2019/20 Transfer Rumours & Discussion Thread

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Cjay
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Re: 2019/20 Transfer Rumours & Discussion Thread

Post by Cjay »

Irish Ian wrote: Thu May 23, 2019 5:27 pm While we all would like to have available all our young prospects the truth is that we will always be a selling club.

If selling Clarke allowed the bossman to stay and build a squad who would contend next season then it would be a small price to pay.
The owner could cover the £10mil and show some ambition? :duno:

Or concentrate on removing all the dead wood he has allowed the DOF to bring in over the last 2 years?

I think Bielsa would be furious tbh, he clearly rates Clarke the most of all our young players.

We start selling players he likes and not a cat in hells chance he stays :(

I rate Clarke a lot and think it would be a mistake, kid will be a first 11 player for us next season if he stays.

Rather see us sell others like Dallas, Forshaw, Cooper, Roofe, Berardi etc.
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Re: 2019/20 Transfer Rumours & Discussion Thread

Post by SG90 »

When was the last time we produced a player like Clarke, Kewell? He's a generational talent and we won't have one like him again for a while. £10m is insulting.
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Re: 2019/20 Transfer Rumours & Discussion Thread

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As I say until we see if Clarke can hit the heights again we won't know whether £10m is hugely underpriced or vastly overpriced.
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Re: 2019/20 Transfer Rumours & Discussion Thread

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Cjay wrote: Thu May 23, 2019 5:51 pm The owner could cover the £10mil and show some ambition? :duno:

Or concentrate on removing all the dead wood he has allowed the DOF to bring in over the last 2 years?

I think Bielsa would be furious tbh, he clearly rates Clarke the most of all our young players.

We start selling players he likes and not a cat in hells chance he stays :(

I rate Clarke a lot and think it would be a mistake, kid will be a first 11 player for us next season if he stays.

Rather see us sell others like Dallas, Forshaw, Cooper, Roofe, Berardi etc.
Wouldn't agree to 10M no way but the fact remains that we need to balance the books.

First saving I would make is to get rid of Orta. Next I would cut our player roster currently sitting at 31 in the current squad and 22 on loan. There has to be 30M locked up in those loanees
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Re: 2019/20 Transfer Rumours & Discussion Thread

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dezzy wrote: Thu May 23, 2019 5:35 pm 10million for Clarke is the bare minimum, a price a club who are struggling would take. 15m would be fair, 10m upfront.
What would they be getting and if your job was to bring players into a football club would you pay 15 M for him?
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Re: 2019/20 Transfer Rumours & Discussion Thread

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weasel wrote: Thu May 23, 2019 7:00 pm As I say until we see if Clarke can hit the heights again we won't know whether £10m is hugely underpriced or vastly overpriced.
They can afford to gamble and take the hit with the tv money and Champions League revenue, we can't.
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Re: 2019/20 Transfer Rumours & Discussion Thread

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Really can't see how an unproven 18 yr old can be worth £20 million. He had a handful of exciting sub appearances, and that's it. Even then, he only really had one move, which was easily nullified once he'd been sussed out. £10 mil would be an insanely good deal on the back of that.
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Re: 2019/20 Transfer Rumours & Discussion Thread

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Irish Ian wrote: Thu May 23, 2019 7:00 pm Wouldn't agree to 10M no way but the fact remains that we need to balance the books.

First saving I would make is to get rid of Orta. Next I would cut our player roster currently sitting at 31 in the current squad and 22 on loan. There has to be 30M locked up in those loanees
I'm torn on Orta after all he helped identify Harvey Barnes, Harry Wilson, Matej Vydra, Dan James etc as targets, is it his fault we didnt get them or was it funds, if it was funds then that isnt his fault, he isnt perfect but he can only work with what he has available.

Clearly has wasted some money but he isn't exactly given a goldmine to work with.

If we need to balance the books then we need to look to ship out the deadwood, or players like Roofe depending on contract situation.

Clarke only turned 18 mid season.

Spurs were willing to pay £25mil for Grealish.

We should demand that for Clarke, while Grealish is more developed he is 5 years older.

Grealish during the 2012/2013 season was the same ages as Clarke, he was doing nothing, youth team player.

Following season he went to league 1 and had a decent season with 5 goals and 7 assists (far less productive then our own Mallik Wilks though).

Clarke has all the potential in the world and that is what Spurs are paying for, what he might become not what he is and we should value him that way.

I dont want Clarke to go, if he goes for less then £20mil then that will be very poor business imo. Spurs need to pay the going rate for potential.

