Leeds v Barnsley - Team/News/Reports/Ratings

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Re: Leeds v Barnsley - Team/News/Reports/Ratings

Post by 1964white » Sun Apr 22, 2018 7:45 am

weasel wrote:
Sun Apr 22, 2018 7:26 am
Don't forget that TC brought O'Shaugnessy in from the youth set-up. started with Eoghan Stokes, from the youth set-up, in the league cup and was regularly picking a player or two from the youth set-up to train with the first team.

As regards the non-selection of BPF it would appear to be more down to the fact TC wanted a ball playing keeper, but similar to Guardiola at City they didn't get the right one in first time. Like CJay says though 11 clean sheets from 23 matches is impressive even if he was sat reading a newspaper in some of those matches.
Once again plenty of credit for TC

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Re: Leeds v Barnsley - Team/News/Reports/Ratings

Post by 1964white » Sun Apr 22, 2018 7:47 am

weasel wrote:
Sun Apr 22, 2018 7:31 am
That is correct he continued to overlook Pearce, preferring to play right backs and central midfielders rather than him. Played O'Connor only out of neccessity and would likely have picked Lonerghan but for the injury.

Hardly looking great defensively conceding 1 per match in the last 2 matches, conveniently using a 2 game sample size there so you can ignore the 3 conceded v Preston 3 matches ago. Also the keeper winning mom for 5 matches running tells its own story.
Once again no credit for Hecky

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Re: Leeds v Barnsley - Team/News/Reports/Ratings

Post by 1964white » Sun Apr 22, 2018 7:47 am

Absolutely pathetic

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Re: Leeds v Barnsley - Team/News/Reports/Ratings

Post by weasel » Sun Apr 22, 2018 9:12 am

Like I said we scraped a win against Barnsley and all the PH supporters suddenly think he is the messiah again.
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Re: Leeds v Barnsley - Team/News/Reports/Ratings

Post by faaip » Sun Apr 22, 2018 9:52 am

weasel wrote:
Sun Apr 22, 2018 9:12 am
Like I said we scraped a win against Barnsley and all the PH supporters suddenly think he is the messiah again.
I'd stay off social media if I were you it's an indicator of exactly nothing and depends who has the brain cell that week
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Re: Leeds v Barnsley - Team/News/Reports/Ratings

Post by 1964white » Sun Apr 22, 2018 10:39 am

weasel wrote:
Sun Apr 22, 2018 9:12 am
Like I said we scraped a win against Barnsley and all the PH supporters suddenly think he is the messiah again.
No one has claimed PH is a messiah :shock:

Majority of fair-minded fans understand he has inherited a poor squad which has also been ravaged with injuries & one suspension

Not one of our main back-four/keeper didn't play v Villa & only our chief CB played against the tykes yesterday

30,000+ fans were at ER yesterday & not one chant of Hecky out....says it all !

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Re: Leeds v Barnsley - Team/News/Reports/Ratings

Post by Cjay » Sun Apr 22, 2018 1:01 pm

1964white wrote:
Sun Apr 22, 2018 7:47 am
Once again no credit for Hecky
Credit to BPF for keeping the scores down.

Dont think Hecky deserves credit when for 3 or 4 games the goalkeeper has been a standout performer.

Doesnt that show that defensively we were poor and lucky to not concede more?

As for no chants of "Hecky out".

Why would they?

Seasons gone, finished, over, caput, done,



If we give him the summer will the fans at Elland Road accept being Barnsley? Because thats likely what will happen, id bet my life that we will sign minimum 3 of there team.
Last edited by Cjay on Sun Apr 22, 2018 2:08 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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Re: Leeds v Barnsley - Team/News/Reports/Ratings

Post by faaip » Sun Apr 22, 2018 2:04 pm

Cjay wrote:
Sun Apr 22, 2018 1:01 pm
Credit to BPF for keeping the scores down.

Dont think Hecky deserves credit when for 3 or 4 games the goalkeeper has been a standout performer.

Doesnt that show that defensively we were poor and lucky to not concede more?

As for no chants of "Hecky out".

Why would they?

