Concerning Transfer Policy

For everything Leeds United related and everything not - Have your say... the Marching on Together way!
Forum rules
Please be sure you are acquainted with the forum rules outlined within our FAQs.

Help support the site by using our Amazon Affiliate link when making any purchases from Amazon.
Cjay
Superstar
Superstar
Posts: 8378
Joined: Tue Aug 01, 2017 3:01 pm

Concerning Transfer Policy

Post by Cjay » Mon Jun 17, 2019 12:53 pm

Anyone else find our plans for this transfer window a little bit worrying? :duno:

All reports indicate most if not all our signings will be loans, at best maybe 1 or 2 cheap punts from abroad but largely it seems Premier League loans are the plan.

A sale is probably going to be included somewhere to so that the club can function.

Given our track record its likely all the loan signings will be straight loans, no option to buy, if we do have an option to buy it will likely be dependent on promotion, no promotion then no purchase.

So hypothetically we may loan Helder Costa, not for nothing, he will cost a few million at least in fees as will any loans of that ilk, we spent £5mil on last seasons loans and they weren't exactly top class loans so if we plan on loans of the class Villa signed for example then our board need to forget this idea of it being cheap, it wont be (which in itself is a concern because we have balked at paying the required price for the best loans before).

So aside from it not being cheap if you want the best loans, since any future purchase if one is available will likely be dependent on promotion then it is basically all or bust.

Think about Villa, say they didnt go up.
Last season they paid just for the loans.
Yannick Bolasie, all of his £70k wages for half a season.
Tammy Abraham-A good chunk of his £50k wages plus a small loan fee (£1mil is reported) and £2mil to keep him in January when Wolves came calling.
El Ghazi- £2mil loan fee and all of his £30k wages (Lille needed the money).
Tyrone Mings- £1mil loan fee plus his £25k wages.

On top of that there was Kortney Hause and Axel Tuanzebe

So if those fees are accurate thats about £12million give or take.

So Villa dont go up, all those players leave, 4 of those were first 11 players, Abraham, Tuanzebe, Mings and El Ghazi, Hause was a first choice 18 player to, so thats 5 out of 18 gone for a start and the club are £12mil worse off for nothing.

Then to raise funds they have to sell, so Grealish goes for example, thats 6 out of 18 gone. But Villa couldnt spend all the money from Grealish, they have a £12mil loan cost to cover first, then any other losses the club is making regarding ffp, they have to get that in order to.

So eventually all the money is swallowed up, the club is 6 first 18 players down on the previous season, so maybe they have to sell someone else to actually have some money to spend to get recruits in, thats 7 players down.

The reason i use Villa is we are rumoured to be after 4 loans to improve our first choice 18, Villa had come the end of the season about 4 loans in there first choice 18.

It worked out for Villa and maybe it would for us to, then happy days.

But the pessimist in me cant help thinking about the alternative for us, what if it doesnt work out?

We are left with huge loan cost to cover, we lose Bielsa, we have a lot of players if nothing changes from now out of contract next summer, Roofe, Hernandez, Klich, Dallas, Coyle, BPF, Jordan Stevens. And then just 12 months later Phillips, ALi, Douglas, Ayling, Cooper, Shacks, Clarke, Edmondson and more.

As we have seen this season, players will want wage rises especially if they are first choice players, Klich will want one, Roofe wants one, Hernandez will probably retire but BPF wants one, Stevens may feel he deserves some reward to and then we have the 12 month ones, all of them you would think have a case for wage rises.

The loan only policy imo is a horribly risky idea because it tends to be expensive (if you want the best loans which we should)and it is a 1 shot deal, if it goes wrong you fork out tons of money effectively for nothing and then you lose what may have been 3 or 4 first choice players and have to find a way to replace them, so you have to sell more first team players to do that.

And then we would have to find money to keep other first teamers who are out or nearly out of contract, if we dont then we have to sell those probably at reduced fees and replace them to.

