Wiedwald and the amount of clean sheets.

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fred
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Wiedwald and the amount of clean sheets.

Post by fred »

Why?

-Coincidence? Luck?
-Best keeper? (Not recognized because his saves weren`t what they seemed to be...quite in contrary to some of his not-saves.)
-Best organizer of defense?
-Best defenders available and in form?
-Down to the managers incharge?
-Playing while team was as a whole `overachieving`?
-Clean sheets against teams `underachieving` and/or having problems scoring goals?
-A complex mixture of all or some of the above mentoned points?

What can the stats help to clarify?

What are the relevant stats? (I`ll check this out when I have time.)
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Re: Wiedwald and the amount of clean sheets.

Post by SG90 »

Because he was made the scapegoat, especially by Sky Sports. We kicked him out after the wendies, Lonergan came in and was dreadful, but got nowhere near the same stick. Weidwald came back in and kept a clean sheet straight away and our form improved. Weidwald got all the blame for Boro away, BPF comes in and hasn't kept a clean sheet. Let's be honest, Weidwald would be getting pelters for going that long without a clean sheet.
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fred
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Re: Wiedwald and the amount of clean sheets.

Post by fred »

SG90 wrote: Sat Apr 28, 2018 5:09 pm Because he was made the scapegoat, especially by Sky Sports. We kicked him out after the wendies, Lonergan came in and was dreadful, but got nowhere near the same stick. Weidwald came back in and kept a clean sheet straight away and our form improved. Weidwald got all the blame for Boro away, BPF comes in and hasn't kept a clean sheet. Let's be honest, Weidwald would be getting pelters for going that long without a clean sheet.
Nice, but just no sound facts. I`ll have to check those f**king stats to base this whole question on some serious data.

The last sentence is cringeworthy...LET`S BE HONEST: you believe that nonsense?
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Re: Wiedwald and the amount of clean sheets.

Post by SG90 »

fred wrote: Sat Apr 28, 2018 5:30 pm Nice, but just no sound facts. I`ll have to check those f**king stats to base this whole question on some serious data.

The last sentence is cringeworthy...LET`S BE HONEST: you believe that nonsense?
No the last sentence is not nonsense. Fact is fans tend to give academy players a free pass when others wouldn't get them.
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Re: Wiedwald and the amount of clean sheets.

Post by beer belly bert »

fred wrote: Sat Apr 28, 2018 5:02 pm




What can the stats help to clarify?

anything you want them to ....................does not change the facts though ..............he is a terrible keeper :tdown:
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Re: Wiedwald and the amount of clean sheets.

Post by fred »

SG90 wrote: Sat Apr 28, 2018 5:38 pm No the last sentence is not nonsense. Fact is fans tend to give academy players a free pass when others wouldn't get them.
It is nonsense. Had Wiedwald played as BPF has in the last games, only someone with massiv prejudices
would bemoan that no clean sheets were among the results.
If you suggest that total nonsense is true, I find it hard to take you serious at all.
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Re: Wiedwald and the amount of clean sheets.

Post by SG90 »

fred wrote: Sat Apr 28, 2018 5:49 pm It is nonsense. Had Wiedwald played as BPF has in the last games, only someone with massiv prejudices
would bemoan that no clean sheets were among the results.
If you suggest that total nonsense is true, I find it hard to take you serious at all.
Another thread said his clean sheets were all down to the defence, the same defence that is now costing BPF clean sheets.
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Re: Wiedwald and the amount of clean sheets.

Post by fred »

beer belly bert wrote: Sat Apr 28, 2018 5:47 pm anything you want them to ....................does not change the facts though ..............he is a terrible keeper :tdown:
Not sure about that. If the stats say that Wiedwald had in average 2 shots on goal in those games with clean sheets, in the other games an average of 3.5 shots on goal, then this doesn`t prove anything, but it is a first indication that this could be a reason why he had clean sheets. If you can follow this up with similar stats (saved shots, ball possesion, line-ups, league position and recent form of opposition etc.) then this is a plausible reason to believe that the clean sheets are based on Facts not related to Wiedwalds qualities as a keeper.
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Re: Wiedwald and the amount of clean sheets.

Post by fred »

SG90 wrote: Sat Apr 28, 2018 5:51 pm Another thread said his clean sheets were all down to the defence, the same defence that is now costing BPF clean sheets.
Nonsense!
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Re: Wiedwald and the amount of clean sheets.

Post by Clive »

Have you seen what Archer's just done now for Millwall?

He's the worst keeper I've ever seen, plays for a worse team than Leeds, and yet somehow they're doing a lot better than Leeds.
fred
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Re: Wiedwald and the amount of clean sheets.

