To Panic Or Not To Panic

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faaip
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Re: To Panic Or Not To Panic

Post by faaip » Fri Jul 13, 2018 5:37 pm

Another day drifts buy with no more new Leeds United players
BPF - Beradi - Jansson - Forshaw - Cooper - Douglas - Hernandez - Klich - Saiz - Roofe - Clarke

"objective fan" - is that a consistent oxymoron?"

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Re: To Panic Or Not To Panic

Post by lufc1304 » Fri Jul 13, 2018 8:00 pm

Meanwhile, every other team in the championship has announced marquee signings today and investment from a load of minted oil sheikhs.....
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Re: To Panic Or Not To Panic

Post by faaip » Fri Jul 13, 2018 8:16 pm

lufc1304 wrote:
Fri Jul 13, 2018 8:00 pm
Meanwhile, every other team in the championship has announced marquee signings today and investment from a load of minted oil sheikhs.....
Doesn't bother me too much to be honest, I like the players we have for the most part and I like continuity. Leeds are at their best producing our own talent, taking on has been talent and adding the odd drop of quality.
BPF - Beradi - Jansson - Forshaw - Cooper - Douglas - Hernandez - Klich - Saiz - Roofe - Clarke

"objective fan" - is that a consistent oxymoron?"

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Re: To Panic Or Not To Panic

Post by Cjay » Fri Jul 13, 2018 8:27 pm

lufc1304 wrote:
Fri Jul 13, 2018 8:00 pm
Meanwhile, every other team in the championship has announced marquee signings today and investment from a load of minted oil sheikhs.....
Villa, Birmingham, Derby, Sheffield Wednesday and QPR, all.clubs with financial difficulties.

Sheffield United, Millwall and WBA.

The only clubs who have made the same amount or less signings then us.

6 of those are in genuine financial trouble, 1 has the money to spend if they want.

2 finished higher then us on a far smaller budget.

None of them have a notoriously demanding new manager with a very complicated tactical philosophy.

Understand people being frustrated with the negativity but when its put out in front like that it is a concern.

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Re: To Panic Or Not To Panic

Post by weasel » Fri Jul 13, 2018 8:33 pm

1964white wrote:
Fri Jul 13, 2018 2:37 pm
If we stick with the same old faces we can forget promotion

You can't polish a turd
To some degree, when it comes to football, you can. A good manager can certainly get more out of a squad than a bad manager and as Warnock has repeatedly shown getting a team organised and playing to a system can work. Ultimately to win at the top you need better players but at this level a good manager can make a huge difference as most teams in this division are very similar ability wise.
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Re: To Panic Or Not To Panic

Post by Richard » Sat Jul 14, 2018 5:55 am

Trying to remain positive and picking out an improvement on last season (Weasel last comment got me thinking this)..

We’re obviously not doing the Orta scatter gun approach again this season turning to Wiki every day. The lack of signings could simply be Orta approaching Bielsa with a player and Bielsa saying not for my approach on things.

I’m moaning about lack of signings but my largest gripe was the coach and Orta not working in tandem, at least that seems to be fixed. Agreed Warnock didn’t need to spend big, he spotted a couple of smaller signings that were important small wheels that made the big wheel turn.

Not always about improving what you have but finding that missing cog that compliments them. Monk got off to an awful start with us, then he signed O’Kane. Yes we’ve seen how poor O’Kane can be but when he first joined and he played in a poor performing team he was like a missing link, it all seemed to click.

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Re: To Panic Or Not To Panic

Post by Norm » Sat Jul 14, 2018 6:53 am

weasel wrote: ↑

To some degree, when it comes to football, you can. A good manager can certainly get more out of a squad than a bad manager and as Warnock has repeatedly shown getting a team organised and playing to a system can work. Ultimately to win at the top you need better players but at this level a good manager can make a huge difference as most teams in this division are very similar ability wise.
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Which is, to give credit to a very astute Championship-level manager, exactly what Warncock has done on several occasions.
He usually gets fired after the momentum slows on entry to the Premiership and things start falling apart, a la QPR (iirc}.
That's not insulting the man, we are probably one of the few teams he has managed who have not had at least a transitory taste of the Premiership before succumbing to the inevitable. Then we begin re-entry to the lower level because he hasn't the funds, or maybe indeed the skill, to keep the promoted team up there.

