What might have been

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weasel
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What might have been

Post by weasel » Sun Apr 15, 2018 7:52 pm

For those who knock TC have a read and just compare Pep Guardiola's struggles in the first season, despite an impressive start, the failure of a ball playing keeper and how 2 or 3 key signings the following year made the team click. What might have been...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/43676021
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Re: What might have been

Post by Ratscoot » Sun Apr 15, 2018 8:04 pm

Agree the trigger was pulled far too early
A bumble bee under the laws of physics shouldnt be able to fly, but it does because no one has told it that it can't

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Re: What might have been

Post by 1964white » Sun Apr 15, 2018 8:25 pm

Ratscoot wrote:
Sun Apr 15, 2018 8:04 pm
Agree the trigger was pulled far too early
And once again....who pulled the trigger ?

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Re: What might have been

Post by SG90 » Sun Apr 15, 2018 8:26 pm

Yeah definitely. Jokanovic finished 21st in his first season at Fulham and Wagner finished 19th, just shows what happens when you give them time to build. I said the day he was appointed he needed two seasons and I honestly thought AR would give him that. Hope we reconsider bringing him back.

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Re: What might have been

Post by SG90 » Sun Apr 15, 2018 8:28 pm

1964white wrote:
Sun Apr 15, 2018 8:25 pm
And once again....who pulled the trigger ?
Radz, Orta wanted him to stay. Thank God he didn't sack him for Heck after Brentford away or we'd be doomed.

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Re: What might have been

Post by Dalton » Mon Apr 16, 2018 8:19 am

for me the turning point in the season came in the Newport game. We had a decent spell around xmas and werent out of the hunt for a play off spot. Then we went behind in the cup, Saiz our playmaker came on, spat and got banned for 6 games. The wind went out of our sails and the good ship Leeds Utd hit went towards the iceberg. Unfortunately the crows nest belled the bridge screaming "pick up you bstard" and Paul Heckingbottom picked up
My my my, such a lot of guns around town and so few brains

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Re: What might have been

Post by Norm » Wed Apr 18, 2018 4:16 am

I wish to hell that Radz (or Radz/Orta) hadn't fired TC, but rather met and agreed with him on the way forward, maybe sanctioning an assistant of suitable calibre who could have taken some of the pressure off TC, much as Steve Thompson took the pressure off Neil Redfearn in their short duet. That being said, if they still thought they had to fire TC, I simply do not understand why they didn't try to find a replacement who had the same footballing nous which TC had learned from Guardiola, being as the U23s and U18s were playing in a similar way. It's just a massive waste of a potentially very good manager/coach, not to mention that it puts us back a few years as a club.

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Re: What might have been

Post by Elland back » Wed Apr 18, 2018 6:00 pm

Dalton wrote:
Mon Apr 16, 2018 8:19 am
for me the turning point in the season came in the Newport game. We had a decent spell around xmas and werent out of the hunt for a play off spot. Then we went behind in the cup, Saiz our playmaker came on, spat and got banned for 6 games. The wind went out of our sails and the good ship Leeds Utd hit went towards the iceberg. Unfortunately the crows nest belled the bridge screaming "pick up you bstard" and Paul Heckingbottom picked up
100% correct.

It was all down to the Newport game.

Rad wanted to get rid of TC in January, but Orta begged him not to...

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Re: What might have been

Post by 1964white » Wed Apr 18, 2018 7:15 pm

Elland back wrote:
Wed Apr 18, 2018 6:00 pm
100% correct.

It was all down to the Newport game.

Rad wanted to get rid of TC in January, but Orta begged him not to...
Ironic how both Monk & Christiansen made a mockery of the FA Cup in their quest for promotion & failed :(

Ironic how both Cellino & Radz didn't do enough in the January Window & yet again we failed :(

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Re: What might have been

Post by Elland back » Wed Apr 18, 2018 7:38 pm

1964white wrote:
Wed Apr 18, 2018 7:15 pm
Ironic how both Monk & Christiansen made a mockery of the FA Cup in their quest for promotion & failed :(

Ironic how both Cellino & Radz didn't do enough in the January Window & yet again we failed :(
Yet again, again and again.

We don't learn by our mistakes.

These are huge glaring mistakes

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Re: What might have been

Post by Elland back » Wed Apr 18, 2018 7:42 pm

SG90 wrote:
Sun Apr 15, 2018 8:26 pm
Yeah definitely. Jokanovic finished 21st in his first season at Fulham and Wagner finished 19th, just shows what happens when you give them time to build. I said the day he was appointed he needed two seasons and I honestly thought AR would give him that. Hope we reconsider bringing him back.
Wasn't Wagner the guy who told one of his injured players to rub cheese into his injury whilst talking to his mother?

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Re: What might have been

Post by weasel » Wed Apr 18, 2018 10:14 pm

A great bit on radio 5 tonight about Guardiola, the similarities with TC are remarkable - the need for a ball playing keeper but getting the wrong one in, the way they both took the blame themselves rather than blaming the players, the way they struggled in their first season against more direct teams, they both topped the table in their first season early on before falling away. PG though had a reputation to fall back on and was given time to work out how to beat the direct teams and backed in the transfer market to get players that would fit his way of playing.
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Re: What might have been

Post by SG90 » Thu Apr 19, 2018 6:38 am

Elland back wrote:
Wed Apr 18, 2018 7:42 pm
Wasn't Wagner the guy who told one of his injured players to rub cheese into his injury whilst talking to his mother?
No that was Felix Magath.