Post by fred »

Here the stats in regard to: `shots on goal` etc. The numbers in brackets in Wiedwald stats show
the specific differences in regard to his 12 clean sheets.
:

Keeper: ...................................................Wiedwald ----------------BPF--------------------Lonergan

Games played:...........................................28 (12)----------------------10----------------------- 7
(Championship)

Goals conceded/per game.......................1.18 (0)----------------------1.8----------------------- 1.86

Shots on goal/per game:..........................3.7 (2.6)--------------------5.2------------------------4.3

Shots (on goal) per goal:........................... 3.15 (----)-------------------2.9------------------------2.3

Points/per game:.......................................1.54 (2.3)--------------------0.8-------------------------0.86

What seems possible be conclude from the stats alone?
-The team was on average the most successful with Wiedwald in goal. (Almost double the points-average as with BPF.)
-The best keeper was, taking the criteria of `shots on goal per goal` Wiedwald (3.15), BPF (2.9), Lonergan (2.3)
-Wiedwald played on average better in the games with clean sheets than in the games he conceded goals. This also
if one takes into account that there were less shots on goal in average in these games.

What can be concluded from these stats in reality?
-Anyones guess...
-Lonergan is clearly weaker than the other two, but based only on 7 games played statistically with little validity. (BPF has played
mabe too little games too.)
-If I compares what the stats suggest with the actual performances of the players, I would conclude that the stats
aren`t very valid. BPF seemed on average to play better than Wiedwald in my eyes. Are my eyes valid though?
Or did Wiedwald (despite his evident mistakes) play better than the (my) impression suggests?
Only a study of the matches one by one (in regard to the saves) with `objectiv` criteria, would be able to
answer that question.
-I tend to believe what my eyes see. That is: for me BPF is better than Wiedwald all in all based on the performances
I watched. (Almost every game online.)
-The fact that the team as a whole played much more successfull with Wiedwald in goal (average points per game),
doesn`t seem relevant, as the main stat for the keeper is the stat `shots on goal/per conceded goal` and this doeesn`t
seem to be influenced by the points-average. One could argue that a successfull team has more confidence and that
the keeper benefits from this fact. Taking into account that Wiedwald seemed more dependent on the confidence of
the others than the other way round, this could be a relevant point all the same. (Of course there are other qualities of
keepers that are relevant, more or less connected to the stat `shots on goal/per goal`, so how good a keeper controls his
penalty area (catching crosses), his distribution etc., just suggest that the eye watching the performance as a whole
is maybe more reliable than, or at least as important as, the naked numbers.

Whatever... :)
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Re: Wiedwald and the amount of clean sheets.

Post by Goalkeeperunion »

Care is required regarding stats alone as some have said but a combination of player stats and results are very good indicator.

Key indicators for a keepers contribution in my opinion are -

Shots on goal - this indicates how well a keeper communicates and dominates his area of responsibility. This is often overlooked but it's critical in that even the very best on the top of their game save 75% ish. So for every 4 shots a goal goes in.

Save rate - obviously the higher the save rate the better the keeper seems. Care is required here however in that the style of play dictates where these shots come from and is often out of the hands of the keeper.

Clearly a keeper who supports a reduced number of shots and has a decent save rate is always going to contribute to results more than another keeper who impresses us all with save after save with exaggerated dives and personality antics.
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Re: Wiedwald and the amount of clean sheets.

Post by Gino 1959 »

To be fair he has kept more clean sheets than Ronan.

Admittedly, Ronan has the dodgier pair of hands.
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Re: Wiedwald and the amount of clean sheets.

Post by fred »

Goalkeeperunion wrote: Sun Apr 29, 2018 11:54 am Shots on goal - this indicates how well a keeper communicates and dominates his area of responsibility. This is often overlooked but it's critical in that even the very best on the top of their game save 75% ish. So for every 4 shots a goal goes in.
Hm...can`t this aspect be quite independent from the keepers influence? If the CB have a good communication they can organize a defense even if a keeper is poor in ragard to this ability.
But good point that the bunch of all keepers won`t vary too much in regard to percentage of saved shots.
Save rate - obviously the higher the save rate the better the keeper seems. Care is required here however in that the style of play dictates where these shots come from and is often out of the hands of the keeper.
Yes. You can have almost unstoppable shots and such more like a back pass from a defender.
Clearly a keeper who supports a reduced number of shots and has a decent save rate is always going to contribute to results more than another keeper who impresses us all with save after save with exaggerated dives and personality antics.
Not if a `fancy` keeper can combine efficiency with entertainer qualities. :roflmao:


What would you conclude from the above stats, if anything?
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