Seasons gone, finished, over, caput, done,

If we give him the summer will the fans at Elland Road accept being Barnsley? Because thats likely what will happen, id bet my life that we will sign minimum 3 of there team.
He was good he wasn't stand out. They fluked their goal, keeper made one great save and their sub CF missed a sitter (Bit like Ekuban and Grot who have missed like 7 in the last 4/5 games are you calling that unlucky for us?) We created two good goals, dominated possession most of the time and played some nice football
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Re: Leeds v Barnsley - Team/News/Reports/Ratings

Post by Cjay » Sun Apr 22, 2018 2:15 pm

faaip wrote:
Sun Apr 22, 2018 2:04 pm
He was good he wasn't stand out. They fluked their goal, keeper made one great save and their sub CF missed a sitter (Bit like Ekuban and Grot who have missed like 7 in the last 4/5 games are you calling that unlucky for us?) We created two good goals, dominated possession most of the time and played some nice football
Yes, it is unlucky that Grot and Ekuban missed those chances, but that doesnt change that in those 4 or 5 games we could have conceded a lot more to.

There cf had that one awful miss, they had a penalty shout (i thought it was myself), there cf had another decent chance where he couldnt sort his feet out, they had the one Jansson let go and BPF had to save, they had that one BPF saved really well, they had the slightly offside goal,

Pleased to win as always, but how many other chances did we create? Cant think of 1

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Re: Leeds v Barnsley - Team/News/Reports/Ratings

Post by faaip » Sun Apr 22, 2018 3:37 pm

Cjay wrote:
Sun Apr 22, 2018 2:15 pm
Yes, it is unlucky that Grot and Ekuban missed those chances, but that doesnt change that in those 4 or 5 games we could have conceded a lot more to.

There cf had that one awful miss, they had a penalty shout (i thought it was myself), there cf had another decent chance where he couldnt sort his feet out, they had the one Jansson let go and BPF had to save, they had that one BPF saved really well, they had the slightly offside goal,

Pleased to win as always, but how many other chances did we create? Cant think of 1
If you go back and rewatch some of those early wins you'll also see where the oppo could have should have scored. Very few teams dominate every team 100% of the time every game. We've just seen shock losses to a few of the top 6/7 recently.

It's football, teams fight back, create opportunities, go on the attack as the leading team sits back a bit. FWIW I don't think Barnsley have gotten better or worse over the season. We beat them 2-0 at their place. Keeper should have saved Saiz shot and Alioski with an effort from outside the box curled low into the corner. No real clear cut well fashioned opportunities, they forged a couple of chances themselves. Another day 0-0.
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Re: Leeds v Barnsley - Team/News/Reports/Ratings

Post by Gandalf » Sun Apr 22, 2018 3:43 pm

Cjay wrote:
Sun Apr 22, 2018 2:15 pm
Pleased to win as always
Your comments don't really bear that out. Seems like you would rather have had a loss to put more pressure on Heck. Ditto Weasel and Clive.
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Re: Leeds v Barnsley - Team/News/Reports/Ratings

Post by weasel » Sun Apr 22, 2018 3:45 pm

1964white wrote:
Sun Apr 22, 2018 7:45 am
Once again plenty of credit for TC
That's right i give credit to a manager that had us playing great football at times and looking like a team capable of getting promoted. On our day we were more than a match for any team with TC making the most out of the squad at his disposal. Apparently though when we lost under TC it was all his fault and not that the squad wasn't good enough.

1964white wrote:
Sun Apr 22, 2018 7:47 am
Once again no credit for Hecky
That's right I give no credit to a manager that has had us playing god awful football for all but a few minutes in every game and making us look like a team only capable of getting relegated. On each matchday we look capable of losing to any team with PH getting nothing extra out of the squad at his disposal. Apparently though when we lose under PH though it is not his fault as the squad is not good enough.
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Re: Leeds v Barnsley - Team/News/Reports/Ratings

Post by Cjay » Sun Apr 22, 2018 5:34 pm

Gandalf wrote:
Sun Apr 22, 2018 3:43 pm
Your comments don't really bear that out. Seems like you would rather have had a loss to put more pressure on Heck. Ditto Weasel and Clive.
100% want Heck out but i can wait till the end of the season.

Always pleased to win, regardless of the manager.

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Re: Leeds v Barnsley - Team/News/Reports/Ratings

Post by Cjay » Sun Apr 22, 2018 5:36 pm

faaip wrote:
Sun Apr 22, 2018 3:37 pm
If you go back and rewatch some of those early wins you'll also see where the oppo could have should have scored. Very few teams dominate every team 100% of the time every game. We've just seen shock losses to a few of the top 6/7 recently.

