Marcelo Bielsa, A Reality Check

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Marcelo Bielsa, A Reality Check

Post by YorkshireSquare » Wed Oct 23, 2019 11:34 am



By its very nature football is a passionate game, it evokes emotion and debate. None more so than the Bamford versus Nketiah debate. On Tuesday night against Preston Bamford fluffed his lines yet again, six shots none of which were on target, whilst Eddie saved the day with a 87th minute equaliser. The debate raged, be it on the coaches home or on social media, who should start? Bamford or Nketiah? Some questioned Marcelo Bielsa’s decisions, his methods, some even questioned his future at the club. But in the shadow of a draw that felt like two points dropped, as emotions run high we should take a reality check.

To put things into context we are second in the Championship, two points of the leaders having won one more game than at the same stage last season. We have never been below fifth with Bielsa as head coach. He has been an inspiration, a genius who took a mid-table team and turned them into promotion contenders, without him we fall away again. Could anyone do better with the current squad we have? Bielsa has brought not just the playing side but the entire club forward in leaps and bounds since he came in last summer.

Of course Bielsa is not perfect, he is an idealist, loyal to his players, perhaps stubborn. The fans views are born out of frustration at this stubbornness. A frustration from dominating games but not scoring, from making the same mistakes as last season, from seeing us miss out on promotion again. As supporters it’s only right we have our say, shout from the stands, argue in the pub, debate on social media. But Marcelo Bielsa is the man with the vision, with the plan and so far it has served us well. Standing second in a below par Championship we have every chance of gaining promotion and Marcelo Bielsa is the man to get us there.

He may need to be more flexible but we certainly shouldn’t be calling for his head.
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Re: Bielsa, How the tide turns?

Post by Chilli D » Wed Oct 23, 2019 11:43 am

YorkshireSquare wrote:
Wed Oct 23, 2019 11:34 am
This Eddie vs Bamford debate has certainly caused strong feelings, even people calling Bielsa to go for his stubbornness.

To put things into context we are 2nd in the Championship, 1 point of the leaders having won 1 more game than at the same stage as last season. We have never been below 5th with Bielsa in charge.

Is it really right to call for him to go? Would anyone else get the same level of performance from this group? Who would replace him?
Ask SG, he has all the answers apparently

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Re: Bielsa, How the tide turns?

Post by lufc1304 » Wed Oct 23, 2019 12:08 pm

Absolute BS that Bielsa should go, those calling for his head obviously have short memories. Do they want Hockaday back? Maybe Feckinarse or Colin? Bielsa has brought not just the playing side but the entire club forward in leaps and bounds since he came in last summer. Yes, the lack of a cutting edge and his stubbornness is frustrating at times, but I personally wouldn't swap him for any other manager in the Championship. We have some serious throbbers amongst our support
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Re: Bielsa, How the tide turns?

Post by SG90 » Wed Oct 23, 2019 12:08 pm

Chilli D wrote:
Wed Oct 23, 2019 11:43 am
Ask SG, he has all the answers apparently
I haven't asked for him to be sacked, but I think it's pretty arrogant to not make any changes and just think things will change. The longer this goes on, we won't go up, as we will keep dropping points. It's a huge investment we are making and imo, he is the one costing us points with his refusal to change things or make changes earlier. It's a complete reversal from what we saw last season, when he made subs early (Phillips at Swansea after 20 mins) if it's not working or give youth a chance. Now he plays players out of position just because they are experienced, rather than play youth in their position.
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Re: Bielsa, How the tide turns?

Post by NorfolkWhite » Wed Oct 23, 2019 12:09 pm

YorkshireSquare wrote:
Wed Oct 23, 2019 11:34 am
This Eddie vs Bamford debate has certainly caused strong feelings, even people calling Bielsa to go for his stubbornness.

To put things into context we are 2nd in the Championship, 1 point of the leaders having won 1 more game than at the same stage as last season. We have never been below 5th with Bielsa in charge.

Is it really right to call for him to go? Would anyone else get the same level of performance from this group? Who would replace him?
Would be one of our all time worst decisions if he were to go.

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Re: Bielsa, How the tide turns?

Post by YorkshireSquare » Wed Oct 23, 2019 12:11 pm

SG90 wrote:
Wed Oct 23, 2019 12:08 pm
I haven't asked for him to be sacked, but I think it's pretty arrogant to not make any changes and just think things will change. The longer this goes on, we won't go up, as we will keep dropping points. It's a huge investment we are making and imo, he is the one costing us points with his refusal to change things or make changes earlier. It's a complete reversal from what we saw last season, when he made subs early (Phillips at Swansea after 20 mins) if it's not working or give youth a chance. Now he plays players out of position just because they are experienced, rather than play youth in their position.