This is a very long winded way of saying " i dont like straight loan deals" but that is really all i wanted to say :lol:

User avatar
herefordbornleedsboy
Reserve Player
Reserve Player
Posts: 402
Joined: Mon Jun 14, 2010 9:42 am
Location: Hereford

Re: Concerning Transfer Policy

Post by herefordbornleedsboy » Mon Jun 17, 2019 1:34 pm

Absolutely appreciate the concern Cjay and i dont like it anymore than you do.
However... playing devils advocate for a second, what is the alternative?
We know we need players of a higher quality to move forward but they cost serious money. Its not just us either its the rest of the league too. We are all bound by FFP.
The only teams that can afford to buy the quality are those with parachute payments but even then they are going s**t or bust as if they dont go straight back up they have a large number of players on high wages who arent good enough for the prem but too expensive for the Championship.
I think we can probably offset the loss of those players somewhat with our academy which puts us in a very privileged position.

User avatar
Irish Ian
First Team
First Team
Posts: 1602
Joined: Fri Jan 18, 2019 5:53 pm
Location: Directly above the centre of the Earth.

Re: Concerning Transfer Policy

Post by Irish Ian » Mon Jun 17, 2019 2:42 pm

We were warned about it being a tricky season transfer wise.

I see us selling two first teamers, bringing in 3 loans at a cost of £5 to £8m and buying three squad fillers for a maximum spend of £1.5m.

And that will be it.
"We can wait for the next game with serenity"

"I am quite clear in my mind that one has to feel sincere love for those he leads, and if he doesn't feel it naturally, then he must learn how to feel it"


Marcelo Bielsa.

BGwhite
Subs Bench
Subs Bench
Posts: 979
Joined: Sun Oct 21, 2018 11:02 am

Re: Concerning Transfer Policy

Post by BGwhite » Mon Jun 17, 2019 3:19 pm

Until someone buys this club who has financial clout it will be the same every season. AR must have been in dreamland with half a dozen games left and the PL within touching distance....not much player investment and "hey ho I'm gonna make an absolute mint when we go up " but we all know what happened there and there is no doubt his policy hasnt changed at least so far we've seen nothing to suggest it has. Unless MB works a bigger miracle than last season this will all go tits up and everyone will be on their merry way.

Sent from my XT1032 using Tapatalk


User avatar
mothbanquet
Subs Bench
Subs Bench
Posts: 621
Joined: Wed Jan 16, 2019 1:11 pm

Re: Concerning Transfer Policy

Post by mothbanquet » Mon Jun 17, 2019 3:52 pm

I'm not seeing enough yet to feel anything one way or another, which in its own way doesn't fill me with confidence. Bielsa wanted this business squared away by the end of June to get his pre-season prep underway ASAP, and the clock is ticking away.

User avatar
1964white
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 73085
Joined: Tue Mar 30, 2010 8:46 am
Twitter: @1964white

Re: Concerning Transfer Policy

Post by 1964white » Mon Jun 17, 2019 4:20 pm

When have we done anything swiftly during the summer or the transfer windows?

Our high-flying management & players will be on their jollies

Tell a lie football clubs are quick to take the season-ticket monies off their loyal supporters

User avatar
whiteswan
Superstar
Superstar
Posts: 6183
Joined: Tue Mar 06, 2012 1:10 am

Re: Concerning Transfer Policy

Post by whiteswan » Mon Jun 17, 2019 5:17 pm

mothbanquet wrote:
Mon Jun 17, 2019 3:52 pm
I'm not seeing enough yet to feel anything one way or another, which in its own way doesn't fill me with confidence. Bielsa wanted this business squared away by the end of June to get his pre-season prep underway ASAP, and the clock is ticking away.
Me neither....tick tock tick tock

User avatar
weasel
Superstar
Superstar
Posts: 8105
Joined: Wed May 23, 2007 10:28 pm
Location: Within a mile of Yorkshire

Re: Concerning Transfer Policy

Post by weasel » Mon Jun 17, 2019 9:00 pm

Tricky is putting it mildly in terms of how to come up with a transfer strategy in the position we are in. To improve any position in the team means either 1) buying a proven (expensive) player that is better than what we have, 2) buying a player with potential (cheap) and hoping they turn into the world beater straightaway or to 3) go for a loan player in the hope that they are as described on the tin and prove to be exceptional. All 3 have plusses and minuses.

1) Likely to cost a fair bit and no guarantee they won't jut see this as another move before retirement. They could be exactly what we need, fit in straightaway and immediately improve the side but equally if they suddenly decline in ability then we likely have a millstone round our necks on a 3 or 4 year expensive contract - and we have had several players do that over the years.

