Lionel Messi-Goated

[dezzy]

Oh my God!

Pinch me, the thought of it it was only four years ago since we were signing Eunan O'Kane!

Exciting times, Messi money is beyond every club on the planet bar a few but I expect at least one big player

[Cjay]

phenomenal record

[Cjay]

Lionel Messi becomes Argentina's all time record appearance maker.

He does so while helping them to a Copa America final with a great goal, a stunning assist, and a penalty goal.

Imo the assist is what sets him apart from everyone else, and its what makes him better than Ronaldo and Mbappe and Haaland.

He is the greatest goalscorer of all time who just so happens to be possibly the greatest goal creator of all time. It goes largely unnoticed but Messi has over 300 career assists.

To put that into context Kevin De Bruyne would need to average almost 30 assists for the next 4 seasons just to match Messi at the same age of 34 that Messi is now.

Its insane.

[Boo Radley]

All incredible stats Cjay. In my opinion he is the best player of his generation by a distance and is right up there with the all time greats. He’s probably top of that list too.

As you pointed out, it’s his overall contribution to teams that is his standout attribute. He can grab a game by the scruff of the neck and drag a team over the line. He even nearly won the World Cup for Argentina by driving them through to the final, but even he couldn’t ensure that Higuain wouldn’t miss two sitters before Germany caught them at the death.

He’s simply a joy to watch.

[Norm]

Great players drive their teams forward by taking games by the scruff of the neck and forcing wins.

I've seen Maradona do it more than any other player I've ever seen.

Messi has all the skill in the world and can be breathtaking in demonstrating that skill, but is he a 'game-forcer'.

I suspect not.

Just a thought, to which you're all entitled, so I await my roasting.

[John in Louisiana]

Was watching the France/Switzerland game and Ian Darke said of one of the Swiss players (I can't recall which one):

"Swiss fans refer to him as the Alpine Messi. It seems everyone has a Messi. I imagine there's an Alsatian Messi, possibly even an Antipodean Messi. This one, apparently, is the Alpine Messi."

[Boo Radley]

Great players drive their teams forward by taking games by the scruff of the neck and forcing wins.

I've seen Maradona do it more than any other player I've ever seen.

Messi has all the skill in the world and can be breathtaking in demonstrating that skill, but is he a 'game-forcer'.

I suspect not.

Just a thought, to which you're all entitled, so I await my roasting.

No roasting here Norm,

Up until Messi, I would have said that Maradona was the world’s best player. He did drive teams to an exceptional extent as he tended to drop deeper. I just think that Messi is better closer to the goal. What he can do with a ball is unique and his scoring abilities are unparalleled.

Maradona is just about second to Messi in my eyes! Everyone to their own opinion on this.

See, no roasting!

[billie1]

Great players drive their teams forward by taking games by the scruff of the neck and forcing wins.

I've seen Maradona do it more than any other player I've ever seen.

Messi has all the skill in the world and can be breathtaking in demonstrating that skill, but is he a 'game-forcer'.

I suspect not.

Just a thought, to which you're all entitled, so I await my roasting.

I’m with you Norm . What Maradona achieved at Napoli ( first team from the south of Italy to win Serie A ) as well as with Argentina in 1986 ( and almost again in 1990 ) was simply extraordinary. The best I’ve ever seen .

[Cjay]

Great players drive their teams forward by taking games by the scruff of the neck and forcing wins.

I've seen Maradona do it more than any other player I've ever seen.

Messi has all the skill in the world and can be breathtaking in demonstrating that skill, but is he a 'game-forcer'.

I suspect not.

Just a thought, to which you're all entitled, so I await my roasting.

No roasting just a repost from me


Always thought it was unfair to suggest Maradona was better then Messi based on international achievements, Maradona cheated at the 86 world cup lets not forget and Messi has the most goal contributions in International Tournaments ever.

He helped them get to the World Cup Quarters in 2006, wasnt selected for that and Germany won on pens.

He helped them get to the Copa America final in 2007, Argentina lost but he was named Player Of The Tournament.

Won the Olympics in 2008 and with Riquelme he was said by Fifa as the best player.

2010 World Cup Maradona was criticised for playing him out of position in qualifiers which caused Maradona to ask Messi for advice and when given it worked but Argentina got knocked out in the Quarters, Messi was still picked out by Fifa as one of the 10 best players of the tournament.

He scored 10 of Argentina's 14 goals in qualifying for the 2014 world cup. He was MOTM for Argentina's first 4 games of the World Cup. He played a large part in the goal that won the Quarter final, he scored in the Penalty shootout in the Semis.
They lost to Germany but Messi was named player of the tournament.

He helped Argentina to another Copa America final, creating 3 goals in the semi final. Argentina lost on pens with Chile being very aggressive with Messi including kicking him in the chest but he was still the only Argentinian player to score his pen.