It's football, teams fight back, create opportunities, go on the attack as the leading team sits back a bit. FWIW I don't think Barnsley have gotten better or worse over the season. We beat them 2-0 at their place. Keeper should have saved Saiz shot and Alioski with an effort from outside the box curled low into the corner. No real clear cut well fashioned opportunities, they forged a couple of chances themselves. Another day 0-0.
Your right, other games we could have conceded more and we could have scored more, is what it is.

Just not going to get overly excited about beating a side who are likely to be relegated.

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Re: Leeds v Barnsley - Team/News/Reports/Ratings

Post by fred » Sun Apr 22, 2018 6:55 pm

weasel wrote:
Sun Apr 22, 2018 7:26 am
Don't forget that TC brought O'Shaugnessy in from the youth set-up. started with Eoghan Stokes, from the youth set-up, in the league cup and was regularly picking a player or two from the youth set-up to train with the first team.
But wasn`t that part of the strategy he had to follow? Radz/Orta seem to hope that the young players will turn out to be a vital part of Leeds future success, as they haven`t got the budget to buy top players?
And didn`t TC follow the same `logic` as Heck, by choosing those youngsters playing in the positions the first teeam had problems to fill? Good luck for Heck, that the right positions were being asked to fill by youngsters...thosse correlated with (some) of the best young players as it seems...

As regards the non-selection of BPF it would appear to be more down to the fact TC wanted a ball playing keeper, but similar to Guardiola at City they didn't get the right one in first time. Like CJay says though 11 clean sheets from 23 matches is impressive even if he was sat reading a newspaper in some of those matches.
Why the f**k should it be impressing for a keeper to get 11 clean sheets if the opponent had few goal chances? Check the stats I recommend on that. Hard to believe someone would bring this `argument` forward in defense of Wiedwald.
And in regard to TC: maybe you are right, maybe you aren`t. But: isn`t BPF capable to play the ball from behind, throwing with his hands? And why did he choose Lonergan to replace Wiedwald? Lonergan must be the worst ball playing keeper of the three. And why bring back Wiedwald after Lonergan? As if Wiedwald was a better keeper after that short brake.

All hindsight? Yes, a lot. And that`s part of my point. We don`t know why TC, Heck, Radz/Orta do/did this or that and they maybe couldn`t have the knowledge we have now in hindsight. (Butmaybe they could have or should have.)
But if one considered on which facts and stats the own opinions were based on, one couldn`t have a legit opinion (not talking about obvious BS) in many cases, and isn`t that the whole point of football talk: everyone can have his own opinion. lol
Last edited by fred on Sun Apr 22, 2018 7:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Leeds v Barnsley - Team/News/Reports/Ratings

Post by fred » Sun Apr 22, 2018 7:14 pm

Cjay wrote:
Sun Apr 22, 2018 3:42 am
I saw BPF for our u23s and must say i didn't rate him.
Underlining my Argument.
Suspect PH played him out of necessity, Lonners was injured and anyone could see by the end Wiedwald's confidence was shot to bits.
Anyone can suspect anything, underlining my argument. I suspect that he realized that BPF couldn`t be worse than the other two. lol
Under TC for all the criticism of Wiedwald he had 11 clean sheets in 23 league games, conceded less then 1 goal a game. So i suspect that is why TC never played BPF.
Maybe. But despite those clean sheets Wiedwald had showed that he had major weaknesses which cought up with him not much later. (The Newport defeat with all ist implications was the end of TC and Wiedwald I suspect.)
Under Hecky Felix conceded 9 in 5 games with 1 clean sheet.
Yes. See my answer above. (Check the stats which maybe enable to interprete the clean sheets.)
Can speculate why but for whatever reason Heckingbottom arrival coincided with Wiedwald folding.
Those are concrete facts :)
lol...yeah, but stats say not much as such most of the time. Stats need to be interpreted in 95% of the cases. (Wiedwald had a clean sheet...he must have played good...yeah? Wiedwald conceded 3 goals...he must have played bad...yeah?)
And: Wiedwald folded with the arrival of Heck? Get the basic facts right first, mate. (Why did TC replace him with Lonergan?)
Dont know who recommended to anyone but i think its literally necessity, we needed a gk and a left back, Anita was poo, De Bock and Berardi were out, Dallas was crap at full back, Hecky had no other choice.
Wrong. He could have played Wiedwald, argumenting that it wasn`t an ideal time to play BPF. And EXACTLY that was what he suggested before he played him all the same!
In regard to Peirce: yes, he was forced to play him. But let`s be honest: 75% of all youngsters rely on a first team players not being available. It`s a risk for any manager to bring a young player in if a regular first teamer is available, unless: a) the first teamer is playing total crap (as Wiedwald was), and/or b) it is part of the strategy from the bosses to strenghen the first team with own youngsters in the longer run. (Problem here: if Orta brought in a player for a position as Wiedwald who turns out to be crap and replacing him with a young player would make obvious what a crap player had brought in...many parties with their own interests, and not necessarily in harmony with the interest of playing the best possible eleven.)
Last edited by fred on Sun Apr 22, 2018 7:33 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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Re: Leeds v Barnsley - Team/News/Reports/Ratings

