Groundhog Day

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Cjay
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Groundhog Day

Post by Cjay » Sun Feb 04, 2018 1:07 pm

The cliche "we will be ready next season".

Been used for 15 years at some point in the season.

Whenever early season optimism turns into realisation that its over the line is trotted out.

Fans are divided.

Some are happy with the off field stuff and signing players for the academy, building for the future.

Others are less convinced and say we are going backwards and trying to build things on the cheap.

So which is it?

If nothing changes, come the summer we finish 10th, TC and Orta are still here, we lose Jansson and/or Saiz (its highly unlikely we keep both).

But we own the ground, dont have that badge etc.

Will that be considered successful?
Last edited by Cjay on Sun Feb 04, 2018 1:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Groundhog Day

Post by 1964white » Sun Feb 04, 2018 1:17 pm

On the evidence from this season.....

NO we won't be ready to make a serious challenge in 2018/19

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Re: Groundhog Day

Post by weasel » Sun Feb 04, 2018 6:28 pm

Groundhog day is definitely the right description as it seems every season we reach a point where we think half the team isn't good enough and we need an overhaul in the summer and probably another season then of bedding in. Now I fully expect PJ to go in the summer as he will attract bids from the premiership and no matter what people say about the ambition of the club we wouldn't be able to keep him (even if we did keep him against his will would he simply down tools and effectively force a move?). Probably a couple of others two with the most likely being Saiz. Now on the plus side they have plenty of length on their contracts so at least we would get decent fees which could potentially buy 3 or 4 (maybe more) quality players - invested right then losing them could strengthen the team.

The crux though, as ever will be the level of investment in the team. At this point the issue of whether it is TC in charge next season or another manager is to a large degree irrelevant if we don't have the right squad. I would hope the bedding in period for AR was just this season and having sorted out a lot of off-field stuff the real focus will shift to the first team and that in not over-committing this season they have the funds in place and have targets lined up (rather than scrambling around as the transfer window shuts).

I have high expectations for the academy side of things.With young players it is always a bit of a gamble as to how well they will do but the way we have recruited players (either from other clubs with high reputations or paying fees) would suggest we are trying to increase our odds of getting decent players (as opposed to say simply signing up a load of 15 year olds). Given the ages and credentials of the youth signing I would expect to see a fair few pushing to be in the first team next season or the season after.This barring a huge Wolves like financial outlay and loaning of players clearly too good for the championship would seem to represent our best chance of breaking the groundhog day cycle.

Whereas this season is turning into a damp squib I definitely feel we are taking big steps forward - only time will tell though.
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Re: Groundhog Day

Post by gessa » Sun Feb 04, 2018 6:37 pm

weasel wrote:
Sun Feb 04, 2018 6:28 pm
Groundhog day is definitely the right description as it seems every season we reach a point where we think half the team isn't good enough and we need an overhaul in the summer and probably another season then of bedding in. Now I fully expect PJ to go in the summer as he will attract bids from the premiership and no matter what people say about the ambition of the club we wouldn't be able to keep him (even if we did keep him against his will would he simply down tools and effectively force a move?). Probably a couple of others two with the most likely being Saiz. Now on the plus side they have plenty of length on their contracts so at least we would get decent fees which could potentially buy 3 or 4 (maybe more) quality players - invested right then losing them could strengthen the team.

The crux though, as ever will be the level of investment in the team. At this point the issue of whether it is TC in charge next season or another manager is to a large degree irrelevant if we don't have the right squad. I would hope the bedding in period for AR was just this season and having sorted out a lot of off-field stuff the real focus will shift to the first team and that in not over-committing this season they have the funds in place and have targets lined up (rather than scrambling around as the transfer window shuts).

I have high expectations for the academy side of things.With young players it is always a bit of a gamble as to how well they will do but the way we have recruited players (either from other clubs with high reputations or paying fees) would suggest we are trying to increase our odds of getting decent players (as opposed to say simply signing up a load of 15 year olds). Given the ages and credentials of the youth signing I would expect to see a fair few pushing to be in the first team next season or the season after.This barring a huge Wolves like financial outlay and loaning of players clearly too good for the championship would seem to represent our best chance of breaking the groundhog day cycle.

Whereas this season is turning into a damp squib I definitely feel we are taking big steps forward - only time will tell though.

Tbh this is the kind of post you've been doing for a few year, so when will it happen? Not having a go but your constant balanced view is looking weak.