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Re: To Panic Or Not To Panic

Post by weasel » Sat Jul 14, 2018 6:55 am

A classic case of turd polishing or players playing better in certain formations or tactics is Bamba. When he first came to us on loan he looked great as we were playing basic football, not trying to play out from the back. In the summer we changed manager and tried to play out from the back. This proved to be disastrous for Bamba and he made so many mistakes that he looked awful. Monk decided from the start to get rid of him, but this may have been more because Bamba seemed to be a bit outspoken. Bamba ended up at Cardiff where they didn't play out from the back and Bamba's sole job was to defend and he looked like the Bamba that first played for us.
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Re: To Panic Or Not To Panic

Post by weasel » Sat Jul 14, 2018 7:08 am

Another example is O'Kane. Fitted into Bournemouth's possession based system. Played great at the start of last season with people asking why he hadn't played more the season before. But then after our initial slump we changed the way we played and it just didn't suit him at all.
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Re: To Panic Or Not To Panic

Post by Norm » Sat Jul 14, 2018 7:10 am

weasel wrote:

A classic case of turd polishing or players playing better in certain formations or tactics is Bamba. When he first came to us on loan he looked great as we were playing basic football, not trying to play out from the back. In the summer we changed manager and tried to play out from the back. This proved to be disastrous for Bamba and he made so many mistakes that he looked awful. Monk decided from the start to get rid of him, but this may have been more because Bamba seemed to be a bit outspoken. Bamba ended up at Cardiff where they didn't play out from the back and Bamba's sole job was to defend and he looked like the Bamba that first played for us.
Ironically, given the personnel, as Monk's own defensive philosophy eventually dictated with us.

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Re: To Panic Or Not To Panic

Post by faaip » Sat Jul 14, 2018 8:19 am

weasel wrote:
Sat Jul 14, 2018 7:08 am
Another example is O'Kane. Fitted into Bournemouth's possession based system. Played great at the start of last season with people asking why he hadn't played more the season before. But then after our initial slump we changed the way we played and it just didn't suit him at all.
You put O'Kane into space and give him time on the ball he's excellent, any team pressing him and he's not the same player.
BPF - Beradi - Jansson - Forshaw - Cooper - Douglas - Hernandez - Klich - Saiz - Roofe - Clarke

"objective fan" - is that a consistent oxymoron?"

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Re: To Panic Or Not To Panic

Post by Genghers » Sat Jul 14, 2018 9:28 am

I think the thing we are all guilty of forgetting is how good we were at the start of last season. We were top for a couple of weeks!
That just shows that the players have the quality, but suggests there was probably an issue with a) man management b) motivation c) fitness or d) all of the above.

We were poor when Heck came in, probably because he had all the tactical nous of a gnat. I still believe we would have had another purple patch under Cristiansen, but that's by the by.

As Richard says, slow transfers at least suggests we're being more methodical in our approach which, since Cellino was in charge, has provdied about 1 in 5 serviceable championship players...

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Re: To Panic Or Not To Panic

Post by lufc1304 » Sat Jul 14, 2018 11:36 am

faaip wrote:
Fri Jul 13, 2018 8:16 pm
Doesn't bother me too much to be honest, I like the players we have for the most part and I like continuity. Leeds are at their best producing our own talent, taking on has been talent and adding the odd drop of quality.
:tup:

I guess it all depends on your expectations as well, faaip. I want a team I can be proud of, a team that trys to play football and players who give their all every game. If that's enough to get us to the play-offs or auto promotion, so be it, but I can live with it not being if I see progress and a team playing for each other and the shirt.
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Re: To Panic Or Not To Panic

Post by Cjay » Mon Jul 16, 2018 2:56 pm

Kick off is now just 20 days away.

2 decent loans, nothing more then that, not ambitious loans like a Foden or a Diaz.

Not knocking the loans, decent but there not game changers which i think loans should be.

Panic is now real for me I'm afraid.

Still need a striker, cb, winger, ideally two strikers and 2 cbs unless Bielsa sees Cooper as a key player.

Unsurprisingly we cant move on players Bielsa doesnt want like Sacko and O'Kane.

What happens when you tie down very average players to long term deals.

Think Radz believes Bielsa can turn the majority of the dross into promotion players, if he can i firmly believe he is the messiah.

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Re: To Panic Or Not To Panic

Post by 1964white » Mon Jul 16, 2018 4:03 pm

Cjay wrote:
Mon Jul 16, 2018 2:56 pm
Kick off is now just 20 days away.

2 decent loans, nothing more then that, not ambitious loans like a Foden or a Diaz.

Not knocking the loans, decent but there not game changers which i think loans should be.

Panic is now real for me I'm afraid.

Still need a striker, cb, winger, ideally two strikers and 2 cbs unless Bielsa sees Cooper as a key player.

Unsurprisingly we cant move on players Bielsa doesnt want like Sacko and O'Kane.

What happens when you tie down very average players to long term deals.

Think Radz believes Bielsa can turn the majority of the dross into promotion players, if he can i firmly believe he is the messiah.
Why does none of this post does not surprised me Cjay ?

