Citeh... Squad value 1.4 billion (Liddypool, Scum, and Chelski, not far behind) ... how do you compare with that?... Citeh turned it around in just about 1 season, they bought a team, for them it worked, had a few close calls but they got away with it, unlike us when we tried it... we have a long way to go, I do not envy Bielsa his task at all...One thing I fully believe is ...we will be ok.

Aussieleeds wrote: ↑Thu Sep 17, 2020 11:28 am This ManU side once lost a cup match against a League 1 side.
Man Utd: Kuszczak, Neville, Vidic, Jonathan Evans,
Fabio Da Silva, Welbeck, Gibson, Anderson, Obertan, Berbatov, Rooney.
Subs: Amos, Brown, Owen, Giggs, Tosic, Carrick,

... it happens.

Excellent post, Andrew

While the performance was disappointing and we would have liked a good run, there's no reason to be setting off alarm bells over one game

It was our second string against their first team (granted our players should be good enough). It was the first time many of them had a full game (no preseason, no U-23 football). The lack of chemistry was clear. Give some these players chance after they've dropped down and played a few U-23 games and they'll come back looking a whole lot different.

Casey and Cresswell probably looked another season off doing a job for the first team, but if you'd taken any one of the players last night and dropped them into Saturday's line up they'd look different. Bogusz for Klich, Shackleton for Ayling, Davis for Dallas, with the other 10 around them and they'd look a different player.

No knocks on Rodrigo. He did a lot of work dropping back into midfield. Did anyone see that pass he sent from right back all the way over to left back? Showed his quality and showed his work rate. Last night juts showed the lack of chemistry and cohesion that will come with time - he's only been at the club for 8 days. It showed that Bamford gets the #9 for a while, but also that Rodrigo might be playing #10 or on the wing at some point.

I expected much better from Alioski, Roberts, Douglas. It's hard to judge given the lack of game time and preseason. If we did sign an attacking mid, Roberts would probably need a loan deal. Douglas is 3rd choice LB. Alioski does a job.

Overall, no reason to panic about lack of depth. Schedule ahead is pretty easy now. We only need 14-15 1st teamers. Over the next 6 months, we should see considerable development from the youngsters that will back up the first team in the longer run (Gelhardt, Casey, Cresswell, Bogusz, Gotts, Davis, Greenwood, Summerville, McCalmont, Stevens, Drameh}. Give it time. We'll be fine. In Bielsa we trust.

What this proves to me, not that I needed proof, was that we are some ways short of having a competitive second 11 like the big teams do. No shame in that, we are light years behind them. People are disappointed in the performance and the result, but we need to be realistic about the sort of squad we can afford to put together at this stage (that also fits with Bielsa's squad size preference) and what our priorities should be. Again, this idea that we have chucked away a realistic chance of silverware is way off the mark, imo.

This ManU side once lost a cup match against a League 1 side.
Man Utd: Kuszczak, Neville, Vidic, Jonathan Evans,
Fabio Da Silva, Welbeck, Gibson, Anderson, Obertan, Berbatov, Rooney.
Subs: Amos, Brown, Owen, Giggs, Tosic, Carrick,

Richard wrote: ↑Thu Sep 17, 2020 7:21 am It was quite alarming, I have to question who felt any of our current U23s were better than Coyle or Wilks and allowed them to go with a few others remaining and playing last night. Six of our starting 11 could have started against Liverpool. If Douglas had been picked ahead of Dallas, Poveda and Alioski instead of Harrison and Costa then we have Shackleton, Roberts and Rodrigo who could have easily started on Saturday.

It is not about whether the U23s are better than the likes of Coyle or Wilkes at this point it is more about the level of potential. Coyle has been playing well for Fleetwood for a couple of seasons yet no team at a higher level than League 1 has come in for him. Wilkes went to Barnsley and from the outside seemed to be doing well, however the team was rooted to the bottom of the table and they sold him to Hull. He went to Hull and they nosedived whilst Barnsley improved. Now it probably isn't all simply down to him but it perhaps suggests he looks good but isn't a great team player. Barnsley started playing the high press and shipped him out so they thought he was unsuitable, likely also the reason why Bielsa shipped him out. Wilkes will probably be added to the list of ex-players that raises their game when playing against us buit lacks the consistency to do it on a regular basis - he played well against us last season too.

It would appear Bielsa picked the right team against Liverpool and the players you mentioned will have done nothing to make Bielsa pause for thought when naming the starting XI for Saturday

Rodrigo on that showing last night certainly no better than bamford, could this be a very very costly flop at 27m

Richard wrote: ↑Thu Sep 17, 2020 7:21 am It was quite alarming, I have to question who felt any of our current U23s were better than Coyle or Wilks and allowed them to go with a few others remaining and playing last night. Six of our starting 11 could have started against Liverpool. If Douglas had been picked ahead of Dallas, Poveda and Alioski instead of Harrison and Costa then we have Shackleton, Roberts and Rodrigo who could have easily started on Saturday

We treated Lewie Coyle shabbily when were crap, I always rated the lad

Richard wrote: ↑Thu Sep 17, 2020 7:21 am Roberts has convinced me he will never be more than average Championship standard, did he think it was a friendly with his constant back heels and flicks that never once worked and how long does he need on the ball? He is not a quick thinking footballer that’s for sure.

Hallelujah

God knows what others see in Roberts, he rarely effects a game.

I can name the three games Roberts has excelled in......Preston, West Brom at ER & Hull away.

Not great in two years, he should be flying by now!