But ideally we keep Jack as a show of intent to Bielsa who clearly rates him a lot.
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Re: 2019/20 Transfer Rumours & Discussion Thread

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SaraM wrote: Thu May 23, 2019 7:36 pm Really can't see how an unproven 18 yr old can be worth £20 million. He had a handful of exciting sub appearances, and that's it. Even then, he only really had one move, which was easily nullified once he'd been sussed out. £10 mil would be an insanely good deal on the back of that.
Clubs pay through the nose for potential these days.

Despite all the appearances, Clarke's time on the pitch amounted to 9 games exactly almost (810ish minutes). He scored 2 and got 2 assists and with minutes played taken into account he was creating 1.8 chances per game (only Pablo and Ali who both took set pieces averaged more).

Clarke has all the potential in the world and when you break it down he was one of our most creative and threatening players despite only turning 18 mid season.
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Re: 2019/20 Transfer Rumours & Discussion Thread

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Irrespective of whether £10m, £15m or £20m is the correct valuation, we definitely need to hold on to players like Clarke. Bielsa thrives on improving young players anyway, and this lad has it in spades. The potential is there for all to see, and the fact that Spurs are sniffing round tells you all you need to know.

Keep him.
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Re: 2019/20 Transfer Rumours & Discussion Thread

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Cjay wrote: Thu May 23, 2019 7:51 pm he was one of our most creative and threatening players despite only turning 18 mid season.
And then he wasn't.

It still seems to me that we take the bigger risk in keeping him, certainly in terms of the side we will be building for next season. We don't have the luxury of thinking in terms of 'potential', and ultimately he is only worth what someone is willing to pay.

Put it this way, if at the start of last season someone had said you can have 2 goals or 10 million quid, which would you have taken?
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Re: 2019/20 Transfer Rumours & Discussion Thread

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One of Roofe, Jansson, Phillips or Clarke will go this summer, I'm certain. I would choose Roofe out of all of those tbh, as he has a year left, but I think it will be either Pontus or Clarke sadly.
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Re: 2019/20 Transfer Rumours & Discussion Thread

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SaraM wrote: Thu May 23, 2019 8:08 pm And then he wasn't.

It still seems to me that we take the bigger risk in keeping him, certainly in terms of the side we will be building for next season. We don't have the luxury of thinking in terms of 'potential', and ultimately he is only worth what someone is willing to pay.

Put it this way, if at the start of last season someone had said you can have 2 goals or 10 million quid, which would you have taken?
Everything is a risk though.

Say we sell him for £10mil and then in 5 years he is an England international worth £80mil and we are still in this league having squandered the money, how would you feel?

We have sold our best prospects for years and years, I'd much rather see Jack Clarke wearing the number 11 shirt next season and being given a chance then take £10mil now and enter the transfer lottery.

At the rate he was scoring and assisting during his limited time on the pitch he would be hitting double figures in terms of goals and assists like Pablo did over the course of a season.

He is older now, has MBs support, how much better would he be with a full pre season behind him.

Spurs, Liverpool and Man City see something in him but he isnt good enough for us to give a proper chance to?
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Re: 2019/20 Transfer Rumours & Discussion Thread

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Denman wrote: Thu May 23, 2019 8:07 pm Irrespective of whether £10m, £15m or £20m is the correct valuation, we definitely need to hold on to players like Clarke. Bielsa thrives on improving young players anyway, and this lad has it in spades. The potential is there for all to see, and the fact that Spurs are sniffing round tells you all you need to know.

Keep him.
This :tup:

Improving players is what MB does, if MB sees something in Clarke (forget Spurs or whoever) if MB wants Clarke to stay then he should be kept no matter what the price.
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Re: 2019/20 Transfer Rumours & Discussion Thread

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Cjay wrote: Thu May 23, 2019 9:09 pm Spurs, Liverpool and Man City see something in him but he isnt good enough for us to give a proper chance to?
As has been said, they can afford to take the risk. If we sell with proper clauses, then our risk is minimal. We then take a risk spending the money on new players, sure, but I trust Bielsa to pick the players who will work for him. If he decides he wants to keep Jack Clarke, then that's his call too.

I suppose I just don't see the future scenario you describe being that likely. We don't know if pre season will get him firing again, but he definitely faded after his illness. It don't imagine a virus can affect a footballer's ability long term, but who knows?
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Re: 2019/20 Transfer Rumours & Discussion Thread

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SaraM wrote: Thu May 23, 2019 9:36 pm As has been said, they can afford to take the risk. If we sell with proper clauses, then our risk is minimal. We then take a risk spending the money on new players, sure, but I trust Bielsa to pick the players who will work for him. If he decides he wants to keep Jack Clarke, then that's his call too.

I suppose I just don't see the future scenario you describe being that likely. We don't know if pre season will get him firing again, but he definitely faded after his illness. It don't imagine a virus can affect a footballer's ability long term, but who knows?
Virus, medic speak for we havent s clue what was wrong.

