Could I have done more?

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ash
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Re: Could I have done more?

Post by ash » Thu Jun 13, 2019 2:39 pm

No
The original TWAT. The one and only real TWAT.

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Re: Could I have done more?

Post by rab_rant » Fri Jun 14, 2019 5:20 am

SaraM wrote:Peterson hasn't 'destroyed' any argument or viewpoint whatsoever. His pretenses to philosophy are laughable; he has no training in this area, and hasn't even read the source material of those he claims to critique. Pure snake oil, I'm afraid.
Snake oil??? Surely you mean Pepe the frog oil that the SJW find themselves
slathered in to their utter confusion and consternation.


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Re: Could I have done more?

Post by SaraM » Fri Jun 14, 2019 1:29 pm

Middle aged, middle class, white American males talking about racism; always a good look.

My beef with Peterson is that there are deep philosophical flaws in the positions he takes, particularly, as mentioned, with regard to his misunderstanding of post-modernism, which is at the root of his views on what he calls collectivism and cultural marxism. He's a psychologist and a populist, not a philosopher.

All of which is kind of off topic for this thread, except that Peterson's version of individualism actually feeds the kind of concerns raised by the OP; if we haven't achieved enough of our life goals, it is a matter of personal failing, regardless of the extremely warped social structures which we inhabit.
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Re: Could I have done more?

Post by rab_rant » Fri Jun 14, 2019 2:28 pm

People never listen to philosophers because they are to difficult to understand. Marxism in 1918 expected the workers to rise and overthrow the ruling class throughout Europe. It never happened. So cultural Marxism rears it's ugly head and the revolution now involves the destruction of the institutions that have underpinned society for centuries. (Hands up all of you who know the difference between Marxism and Cultural Marxism?)

The revolution can only begin when order is destroyed and chaos let loose. You build your new utopia from the ruins. Gender politics, non dualism are all part and parcel of the same political agenda and the philosophical idea of thesis/antithesis/synthesis is considered ancient and outdated.

You need a populist to explain these concepts in simple terms that are understandable.

The alt right embraces Peterson because he exposes the arguments of the radical left... and Peterson just wants to be a thinking individual somewhere in the middle.

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Re: Could I have done more?

Post by SaraM » Sat Jun 15, 2019 1:13 am

Total, utter nonsense. If philosophy is too difficult to understand, then don't spout gibberish which purports to be based on it.

I know full well the difference between Marxism and cultural marxism; the former is a critique of an economic system, the latter doesn't exist, except as a hypothetical antithesis to white supremacism.

The notion that ending discrimination against marginalised people is a 'threat to the social order' is fascism, pure and simple. That is what you are advocating, whether you understand it or not.
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Re: Could I have done more?

Post by rab_rant » Sat Jun 15, 2019 4:13 am

Feminists hate Peterson because with facts and statistics he proves there is no glass ceiling... and refutes the idea that patriarchy is responsible for all the ills in the world,and that matriarchy would be better.

The gender fluid community hate Peterson because he refuses to use their 24 invented pronouns.

Atheists hate Peterson because he uses biblical symbolism in his lectures.

The radical left hate Peterson because he lectures about Pinnochio in an attempt to teach the dumded down generation about the principles of speaking the truth and the consequences of lying.

Vegans hate Peterson cos he is on a carnivore diet and he says it cured his depression

Lazy people hate Peterson because he tells them to make their bed.

Peterson puts on his Pepe the frog hat and the image mystifies everyone. The frog hat was made by a man from a marginalised minority Indian tribe. The frog in their culture is a harbinger of doom... and in Peterson case, if the cap fits then he will wear it.

Symbols and fairytales and parables are often more potent than any philosophy... at least common folk can understand them.



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Re: Could I have done more?

Post by rab_rant » Sat Jun 15, 2019 5:02 am

The metaphysics of Pepe the frog
A fairytale for the Frankfurt school of Cultural Marxism :whistle: :rol:

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Re: Could I have done more?

Post by SaraM » Sat Jun 15, 2019 10:06 am

I've already told you I have no time for him because his 'thought' has no academic rigour, and he stirs up prejudice for popular acclaim.

I come on here to talk about Leeds United, not to argue with someone who thinks parroting Peterson videos equates to free thinking. I find it pathetic tbh.
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Re: Could I have done more?

Post by rab_rant » Sat Jun 15, 2019 10:29 am

SaraM wrote:
Sat Jun 15, 2019 10:06 am
I've already told you I have no time for him because his 'thought' has no academic rigour, and he stirs up prejudice for popular acclaim.

I come on here to talk about Leeds United, not to argue with someone who thinks parroting Peterson videos equates to free thinking. I find it pathetic tbh.