He was unfit going in to the Copa America Centenario in 2017 but went anyway. He came off the bench in the 2nd group game and scored a 19 minute hatrick to help them get to the Quarters. He scored a goal and made ttwo in the Quarter finals. He scored a goal and made two in the Semis (becoming Argentina's record goalscorer in the process). Argentina lost again to Chile on pens but Messi was 2nd highest goalscorer and top goal provider.

He reitred soon after but reversed his decision. Lucky he did because going in to the final group game Argentina were in real danger of not qualifying. Messi scored 3 vs Ecuador to help them qualify.

The 2018 Argentina World Cup squad was awful, The squad is the worst in their history. Even having the best player in the world was not capable of creating a competitive team. All the decline of recent times was hidden by this unrivalled genius [Messi]"

– Former Argentine player Osvaldo Ardiles on the decline in quality of Argentina being masked by Messi.[372]

During the World Cup the Argentina manager said after a 3-0 loss to Crotaia
 "the reality of the Argentina squad clouds his [Messi's] brilliance" During that match Messi had almost 50 touches, only 2 in the box, he was basically trying to do everything. Modric said after the match "Messi is an incredible player but he cant do everything alone".


Messi scored in the final group game helping Argentina go through as group runners up.

He then created 2 in the knockout defeat to France becoming the first player to provide an assist in 4 consecutive World Cups. He is also the only player to provide goals and assists at World Cups in his teens, 20s and 30s.

So its hard to see what more he could have done, Maradona helped Argentina to one final (and cheated).

Messi helped Argentina to multiple finals, broke multiple international records and so did inspire Argentina on a scale greater than Maradona for longer while providing more goal contributions in international tournaments then any footballer ever.


I never saw Maradona, before my time and clearly had talent.

But imo Messi is a different level from anyone else ever.

No player in history can match his goalscoring and assist numbers (some can get close on one but not both).

No player in history has broken more records.

No player in history has been on the top for longer.

Just my view

[The Subhuman]

Pele and Cruyff for me. Cruyff maybe being the greatest ever imo... Brazil 70 is the greatest single team. I guess it might depend on your generation

[Smudge3920]

Cannot dispute CJ's numbers or rational... And I think I have to support that Messi is the GOAT, that said if he had played in Maradonna's era, I think Maradonna would be the GOAT hands down, his "cheat" aside... Messi has played in an era where "superstars" are protected by referee's...It goes a long way... anyone think Messi would have scored regualrly at Elland Road in the 60'/70's?...(unless he was playing for us of course )

[Norm]

I subscribe to the 'era' thing, but what I am saying is that, although Messi is the greatest international goal-scorer of all time, Maradona was the greatest winner of international games by sheer individual drive.

[Chilli D]

As someone who saw both era's, Messi gets the nod for me, mainly due to the fact he sustained the level for longer (as already stated by Cjay).
Maradona's second goal against us in 86 was something special though, probably the best individual goal of all time.
I agree with faaip regarding Brazil's 1970 team although Holland's total football team of the mid/late seventies comes close.

[billie1]

I agree with faaip regarding Brazil's 1970 team although Holland's total football team of the mid/late seventies comes close.

I agree albeit I would put Brazil’s 1982 team of Socrates , Zico , Falcao , Eder etc in the same bracket as those two magnificent sides .

[Mick Jones shoulder]

Frightening to think what Pele, Cruyff and Maradona could do in this era of basically non contact. 74 and 78 Dutch sides magnificent to watch without winning anything

[Smudge3920]

Frightening to think what Pele, Cruyff and Maradona could do in this era of basically non contact. 74 and 78 Dutch sides magnificent to watch without winning anything

[Cjay]

Messi is technically free agent now

Also i do find the comparisons of players from different eras a bit complicated.

Would modern players cope with the physicality of decades gone by? Perhaps not.

But would old players (such as very heavy smoker Johan Cruyff or drug addict and party boy Diego Maradona) cope with the speed and intensity of the modern game?

Players are far far fitter now than ever before, the game is far faster, players now are elite level athletes treating their bodies like temples, that wasnt the case in decades gone by.

So that imo is why its not so easy to compare eras, times are different, circumstances are different, the game is different.

[Mick Jones shoulder]

Ability .let's face it can you imagine a modern day player doing what George Best did whilst pissed up I think players would adapt to the fitness regime better than the physicality personally.

[YorkshireSquare]

When is he signing for us then?

[John in Louisiana]

I agree albeit I would put Brazil’s 1982 team of Socrates , Zico , Falcao , Eder etc in the same bracket as those two magnificent sides .

Loved that team. How they lost to Italy (or anyone) is still a mystery to me, Rossi's brilliance notwithstanding.