Post by faaip » Sun Apr 22, 2018 7:19 pm

Cjay wrote:
Sun Apr 22, 2018 5:36 pm
Your right, other games we could have conceded more and we could have scored more, is what it is.

Just not going to get overly excited about beating a side who are likely to be relegated.
Nor losing to a side who are heading into the playoffs ...or Wolves who have thrown a lot on money into getting promoted over the last few years
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Re: Leeds v Barnsley - Team/News/Reports/Ratings

Post by Cjay » Sun Apr 22, 2018 7:35 pm

fred wrote:
Sun Apr 22, 2018 7:14 pm
Underlining my Argument.


Anyone can suspect anything, underlining my argument. I suspect that he realized that BPF couldn`t be worse than the other two. lol


Maybe. But despite those clean sheets Wiedwald had showed that he had major weaknesses which cought up with him not much later. (The Newport defeat with all ist implications was the end of TC and Wiedwald I suspect.)


Yes. See my answer above. (Check the stats which maybe enable to interprete the clean sheets.)



lol...yeah, but stats say not much as such most of the time. Stats need to be interpreted in 95% of the cases. (Wiedwald had a clean sheet...he must have played good...yeah? Wiedwald conceded 3 goals...he must have played bad...yeah?)
And: Wiedwald folded with the arrival of Heck? Get the basic facts right first, mate. (Why did TC replace him with Lonergan?)


Wrong. He could have played Wiedwald, argumenting that it wasn`t an ideal time to play BPF. And EXACTLY that was what he suggested before he played him all the same!
In regard to Peirce: yes, he was forced to play him. But let`s be honest: 75% of all youngsters rely on a first team players not being available. It`s a risk for any manager to bring a young player in if a regular first teamer is available, unless: a) the first teamer is playing total crap (as Wiedwald was), and/or b) it is part of the strategy from the bosses to strenghen the first team with own youngsters in the longer run. (Problem here: if Orta brought in a player for a position as Wiedwald who turns out to be crap and replacing him with a young player would make obvious what a crap player had brought in...many parties with their own interests, and not necessarily in harmony with the interest of playing the best possible eleven.)
What is your argument?

Because I'm getting confused with what point your trying to make.

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Re: Leeds v Barnsley - Team/News/Reports/Ratings

Post by Cjay » Sun Apr 22, 2018 7:37 pm

faaip wrote:
Sun Apr 22, 2018 7:19 pm
Nor losing to a side who are heading into the playoffs ...or Wolves who have thrown a lot on money into getting promoted over the last few years
Or narrowly beating 21st placed Bolton?
Not beating relegated Sunderland at home?

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Re: Leeds v Barnsley - Team/News/Reports/Ratings

Post by fred » Sun Apr 22, 2018 7:39 pm

Cjay wrote:
Sun Apr 22, 2018 7:35 pm
What is your argument?

Because I'm getting confused with what point your trying to make.
Not my fault mate. Read again: it is very, very obvious what my point is. A bit of a red herring my Impression.

But whatever: the whole talk what Heck is worth and if he is better or worse than TC is based on arguments which are based mostly on wrong and/or insufficient facts and/or stats interpreted in one owns favour (that is the `argument` one tries to reason for.)

And this point I have reasoned for with quite a few examples demonstrating the existence above mentioned flaws.
Last edited by fred on Sun Apr 22, 2018 7:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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