2) For all the players like Dan James who seem to click overnight there are loads who never seem to fulfill their potential. Takes more than just talent to succeed and we have seen many potentially good players shrivel up under the Leeds Utd spotlight some then going on to do really well at smaller clubs.

3) Ross Barclay is a prime example of a talented youngster who should have been an absolute star for us on loan but was a complete dud. We have had several loan signings who have been awful for us despite seemingly being superstars. Similarly some of the unknowns that we signed such as Gradel (Leicester reserves) came and gave it their all, Dougie Freedman another.

So all options have their pitfalls so I can only hope that Orta and Bielsa are looking into the character of the players we are trying to sign whether they are loans or permanent signings and are trying to eliminate as much error in selection as possible. I personally don't care whether the players who come in come from 3rd division Italy, lower leagues here loans from premiership or big money signings that we have heard of. As long as they come in and do well. The team doesn't need an overhaul it needs 2 or 3 players of the right ability and character, a Gordon Strachan type who leads by effort and skill but will also make sure everyone else gives 100%.

Would be good to have the signings in place for the start of preseason though especially given Bielsa's training regime and the new players having to get used to it and fit enough to play his way.
Senor El Weasel

Norm
Superstar
Superstar
Posts: 5445
Joined: Tue May 27, 2003 2:51 am
Location: SW Missouri USA

Re: Concerning Transfer Policy

Post by Norm » Tue Jun 18, 2019 1:16 am

I agree with your post weasel, with particular reference to paragraph 5 last sentence.
It's a difficult ask but a very worthwhile gain if achieved.

User avatar
Chilli D
First Team
First Team
Posts: 1109
Joined: Tue Apr 17, 2018 2:31 pm
Contact:

Re: Concerning Transfer Policy

Post by Chilli D » Tue Jun 18, 2019 9:02 am

It seems to me that AR is hanging his hat on a number of the U23's stepping up to the first team next season.
While we all aknowledge how good some of them are, it's a bit much to expect them to cope with the rigours of a 46 game championship season after predominantly playing U23 football.
We just need to clear out all the dead wood who are out on loan in various parts of the world and bring in 3 quality players to bolster the squad. It's not rocket science.
Hopefully the is work going on behind the scenes to do just that.

User avatar
mothbanquet
Subs Bench
Subs Bench
Posts: 621
Joined: Wed Jan 16, 2019 1:11 pm

Re: Concerning Transfer Policy

Post by mothbanquet » Tue Jun 18, 2019 10:43 am

It's the waiting that's killing me. What Weasel said is as usual absolutely true, it's a lottery at the end of the day but we came so very close to glory last season, we were missing just one or two pieces of the puzzle and I'm going a bit barmy from all the rumour but lack of facts.

User avatar
billysboots
Youth Team
Youth Team
Posts: 148
Joined: Mon May 26, 2003 7:29 am
Location: N.Ireland

Re: Concerning Transfer Policy

Post by billysboots » Tue Jun 18, 2019 12:59 pm

It does seem slow, getting the players in. Having said that, fans of other teams are probably saying the same.
There Is Only One United.

User avatar
Irish Ian
First Team
First Team
Posts: 1602
Joined: Fri Jan 18, 2019 5:53 pm
Location: Directly above the centre of the Earth.

Re: Concerning Transfer Policy

Post by Irish Ian » Tue Jun 18, 2019 1:44 pm

I wonder if Leeds like to leave it late to save on wages paid.
"We can wait for the next game with serenity"

"I am quite clear in my mind that one has to feel sincere love for those he leads, and if he doesn't feel it naturally, then he must learn how to feel it"


Marcelo Bielsa.

Cjay
Superstar
Superstar
Posts: 8378
Joined: Tue Aug 01, 2017 3:01 pm

Re: Concerning Transfer Policy

Post by Cjay » Tue Jun 18, 2019 1:57 pm

Aside from the fact we are extremely tight and mess about for ages and end up missing out, pre season training starts on Monday.

Last season various people said that they saw MB, Orta and Radz having quite an animated discussion after a friendly and within a few days a player or two arrived.