A messiah or miracle worker is our only hope right now.

Marquee signings are essential if a club has the premiership in their sights

Tbh I'm past caring !

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Re: To Panic Or Not To Panic

Post by herefordbornleedsboy » Mon Jul 16, 2018 4:43 pm

Think the transfer window has been slow going for a lot of teams.
In my mind we need a striker a winger and a centre half now to be in good shape going into the new season.
Lest we forget we have Roberts to come in and Ideguchi and Klich who haven't really played for us as well.
Couple that with some exciting youngsters coming through and I think we are looking good.
We were never going to go out and throw £50million around as otherwise there was no point in bolstering our u23s last year imho.
I'll panic if we've signed no more players by the time the new season rolls around. Until then I'm happy to wait and see.

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Re: To Panic Or Not To Panic

Post by Cjay » Mon Jul 16, 2018 8:30 pm

1964white wrote:
Mon Jul 16, 2018 4:03 pm
Why does none of this post does not surprised me Cjay ?

A messiah or miracle worker is our only hope right now.

Marquee signings are essential if a club has the premiership in their sights

Tbh I'm past caring !
Noo your not :)

Bit of a non event compared to what we were told would be an "exciting summer" according to Angus Kinnear.

And it seems to have been forgotten but Radz didnt imply he might "do a Wolves" if what Wolves did was legal, that was the basis for his outburst lets not forget, it wasnt sour grapes of course.

He didnt imply anything, he outright said it.
"I want to understand the rules so I can act like them," Radrizzani told BBC Sport.

"If it's possible I would do the same as it's been proven to be successful for the team


“I have a relationship with Jorge Mendes, with Mino Raiola, I have a lot of good long-term friendships with top agents in the world, so if this is ok I would like to do the same,” he said.

Direct quotes from Radz.

Thought at the time he made a mistake saying this, if he doesnt deliver then that makes him a liar and a whiner?

You cant say what Radz said about Wolves, then name drop the biggest agents in Football and just claim you wanted clarification in order to do the same and then not deliver imo.

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Re: To Panic Or Not To Panic

Post by Richard » Mon Jul 16, 2018 9:12 pm

For me we need a new striker and a defender, if Bielsa goes with his 3 at the back Ayling and Pontus but we need someone else, we can’t rely on Cooper.

The three in front of the back three, Forshaw is nailed on, we then have whoever Bielsa sees as best suiting the role, two wing backs or wide midfield players? Berardi, Dallas, Pearce have all covered a similar position but are the three good enough? Will we see Klich, Phillips, Vieira or Ideguchi featuring?

Attacking well it’s Saiz or Hernandez at number 10 with Alioski and Roofe each side, Roberts the striker, we all know a new striker is top of the shopping list so it depends if Bielsa sees Hernandez and Saiz capable of playing in the same team to his system, I don’t think he will.

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Re: To Panic Or Not To Panic

Post by 1964white » Mon Jul 16, 2018 9:16 pm

Cjay wrote:
Mon Jul 16, 2018 8:30 pm
Noo your not :)



He didnt imply anything, he outright said it.
"I want to understand the rules so I can act like them," Radrizzani told BBC Sport.

"If it's possible I would do the same as it's been proven to be successful for the team


“I have a relationship with Jorge Mendes, with Mino Raiola, I have a lot of good long-term friendships with top agents in the world, so if this is ok I would like to do the same,” he said.

Direct quotes from Radz.

Thought at the time he made a mistake saying this, if he doesnt deliver then that makes him a liar and a whiner?

You cant say what Radz said about Wolves, then name drop the biggest agents in Football and just claim you wanted clarification in order to do the same and then not deliver imo.
Usual bullsh*t from a Leeds owner, heard it all before.....many times !

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Re: To Panic Or Not To Panic

Post by weasel » Mon Jul 16, 2018 10:03 pm

I would be very surprised if we didn't make at least 2 very exciting signings (even if they were loans) before the transfer window shuts. Bielsa suggested 4 or 5 signings and as such we are halfway there. I don't overly care that they may be loans with no deal agreed to buy as unless we make it to the premiership it would be unlikely that we'd be able to sign them. If we do get promoted than we are in a much better position to a) be able to afford them and b) able to attract them. I doubt Huddersfield had an option to buy Mooy from Man City but after they got promoted it meant they were able to afford to buy him (I think the fee was around £10m/£11m and they wouldn't have been able to afford anywhere near that without promotion) and they also were then in a position to entice him as he knew the club and knew he would be a starter so it made sense all round for a deal to happen (Huddersfield wanted it, Mooy wanted it and City were happy to cash in on a player that wasn't going to break into their first team). If either Chlesea player excels for us it isn't likely that it would suddenly propel them into Chelsea's first team.
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