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Re: What might have been

Post by Norm » Thu Apr 19, 2018 8:02 am

1964white wrote:
Monk did 'make a mockery' if you want to term it that way, but I believe TC didn't. It was the FA Cup for crying out loud - look at Wigan against Citeh!
Upsets happen despite how much a team will try. If Citeh wanted 4 trophies do you think they would have lost on purpose? Wigan raised their game and beat Citeh - it was a 'one-off' CUP game.

Newport learned from their 2 defeats and beat Leeds - there's no magic formula to football. The unpredictability is one of the strongest attractions of the game. I'm sure TC didn't want to lose against Newport - we led during the game, so how come he 'wanted' to lose. You keep banging on about the Newport game as if he lost on purpose, yet every other Cup Tie this season he demonstrated his will to win, until a PREMIER League opponent knocked us out of the EFL Cup.

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Re: What might have been

Post by 1964white » Thu Apr 19, 2018 9:58 am

Norm wrote:
Thu Apr 19, 2018 8:02 am
We only started with one decent recognised first-team starter in Berardi & he played out of position at CB. Yes Phillips & Lassoga (for what his poor contribution was worth) started, the form of both had dwindled with them being in & out of the side.

I knew we'd play a scratch team so I wasn't bothered about going after experiencing the time, effort, money wasted the previous season at Sutton under Monk

Until we have a manager whom takes the cup competitions seriously as our previous managers did that's me gone for the majority of cup matches. I use to attend every one but I refuse to waste £100's watching 2nd & 3rd rated team players. I didn't tick the auto-cup scheme box when applying for my season-ticket :shock: I'll pick my games if need be

Don't think I missed a JPT cup-tie, this is what our last two managers have done to my enthusiasm for certain games

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Re: What might have been

Post by Cjay » Thu Apr 19, 2018 10:42 am

Was mentioned at the time how Pep struggled first season.

Didnt realise how similar it was to TC.

Have to wonder if his name wasnt Thomas Christiansen the former Barcelona player with 1 cap for Spain but it was Xavi Hernandez, Barcelona and Spain legend.

If that was the case would the TC out brigade have got there way?

Bet not.

A name means a lot in Football, unfortunately TC had a decent career but not enough to survive on his status.

Its a shame, as mentioned when compared to other foreign managers in there 1st season TC did really well considering.

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Re: What might have been

Post by weasel » Thu Apr 19, 2018 1:51 pm

1964white wrote:
Wed Apr 18, 2018 7:15 pm
Ironic how both Monk & Christiansen made a mockery of the FA Cup in their quest for promotion & failed :(
So after the first team had played 4 league matches in just 9 days you would have played a full strength team? As it was at least 9 of the selected starting line up had started a match in the league this season - the only 2 exceptions were Grot and Sacko but both had featured as subs.

Yes most of the starting line up hadn't been starting matches but surely this was their chance to stake a claim for a starting place and they should have been more than capable of beating a team 2 divisions below. Bournemouth and Man City both lost to League 1 Wigan, Arsenal lost to Forest - it is the cup and the majority of teams these days use their fringe players not just Monk and TC.
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Re: What might have been

Post by 1964white » Thu Apr 19, 2018 2:24 pm

weasel wrote:
Thu Apr 19, 2018 1:51 pm
So after the first team had played 4 league matches in just 9 days you would have played a full strength team? As it was at least 9 of the selected starting line up had started a match in the league this season - the only 2 exceptions were Grot and Sacko but both had featured as subs.

Yes most of the starting line up hadn't been starting matches but surely this was their chance to stake a claim for a starting place and they should have been more than capable of beating a team 2 divisions below. Bournemouth and Man City both lost to League 1 Wigan, Arsenal lost to Forest - it is the cup and the majority of teams these days use their fringe players not just Monk and TC.
Had that been another league game after four in nine days he would not have selected that team
It's cheating the travelling fans. I wouldn't pay a fiver for a reserve match so why should I pay out a fortune to watch our 2nd team v a League 2 team

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Re: What might have been

Post by Elland back » Thu Apr 19, 2018 5:31 pm

SG90 wrote:
Thu Apr 19, 2018 6:38 am
No that was Felix Magath.
That's the one... :) :) :)

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Re: What might have been

Post by weasel » Thu Apr 19, 2018 8:13 pm

1964white wrote:
Thu Apr 19, 2018 2:24 pm
Had that been another league game after four in nine days he would not have selected that team
It's cheating the travelling fans. I wouldn't pay a fiver for a reserve match so why should I pay out a fortune to watch our 2nd team v a League 2 team
Yes of course he wouldn't but the league matches are of far greater importance. As it was the biggest mistake was bringing Saiz on. TC quite rightly expected the players selected to be good enough to see off a team 2 divisions below that we had already beaten with a weakened team earlier in the season.

Incidentally 5 of the team that started the FA Cup match v Newport also started the League Cup match v Newport. That would have been 6 but for the fact we had sold the back up keeper Green so the new back up keeper Lonerghan played in the FA Cup match. In addition 3 of the remaining 5 players that played in the FA Cup match hadn't been signed when we played the league cup match or they may well have played in that match. The remaining 2 players to play in the FA Cup match were Kalvin Phillips who was a regular starter or used substitute and Sacko who scored v Burnley. Incidentally Stokes started in the League Cup match so it could certainly be argued that we fielded a weaker line up for the league cup match v Newport.

Hardly like he played his first choice XI in any of the other cup matches even when playing Burnley and Leicester so fans knew exactly what to expect.
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