Coronavirus

[Norm]

True Rab - thanks to you and Sara for ferreting this out.
I've read several articles on this and none, so far, support the draconian measures so far taken and the even more draconian measures possibly to follow.

[Sara]

From what's emerging so far, excess mortality figures seem to be almost zero in every country affected.

Ultimately, this is the only measure of the impact of the virus, otherwise it is indistinguishable from seasonal colds and flu, pre-existing medical conditions, pollution, old age etc.

This goes into more detail about the problem with the way the figures are being interpreted and reported:

https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/how ... 19-deaths-

[rab_rant]

From what's emerging so far, excess mortality figures seem to be almost zero in every country affected.

Ultimately, this is the only measure of the impact of the virus, otherwise it is indistinguishable from seasonal colds and flu, pre-existing medical conditions, pollution, old age etc.

This goes into more detail about the problem with the way the figures are being interpreted and reported:

https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/how ... 19-deaths-

Lord Sumption The real problem is that when human societies lose their freedom, it's not usually because tyrants have taken it away. It's usually because people willingly surrender their freedom in return for protection against some external threat. And the threat is usually a real threat but usually exaggerated. That's what I fear we are seeing now. The pressure on politicians has come from the public. They want action. They don't pause to ask whether the action will work. They don't ask themselves whether the cost will be worth paying. They want action anyway. And anyone who has studied history will recognise here the classic symptoms of collective hysteria. Hysteria is infectious. We are working ourselves up into a lather in which we exaggerate the threat and stop asking ourselves whether the cure may be worse than the disease. 

Sent from my SM-G903F using Tapatalk

[Sara]

You express my sentiments and concerns precisely, Rab.

I was being partly flippant in my comment about the succession of 'threats' we are urged to react to, but you can see the pattern. Who is talking about climate change now? Greta Thunberg has gone quiet, is she ill? Is the apocalypse cancelled whilst we are all busy trying not to cough on each other?

My stance at the start of this was that we should question the justification for any move towards authoritarian control. Already it is emerging that the panic has, in all likelihood, been wildly exaggerated.

We are living in difficult and uncertain times. Old securities have been swept away and our future hangs in the balance in so many ways. I suspect we are witnessing the start of far more drastic changes to come. All the more important to keep our heads, and approach these situations in a balanced and rational way. What hope of that, ay?

[gessa]

13 year old with no underlying health problems dies in UK,following a 14 yr old in Spain and a 16 yr old in France, not just the vulnerable dying of this

[Sara]

13 year old with no underlying health problems dies in UK,following a 14 yr old in Spain and a 16 yr old in France, not just the vulnerable dying of this

If, and it's a big if, for the reasons explained in the Spectator article, these deaths were caused by Covid and Covid alone, then they are absolute outliers.

It is hugely irresponsible to sensationalise these sad deaths, and use them to exaggerate the threat. They really do have to be taken in perspective.

[gessa]

If, and it's a big if, for the reasons explained in the Spectator article, these deaths were caused by Covid and Covid alone, then they are absolute outliers.

It is hugely irresponsible to sensationalise these sad deaths, and use them to exaggerate the threat. They really do have to be taken in perspective.

No one's sensationalising them, they're not just outliners, an increasing number of people are dying who don't have underlying health problems, including medical staff.
But it's ok, it's just a bit of flu.

[Mick Jones shoulder]

Think you will find it's the amount of hospital admissions at one time that is the big problem. Cov19 isn't the killer it's the associated issues.

[rich_leeds64]

If, and it's a big if, for the reasons explained in the Spectator article, these deaths were caused by Covid and Covid alone, then they are absolute outliers.

It is hugely irresponsible to sensationalise these sad deaths, and use them to exaggerate the threat. They really do have to be taken in perspective.

I don’t think anyone is exaggerating the fact that 1,789 people have died already in the UK as a result of Covid-19, I feel they are publicising the younger deaths to highlight that not only older people but it can kill anyone of any age and it might strike home to some who choose to ignore advice and some who believe it’s an overreaction and it won’t affect me. I understand many will get the virus and suffer nothing more than feeling slightly off it, but these are most likely the people who are spreading it from one to another.
I don’t believe for one minute it’s a plan to control us all but we all have our own views on it.

[Sara]

Would those claiming to know the causes of specific deaths, or to know precise numbers, care to share their evidence for that?

I'm not saying it's a plan to control us all, I'm saying the evidence doesn't back the claims that are being made, or justify the actions that are being taken.

[gessa]

I wonder if the people who claim there is a massive over reaction to this, can show evidence of how many of the deaths would have occured anyway.

[Sara]

I wonder if the people who claim there is a massive over reaction to this, can show evidence of how many of the deaths would have occured anyway.

Have you looked at the Spectator and the Swiss doctor links? Fairly detailed information from experts on the ground how the figures are being distorted.

You can show how many deaths would have occurred anyway by making comparison with the usual annual death stats. The signifying figure is excess mortality. Again, it's in the Spectator article.

[gessa]

And they're the font of all wisdom.

[Mick Jones shoulder]

Your wasting your time buddy, think the X Files are on later

[rich_leeds64]

500 more deaths today including a doctor who came out of retirement to help.

But I’m sure some will claim the figures are being distorted.

[weasel]

The figures are being greatly distorted as every death if being reported as a Corona death if the person had the virus. However the vast majority of these deaths would have happened regardless. That is the crux of the issue as just because someone has the virus doesn't mean it is the biggest single factor to their death. Even that Neil fella that the govt wheel out has backtracked from his 500,000 to just 20,000 and now to less than 7000 (out of that 20,000) people that will die directly due to the virus. Not saying that 7000 people dying isn't bad but that is less than die from common colds.

The media is desperate to have young people die as it ramps up the panic. Just last week they had that young girl (think she was 19 or 21 and looked like a model) plastered all over the BBC and papers saying she had died of the virus. Turns out she didn't die of the virus but it got reported that way as a family member had said she'd had a cough. Didn't see much in the media about the fact that she hadn't died due to the virus (she had a heart attack) or even have the virus. That is why we need to be careful as this young lad that has died may well have died for other reasons and only the autopsy will show that. However regardless if he died of something else he will statistically have died of the Corona Virus simply because he had it. It is like if I had a heart attack but at the time also had a bit of a cold it wouldn't have been the cold that killed me but the heart attack. The cold wouldn't have helped but it wouldn't have been the single biggest factor to my death.

The people in the articles Sara has kindly provided links to are mainly medical experts, professors and the like. They aren't anti government type figures who have a political agenda but experts in viruses or other relevant fields.

[Mick Jones shoulder]

Posted thr Dr Lee article last week on 606 I just thought it a different take on the situation no more right or wrong than many more to be fair.

My brother (microbiologist /etc etc) thought herd immunity and taking your chances, the way every other species deals with things would be costly. He is 70 bye the way so would probably be dead. The human race is pretty special though so who knows the outcome of this.

Planet is improving though look on the brightside

[1964white]

500 more deaths today including a doctor who came out of retirement to help.

But I’m sure some will claim the figures are being distorted.

Those medics who came out of retirement to assist the NHS are heroes Rich imo!

[rab_rant]

What are these the symptoms of?

Surprisingly it has nothing to do with Covid19.

It is the symptoms of Mass Hysteria.
Those whom the gods would destroy first make mad.

Sent from my SM-G903F using Tapatalk

[BobHirst]

Rab, Sarah and any other contrarians.
I have the power to make you king or queen of the world.
ZAP
King Rab and queen Sarah what are your specific plans, if any, for dealing with the global issue of Coroanvirus?
I promise to ZAP you back after reading your plans