I think some stats weasel produced actually prove that (prior to last night at least) more often that when we had made subs we dropped more points than we picked up.
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Re: Bielsa, How the tide turns?

Post by 1964white » Wed Oct 23, 2019 12:11 pm

Not at all

Bielsa goes & we'll be in the mire again

Marcelo has made a rod for his own back though when it is blatantly obvious where the problem lies within our squad & end results.

How many points have we chucked away not only this season but last season too!

And still our attacking players struggle to shoot/head effectively, six chances last night & we failed to work their keeper Rudd until Nketiah out jumped Rafferty with a looping header into the net with only his second touch.

Is it any wonder our fans are frustrated ? We can see it so surely a man of Bielsa's pedigree can.

Time for the great man to resolve this long term problem

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Re: Bielsa, How the tide turns?

Post by NorfolkWhite » Wed Oct 23, 2019 12:12 pm

lufc1304 wrote:
Wed Oct 23, 2019 12:08 pm
Absolute BS that Bielsa should go, those calling for his head obviously have short memories. Do they want Hockaday back? Maybe Feckinarse or Colin? Bielsa has brought not just the playing side but the entire club forward in leaps and bounds since he came in last summer. Yes, the lack of a cutting edge and his stubbornness is frustrating at times, but I personally wouldn't swap him for any other manager in the Championship. We have some serious throbbers amongst our support
^This

+ there aren’t many I would take in the Premiership over him either.

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Re: Bielsa, How the tide turns?

Post by SG90 » Wed Oct 23, 2019 12:15 pm

Who has called for him to go? Read the thread and everyone was pssed off but no is calling for him to be sacked. Just the usual overreaction.
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Re: Bielsa, How the tide turns?

Post by NorfolkWhite » Wed Oct 23, 2019 12:20 pm

SG90 wrote:
Wed Oct 23, 2019 12:15 pm
Who has called for him to go? Read the thread and everyone was pssed off but no is calling for him to be sacked. Just the usual overreaction.
“If Bielsa is unwilling / unable to rotate teams and change tactics, I'm really sorry, but he should go!”

Quote from EB in the match thread.

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Re: Bielsa, How the tide turns?

Post by SG90 » Wed Oct 23, 2019 12:27 pm

NorfolkWhite wrote:
Wed Oct 23, 2019 12:20 pm
“If Bielsa is unwilling / unable to rotate teams and change tactics, I'm really sorry, but he should go!”

Quote from EB in the match thread.

I think he means more in the long run, rather than right now. Plus he is likely to leave if we don't go up anyway.
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Re: Bielsa, How the tide turns?

Post by YorkshireSquare » Wed Oct 23, 2019 12:29 pm

SG90 wrote:
Wed Oct 23, 2019 12:15 pm
Who has called for him to go? Read the thread and everyone was pssed off but no is calling for him to be sacked. Just the usual overreaction.

Seen plenty on Twitter
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Re: Bielsa, How the tide turns?

Post by SG90 » Wed Oct 23, 2019 12:59 pm

YorkshireSquare wrote:
Wed Oct 23, 2019 12:29 pm
Seen plenty on Twitter
Twitter is embarrassing though.
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Re: Bielsa, How the tide turns?

Post by danhirons » Wed Oct 23, 2019 1:03 pm

Don't want him to go at all but his stubbornness is starting to frustrate me and i think that there's a good chance we won't go up because of it.

He's likely to leave at the end of the season if we don't go up anyway. I'd be absolutely stunned if he left or the club got rid of him before then.

Done an absolutely stellar job so far, but far from perfect. I think the frustrating issue is that we are so close to running away with the league but just can't seem to take that extra step forward. We're dominating games and playing generally so well but not getting as many points as our general performances deserve - which I think is obviously frustrating for the fans.

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Re: Bielsa, How the tide turns?

Post by faaip » Wed Oct 23, 2019 1:10 pm

YorkshireSquare wrote:
Wed Oct 23, 2019 12:11 pm
I think some stats weasel produced actually prove that (prior to last night at least) more often that when we had made subs we dropped more points than we picked up.
Yes and you know how stats can be easily manipulated...It's the old frogs legs school of reasoning imo..
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Re: Bielsa, How the tide turns?

Post by faaip » Wed Oct 23, 2019 1:14 pm

If we fail to go up and assuming we don't sack him end of season he'll owe us a third season..He believes in continuity and that has to start at the top

There should be no talk of sacking him at all, I've not read anyone saying so here including SG...
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Re: Bielsa, How the tide turns?