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Re: Groundhog Day

Post by faaip » Sun Feb 04, 2018 6:56 pm

If PJ is injured maybe holding out for the rest of the season will mean he gets forgotten by the big clubs...
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Re: Groundhog Day

Post by faaip » Sun Feb 04, 2018 7:01 pm

Again I issue the challenge what has TC done to warrant we keep him...ever? I may be biased as I'm the only one who thought why did we sign him at the time. Seemed another Hockaday reach to me ...but like Hockaday willing to give him a shot.

You acquire managers like TC if you want cheap and controllable with a 30% chance of success thrown in over 3-5 years
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Wine stained teeth don't really suit me well


Starting 11

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Alioski Vierra, Hernandez, Klich, Roofe
New CF

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Re: Groundhog Day

Post by 1964white » Sun Feb 04, 2018 7:06 pm

faaip wrote:
Sun Feb 04, 2018 6:56 pm
If PJ is injured maybe holding out for the rest of the season will mean he gets forgotten by the big clubs...
Great point :tup: with the points we have in the bag we can probably manage without Pontus for three months, a whole season would be a total disaster. Hopefully that would keep the big clubs at bay :-D

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Re: Groundhog Day

Post by weasel » Sun Feb 04, 2018 7:27 pm

That's why I say the crux is the level of investment if we are to break the cycle. Year on year we haven't had it - we have probably had just enough investment that with a bit of luck we might reach the play-offs - that was the case last year with Wood - but that ultimately every year the investment has come up short.

Like you say I have in general said the same thing every year but that doesn't make it any less true just that every year the investment hasn't been enough.
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Re: Groundhog Day

Post by rab_rant » Sun Feb 04, 2018 8:21 pm

weasel wrote:
Sun Feb 04, 2018 7:27 pm
Like you say I have in general said the same thing every year but that doesn't make it any less true just that.every year the investment hasn't been enough
I would say that the crux of the matter is not that investment has not been enough
but rather the investments we have made are Bad investments. Hopefully getting
quality players on the cheap. A million here a half a million there and very many of them
languishing in the U23's. Not a single one that has been brought in have made it
into the First team, and even Roberts at 2.5 million has a "knock" and can't play

We are more a club that sells off the jewels in the crown
(Wood Taylor Byram Cook McCormack) in recent years for big money-
If we are looking for a club policy on transfers it would seem to be
best out rubbish in, and that is not a recipe for success.
Scottish Steel and Irish Fire that's the weapon I desire.

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Re: Groundhog Day

Post by Cjay » Sun Feb 04, 2018 9:22 pm

I appreciate off field stability and can understand investing in the future, but i do feel that Radz and Orta have missed a huge opportunity this season.

I accept Wood going, i accept Taylor and i accept Bartley.

Not to bothered about Green as i think Wiedwald has, like Green last season, he has improved.

I feel we have wasted to much money, ive already repeated the lower league bargain frustration as i feel all the answers to our problems were there.

Just think the players i mentioned would have seen us promoted, and maybe even as Champions.

As it is i fear for next season.

I have no doubt Jansson will leave, maybe Saiz, maybe Vieira.

And i wouldn't blame them especially Jansson, he does love the fans and club i feel he does feel like he owed us one season since he spoke about how he considered retirement before he came here due to injuries.

He like us im sure expected progress on the pitch, and to be playing in a side really going for promotion, that hasnt happened and im wondering if his clear frustration is down to that. .

If he goes then i havent much faith in Orta to replace him properly, and i foresee another scatter gun approach, and unless we get lucky and he uncovers some gems then all i can see is more of the same.

On the plus side i think next season we will see improvement in some of the foreign lads, De Bock, Alioski, Saiz, Grot etc, so there is hope. But this season has been a huge let down and no amount of off field positives if they are positives can take away from the huge errors in the playing side.

Radz and Orta do need to take long hard looks at themselves.

This league wont get easier, its not one that is easy to escape and there comes a point where you either bite the bullet and spend good money on 3 or 4 players, or you just end up settling for 5 years of mediocrity, sell, and move on.

Give Radz the benefit of the doubt for now, since i do the same with foreign signings, but he needs to impress me next season.

At this point in time he is a cross between Bates and MC, selling our best, signing cheap foreign imports hoping to come across some gems.

The only difference is both MC and Bates had negative public images (unfairly in MC's case imo), at present fans still support Radz, but it wont last forever, he needs do do something or the fans will turn.

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