indeed Sara... this thread is as far removed from football as can be lol... however, the very arguments being presented are really Capitalism V Socialism. Yet it appears neither is supported. I wont post graphs relating the definitions of both. It is well known that the corruption in the pharmaceutical corporation world is as well established as the corruption in the the EU headquarters in Belgium. I left out communism due to it being utopian as opposed to an economic system . So where does that leave us?
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Re: Coronavirus

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what is the difference between capitalism and communism?

Under capitalism man exploits man but under communism is the opposite way around.

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Re: Coronavirus

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My personal opinion is that we need a reset in our relationship with the natural world. Any economic/ value system, left or right, which endorses unrestrained exploitation is going to create enormous problems; not just in terms of resources, inequality etc, but in the way we experience ourselves as human beings.

Viruses are just DNA particles which exist by the million in all life forms. They play a vital role in accelerated evolution when a particular species or habitat is under pressure. They multiply to provide the raw material for genetic change; nature does not leave this process to the chance of random mutation.

They can become pathogenic when they transfer from animals to humans whose immune system is not adequate to integrate them. Known depressors of human immunity are the stresses from poverty, inequality, meaningless work, displacement, war, poor diet, overuse of antibiotics and steroids, the list goes on. Essentially, we do not die from the virus, we die from our immune deficiency which enables it to manifest as a disease.

This thinking should be at the heart of the conversation around preventing future pandemics, but all we hear about is the need for vaccination. Who is driving this narrative?

Capitalism is not going to produce solutions to the problems it creates if they threaten the interests of the wealthy and powerful, who benefit from, and perpetuate, the system. That isn't a conspiracy, it's just the world we live in. It needs to change.
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Re: Coronavirus

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Aging and ultimately death is the inability of the DNA to repair itself.

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Re: Coronavirus

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Vaccines have totally eradicated smallpox (also rinderpest, which infects cattle, which, unless vegetarian we need). We have also got very close to eradicating, polio, diptheria, bacterial influenza, measles, mumps, rubella and tetanus. Are you advocating Sara, that we stop all vaccine research and let nature take its course?

And I agree an economic system will not produce solutions to problems perish the thought, no that problem is also on us.
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Re: Coronavirus

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Interesting you should bring up medical passports. In Finland you can now get a Fit2Fly certificate at for 236 € a pop.Image

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Re: Coronavirus

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Now that seems like a scam by the Finnish air authorities to me... At the present time a corana virus test only shows if you are negative at the time of testing.... Also, I think (all) certainly Canada, countries still require 14 days isolation upon arrival anyway.
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Re: Coronavirus

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Smudge3920 wrote:Now that seems like a scam by the Finnish air authorities to me... At the present time a corana virus test only shows if you are negative at the time of testing.... Also, I think (all) certainly Canada, countries still require 14 days isolation upon arrival anyway.
mammon opertunism and privilege.

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Re: Coronavirus

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rab_rant wrote: Thu Sep 03, 2020 5:00 pm mammon opertunism and privilege.

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I have to be honest Rab I struggle sometime to understand your meaning... as you use opportunism and privilege in the sentence , I will assume you are meaning it is a way for those who can afford it to be exempt any rules upon landing in another country... If thats the case I assure you that will not work in Canada for sure, apart from the exemption's stated by the government upon landing...
All passengers are required to isolate for 14 days , they have to supply the address of a family member or friend they will be staying with, and be taken to that address immediately, they will be checked on to ensure they meet the 14 day isolation, should they not have an address or a family member to stay with the authorities will supply them with accommodation at their (Travellers) own expense.
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