It was quite alarming, I have to question who felt any of our current U23s were better than Coyle or Wilks and allowed them to go with a few others remaining and playing last night. Six of our starting 11 could have started against Liverpool. If Douglas had been picked ahead of Dallas, Poveda and Alioski instead of Harrison and Costa then we have Shackleton, Roberts and Rodrigo who could have easily started on Saturday.

Roberts has convinced me he will never be more than average Championship standard, did he think it was a friendly with his constant back heels and flicks that never once worked and how long does he need on the ball? He is not a quick thinking footballer that’s for sure.

My biggest concern of the night wasn’t the defeat, it wasn’t the disjointed performance, it was how shockingly poor Rodrigo was against L1 opposition

majority who played yesterday wont get on the bench, the ones who did aliosky, douglas, davis,roberts,poveda the rest are under 23 and will stay there, our current squad still lacks plenty of quality, 27m spent on rodrigo he never looked like he was worth that last night and others had an oppertunity to shine but noone did, hull should have walked away with a 1-4 scoreline yesterday if it wasn't for casilla. although with a squad marcelo put out last night it was allways going to happen if we had got through any decent premier league team would have beat us. no distraction now until fa cup so need to concentrate on staying up and we still need a few quality signings before window closes, i still think that tammy abraham on loan for the season would have been a better bet than 27m on rodrigo, he would have jumped at the chance he wont get much game play now behind, hudson odoi, werner, haverts etc..

whiteswan wrote: ↑Wed Sep 16, 2020 11:44 pm We'll be OK when the 'proper' team plays on Saturday. The 'Mickey Mouse Cup' should have been gotten rid of this season.

Point is Swannie we were capable of winning that Micky Mouse cup, shame we have chucked that opportunity of winning silverware away feebly

Fans have been banging the drum about players who couldn't attain a regular place in the championship or young players with little experience in the second tier & are expecting them to perform at the highest level. I've lost count how many times I have said the premier league is a totally different level to the championship yet those players last night couldn't cope with a league one team, a club that has hit rock bottom in the last two years.

Only three or four players came out of that game with any credit, very concerning imo!

No, because the team chosen will not be used in the Premier League.

Just because playing all eleven new player led to a defeat, does not mean that having to play two or three of them at different times will have the same consequences.

There is a huge difference between all those players appearing at the same time and two or three of them playing alongside eight or nine regular first choice players.

We'll be OK when the 'proper' team plays on Saturday. The 'Mickey Mouse Cup' should have been gotten rid of this season.

weasel wrote: ↑Wed Sep 16, 2020 11:21 pm As for the lack of depth it is far different if 1 or 2 of those players came into the starting XI as they would be slotting into a reasonably well oiled machine. Far different throwing a mix of first team squad players, U23s and U18s together and expecting it to gel.

This is a good point. Bielsa has to take a considerable amount of blame for this evening’s debacle. Too much change means the lack of structure and leaders will impact on new players, especially young players. He could have kept the spine of the team and added youth around that. Once you had control of the game you could replace some of the spine. Now it has been a negative experience for the young lads, it’s another loss for Leeds United and unnecessary negative publicity around the club.

Fulham appeared to put out a fairly strong team tonight and just about got the win against another League One opponent. They should have reason to worry about Saturday, like ourselves, but winning is a habit and you shouldn’t pass up chances like tonight.

YorkshireSquare wrote: ↑Wed Sep 16, 2020 10:06 pm
The evening didn’t start well, after a poor Kiko Casilla clearance, Leeds United academy graduate Mallik Wilks’s shot deflected into the Spaniards net to give Hull the lead. Whilst Casilla couldn’t do much with the shot, the mistake leading up to it will go down as another black mark following a poor pre-season. With Illan Meslier’s place in the first team looking more certain is Casilla an expensive keeper, with a shadow hanging over him, to be languishing on the bench, is it time for the ex-Madrid man to move on?

It wasn't a poor clearance it was a drilled pass and it summed up the general lethargy of the team that the player that the pass was played to was simply stood there watching and allowed Hull to get to the ball. If that pass had been to Dallas or Harrison they would have already been moving on to it and not caught flatfooted.

Needless to say all the usual suspects will be giving Kiko stick. I thought he had a reasonable game, no fault for the goal, a couple of decent punches clear and a few 'tv' saves where pushed the ball away when he should have been catching. Perfectly fine with Kiko as back-up to Messlier and no worries if he came into the side due to injuries, suspension or Messlier struggling.

As for the lack of depth it is far different if 1 or 2 of those players came into the starting XI as they would be slotting into a reasonably well oiled machine. Far different throwing a mix of first team squad players, U23s and U18s together and expecting it to gel.

No, not at all, Completely the wrong conclusion to draw from that performance from a team playing their first full game in 6 months

Cjay wrote: ↑Wed Sep 16, 2020 10:20 pm When teams get promoted it is common for sacrifices to be made.

Players who played regularly in the promotion campaign are let go and replaced by better players.

Its cruel but thats the game.

We seem unwilling to do that for some reason.

We have players who could be sold to help fund the normal squad improvements promoted sides need.

We saw some of them tonight, 3 or 4 of the senior players playing tonight should be people we look to cash in on to improve.

I dont understand why unlike usual promoted clubs we seem to have 0 motivation to do this?

To not try and bring some funds in would be bizarre.

How much would we even get for the likes of Roberts right now? Sell all of the players I mentioned above and we still wouldn't be able to afford a single upgrade for any of our current first team.

Bielsa style small squad will be just fine, no interests in cups, planning for a 38 game campaign, whilst trying to get required players in to increase squad size... All will be well.