Post by Irish Ian » Wed Oct 23, 2019 1:23 pm

Bielsa came to Leeds under his own terms and will only leave under his terms I would think.
When he joined I didnt think he would last 6 months but am glad he has outstayed my cynicism.

This is all about him not being prepared to change a formula he is convinced will ultimately pay off.
But Athletico Bilbao were not a high scoring side even when they were going well.


Personally I dont think his tactics will bring us top two, but it wont stop me supporting club I have been with for 50 years. And I agree that we would be screwed if he walked away.

But even good managers need to change things. I think it was Conte at Chelsea ( might be wrong about who) changed to 3 at the back after his side weren't getting the results needed, and his team never looked back.

I think all this side needs is a tweak.

And oh yes, Pablo back.
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Marcelo Bielsa.

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Re: Bielsa, How the tide turns?

Post by rab_rant » Wed Oct 23, 2019 1:54 pm

YorkshireSquare wrote:
Wed Oct 23, 2019 12:29 pm
Seen plenty on Twitter
And therein lies the problem. It would seem that they perceive their tweets
as being insights into the problems at Leeds, whereas in actual fact they are
acting as fifth columnists... a small group of people who undermine the
will of the larger group from within.

What happens is lazy journalists instead of writing well reasoned articles
trawl the interwebs for the most salacious tweets and stack them on top
of each other to give the impression that this is the consensus of opinion.
It has become nauseating to read the headlines from NewsNow, and if your
read these headlines you would think Leeds are languishing at the bottom
of the table instead of being second in the league and one point off the top.

Many fans slam ace who is simply not good enough.
Bielsa on why he won't listen to fans
Many Leeds fans blast absolutely awful ace
Many Leeds fans hammer €2m man after Preston draw
Some Leeds fans slating shocking Bielsa signing


These toxic opinions are like a swell building up on the ocean but the fear is that
if unchecked they will build up a momentum that will soon be crashing waves
beyond the control of anybody, and their misinformed opinions will be the demise of Bielsa


In chaos theory there is always a tipping point before a catastrophe. For example
before an avalanche happens there is an intolerable tension built up in the system
and one snowflake falls and the weight of it precipitates the avalanche. Or in common
parlance "the final straw that breaks the camels back"

In itself the final straw is of small consequence if taken separately... it is the accumulation
of tweets that could bring about a disaster that no one wants or could have foreseen.
Be careful what you wish for you just might get it... and the aftermath of an avalanche
or a tidal wave is not a pretty sight.
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Re: Bielsa, How the tide turns?

Post by SG90 » Wed Oct 23, 2019 2:03 pm

I think most of it is just born from frustration and fear. These are the same things that stopped us going up last year and it's not like they can't be rectified. It's not like we need to go out and spend £100m. Most fans would start Nketiah, or at least had him come on by HT if not 60 mins. I just think our players are too defensive for attacking football. Neither Forshaw or Dallas are 10s, and our wingers are defensive rather than attacking. I'd like to see the likes of Clarke, Bogusz, Kun given a bit of a chance, as they are more direct and it offers something different rather than the predictable team we are now.
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Re: Bielsa, How the tide turns?

Post by Cjay » Wed Oct 23, 2019 3:22 pm

I dont think anyone wants MB sacked really, as SG says though people are frustrated and worried.

After last seasons end i dont think anyone can say worry isnt justified and christ knows what will happen if we arent promoted this season.

I always try to remember that MB hasnt got the players HE wanted.

Matej Vydra.
Dan James
Ryan Kent.

Take Bamford, Harrison and Dallas out and stick those 3 in and things look a lot rosier, not to mention Vieira who he didnt want sold and even Jansson (depending what you believe).

So i think the board are where my frustration lays more so then MB.

I dont think anyone could do better then MB has with this squad.

MB isnt perfect, he is an idealist, he probably if anything is managing players beneath him in the sense his ideals and tactics and do plan A better are what the best teams do, its what Liverpool do its what City do and Barcelona.

Its not something that is ideally suited to limited 2nd division players who imo did the best they could last season, i dont expect improvement but the fan in me demands it because of last season if that makes sense.

MB probably should rotate more, he probably should have a deeper squad, he probably should drop players after prolonged poor form. But he never has before, you know what you are getting with Bielsa, he has infuriated fanbases before. Bilbao, Marseille and Lille fans were all fuming with him at times if you read back, but 2 of those fanbases look backon his time now with great admiration which os how i think we will regardless.

Ultimately we have to get promoted this season, anything less is a failure now and i think MB would agree with that and without it he certainly wont be here next season.

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