That said, and I said it at the time, I think the wee fella had some sort of psychological event. Some sort of break down. Smacks of what happened to Roger Osbourne all those years ago.

Roger was never the same again after.
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Re: 2019/20 Transfer Rumours & Discussion Thread

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SaraM wrote: Thu May 23, 2019 9:36 pm As has been said, they can afford to take the risk. If we sell with proper clauses, then our risk is minimal. We then take a risk spending the money on new players, sure, but I trust Bielsa to pick the players who will work for him. If he decides he wants to keep Jack Clarke, then that's his call too.

I suppose I just don't see the future scenario you describe being that likely. We don't know if pre season will get him firing again, but he definitely faded after his illness. It don't imagine a virus can affect a footballer's ability long term, but who knows?
We can afford to take the risk same as we could afford to take the risk with Vieira but Radz wouldn't.

I expect Phillips and/or Roofe to go anyway so no need to cash in on Clarke.

From a practical perspective we aren't loaded with wingers and Bielsa wanted another one last summer and January, that was before Harrison left and now Pablo is a year older.

If Clarke goes how many wingers will we need to buy? 2? 3?

Certainly faded after his "virus" although he did seem to perk up a bit towards the end of the season (not the same level as pre virus but a bit).
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Re: 2019/20 Transfer Rumours & Discussion Thread

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Irish Ian wrote: Thu May 23, 2019 9:47 pm Virus, medic speak for we havent s clue what was wrong.

That said, and I said it at the time, I think the wee fella had some sort of psychological event. Some sort of break down. Smacks of what happened to Roger Osbourne all those years ago.

Roger was never the same again after.
I wouldn't be surprised and his form had noticeably dipped before that. He went from being an 18 year old playing football with kids that he had been playing in the U18s and then U23s in front of one man and his dog with no real pressure to perform - he could just go out and play the game he enjoyed. He then made it onto the bench a couple of times, maybe felt a bit nervous but didn't come on anyway. Then he came on for a sub appearance and did what he was doing for the U23s, taking people on and just enjoying himself. He did this a couple of times and suddenly everyone was talking about him, everyone was expecting him to go past players every time he got the ball, to produce a bit of magic. Suddenly there is a huge pressure on him and he is still just an 18 year old lad. He has a couple of quiet games and the pressure starts to mount up. Maybe the illness was some sort of panic attack at the thought/expectation of coming on as a sub in the match when it happened.

Whatever it was, and it my above example may be completely off the mark, I hope the club have got people helping all the young players when they break into the limelight, helping them deal with the sudden change to their lives which goes with playing for a club as big as Leeds with fans so expectant. It doesn't surprise me that clubs such as Brentford can pick up players and the players perform straightaway whereas a lot of the players we sign don't. As a Leeds player you can't get away from the pressure, not just on match day but wherever in the world you go there will be Leeds fans, not the same at these smaller clubs where you drive 10 miles away from that town/city and you are away from all the fans.

In fact it might even have been the Brentford game at the end of the season when their fans were almost ridiculing Clarke, laughing at him every time he got the ball as he seemed to lose it every time. Certainly one of the games towards the end of the season.
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Re: 2019/20 Transfer Rumours & Discussion Thread

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Irish Ian wrote: Thu May 23, 2019 9:47 pm Virus, medic speak for we havent s clue what was wrong.

That said, and I said it at the time, I think the wee fella had some sort of psychological event. Some sort of break down. Smacks of what happened to Roger Osbourne all those years ago.

Roger was never the same again after.
This is the worry, isn't it, which is why, on balance, I'd cash in now. I'd certainly rather let Clarke go before Roofe or Phillips, who have proven themselves already.
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Re: 2019/20 Transfer Rumours & Discussion Thread

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We don't know what "the virus" was. It didn't look like a mental breakdown when he collapsed at the bench. So until we hear otherwise I'm going to assume it was a physical ailment (a fairly serious one that required a not insignificant hospital stay) that he was treated for and was still recovering from at season's end.

Naturally such a recovery takes time. Finding touch and confidence takes time. Feeling comfortable with the team after an absence for what had been a fringe player just finding his place takes time.

Yes he isn't "established", nor does he have much "production". HE'S 18 YEARS OLD!!

If clubs are considering paying 20-million for him at this point, when he hasn't played a thousand minutes with the first team, perhaps we shouldn't be so eager to let him go. At this rate he might fetch 40-million at the next window...

And if he can regain the form he displayed before "the virus" and deliver that for a full season as a starter, or god help us, even exceed it... well, he's worth a thousand Harrisons to us.

It would be crazy to sell him now.
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