MB likes his players in early, if we mess about again he has shown before he has no problem walking away, we arent special, if he feels we have messed him about he will walk.

Summer 2nd season is when MB tends to get more forceful and fall out with owners, Bilbao and Marseille show that.


I hope we arent stupid enough to push pur luck again with MB.

Also according to PH we havent offered any new deals to players.

What are we doing.

Genghers
Superstar
Superstar
Posts: 5838
Joined: Thu Jan 07, 2010 8:24 pm
Location: Newcastle

Re: Concerning Transfer Policy

Post by Genghers » Tue Jun 18, 2019 2:09 pm

Bielsa will have had assurances before signing the extension and I have no doubt that Radz will want to fulfill promises made to avoid losing MB.

We don't need an overhaul though - we were (imo) 2 or 3 injuries away from promotion, rather than 2 or 3 signings. If we keep this squad together and maybe add a quality signing to replace Saiz and take pressure off Hernandez then we should be okay.

User avatar
Irish Ian
First Team
First Team
Posts: 1602
Joined: Fri Jan 18, 2019 5:53 pm
Location: Directly above the centre of the Earth.

Re: Concerning Transfer Policy

Post by Irish Ian » Tue Jun 18, 2019 2:13 pm

Only four weeks ago we had one eye on the Premiership and no doubt transfer wise MB Et all we’re thinking of building a squad to withstand the rigours of that league.

Now we are where we are, set for another season with a squad with enough in it to push for top two spot again. All we need is a few tweaks to the squad, no need getting in a rush to sign the wrong players.

We are already clearing out some surplus staff to save a few bob.

We have been warned not to expect too much this summer.

I know it is hard but lets be patient.
"We can wait for the next game with serenity"

"I am quite clear in my mind that one has to feel sincere love for those he leads, and if he doesn't feel it naturally, then he must learn how to feel it"


Marcelo Bielsa.

User avatar
hector
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 5918
Joined: Mon Jul 30, 2012 5:57 am
Location: Salisbury

Re: Concerning Transfer Policy

Post by hector » Tue Jun 18, 2019 2:29 pm

Irish Ian wrote:
Tue Jun 18, 2019 2:13 pm

I know it is hard but lets be patient.
patience.jpg
patience.jpg (73.79 KiB) Viewed 991 times
I have discovered the secret to a long life!!

Keep Breathing!!

:) :)

SG90
First Team
First Team
Posts: 2070
Joined: Sat Dec 29, 2012 11:29 pm

Re: Concerning Transfer Policy

Post by SG90 » Tue Jun 18, 2019 3:33 pm

Completely agree CJay. Relying on loans would mean we have to go up and we all know how much our players crack when the pressure is on. If we don't go up then Pontus, Roofe, Pablo, KP and Bielsa will be gone too.

I'd rather we use the u23s than loans. If we sell Clarke, give Stevens a chance instead. I don't mind loans if they're established players like Helder Costa, as expensive as they will be. Absolutely pointless developing players for other clubs and paying to do so.
Radz out now

Cjay
Superstar
Superstar
Posts: 8378
Joined: Tue Aug 01, 2017 3:01 pm

Re: Concerning Transfer Policy

Post by Cjay » Tue Jun 25, 2019 1:52 pm

Have to say imo if that is all the club want and that is the limit of the ambition then i dont think thats enough :(

Hate the straight loan policy and aside from Costa are they really the best loan players that are out their?

Selling our own young prospect to borrow (and pay to borrow) another teams young player is madness imo, ridiculous short term strategy.

spike24
Ballboy
Ballboy
Posts: 2
Joined: Thu May 23, 2019 8:22 am

Re: Concerning Transfer Policy

Post by spike24 » Tue Jun 25, 2019 3:34 pm

Cjay wrote: Have to say imo if that is all the club want and that is the limit of the ambition then i dont think thats enough :(

Hate the straight loan policy and aside from Costa are they really the best loan players that are out their?

Selling our own young prospect to borrow (and pay to borrow) another teams young player is madness imo, ridiculous short term strategy.
Fkkn town gazumped us for a midfielder from forest green ffs.
All this talk of totti etc and buffon, is the impoverished i-tie merely blowing smoke up our arses.

Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk



Post Reply

Advertisment