I will conclude by saying that I have not attacked you in any way and I have merely pointed
out Peterson's position and ideas which you have taken exception to. The rancour that you have
towards him begs the question... are you a radical leftist feminist gender fluid vegan, who objects
to Peterson continually giving you a wedgie?

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Re: Could I have done more?

Post by Irish Ian » Sat Jun 15, 2019 10:32 am

Matthew 11 vs 25.
'We can wait for the next game with serenity'

'I am quite clear in my mind that one has to feel sincere love for those he leads, and if he doesn't feel it naturally, then he must learn how to feel it' Marcelo Bielsa


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Re: Could I have done more?

Post by paddy parrott » Sat Jun 15, 2019 11:05 am

Yes Irish Ian..Alleluia, Halleluia .
No scoffing needed .
Well said mate.

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Re: Could I have done more?

Post by faaip » Sat Jun 15, 2019 11:16 am

Irish Ian wrote:
Sat Jun 15, 2019 10:32 am
Matthew 11 vs 25.
Seems a little one sided ..what sport is this?
I don't mean to sound cold, cruel or vicious...

....but I am...

....so that's how it comes out

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Re: Could I have done more?

Post by Irish Ian » Sat Jun 15, 2019 11:27 am

faaip wrote:
Sat Jun 15, 2019 11:16 am
Seems a little one sided ..what sport is this?
:lol:
'We can wait for the next game with serenity'

'I am quite clear in my mind that one has to feel sincere love for those he leads, and if he doesn't feel it naturally, then he must learn how to feel it' Marcelo Bielsa


'Would he kill his granny to win a match?' Bobby Collins

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Re: Could I have done more?

Post by SaraM » Sat Jun 15, 2019 4:12 pm

rab_rant wrote:
Sat Jun 15, 2019 10:29 am
are you a radical leftist feminist gender fluid vegan
Are you saying that people who have different views, a different gender, or a different lifestyle from you, should be ridiculed? A different culture, maybe, or a different skin colour?

Do you think that your right to free speech includes the right to spread hate against such people?

Are you saying this because you believe that tackling discrimination against such people poses a threat to the 'natural order', which inevitably places straight, white men at the top?

Do you think that any move towards equality represents a conspiracy against Western society?

Can you give a reasoned argument to back up any of these views, without hanging on Peterson's coattails?
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Re: Could I have done more?

Post by rab_rant » Mon Jun 17, 2019 4:20 am

If I have seen further than most it is because I have stood on the shoulders of giants - Isaac Newton.

We are the straw men we are the hollow men this is the way the world ends not with a bang but with a whimper. T. S. Elliot.

“The burger joint around the bend where the meals thank Christ are skimpy. For you that’s how the world could end not with a bang but a Wimpy - John Cooper Clarke

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Re: Could I have done more?

Post by SaraM » Mon Jun 17, 2019 1:04 pm

I'll take that as a no, then.
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Re: Could I have done more?

Post by rab_rant » Mon Jun 17, 2019 3:25 pm

Ideas evolve Cooper Clarke takes a line from an Elliot poem and transforms it into something else... something more contemporary. Something witty ... something that resonates with modern culture and times. It is not better it is just different.

Your world view is influenced by your education the books you read and your own social and economic situation. Since we are all different we all have different philosophies to live by.

It is very dogmatic to say everyone should believe the same way that you do or that you are right and Peterson or Kant or Keynes are wrong because your personal philosophy does not allow you to agree with them.

I expect that some of Peterson ideas are liberating for certain people and they find that personal responsibility and speaking the truth are quite revolutionary principles, yet you must also condemned them because they do not fit into your mould.

So for all the talk about equality and standing up for minorities you would dismiss and degrade anyone who does not fall into your camp.

I would call that prejudice... and being blinkered by your own ideas.

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Re: Could I have done more?

Post by rab_rant » Tue Jun 18, 2019 10:07 am

A listened to a recent debate and a black man Michael Dyson called Peterson a "mean white man" now the radical left would classify that as "hate speach"

Now if Peterson had called Dyson "a mean black man" all hell would have broken loose.

Just as a point of interest Peterson does not monetise his youtube videos so he gets no revenue from them even though he has over 2M SUBSCRIBERS and some of his videos have over 1M views. So let's say he is hitting a nerve somewhere.

In addition when the C16 debacle was taking place he opened up a Patreon account and he got support to the tune of 33,000 dollars a month. A tidy little sum, yet when Patreon began to show bias and terminate certain accounts because of the political views that were being expressed, Jordan viewed this as censorship and as an act of solidarity terminated his own Patreon account.

Not many people would have the ovaries to be so principled and give up on 33,000 a month.

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Re: Could I have done more?

Post by SaraM » Tue Jun 18, 2019 3:45 pm

I don't actually disagree with your last two comments. As I said originally, my criticism of Peterson is that he bases his whole concept of cultural marxism on a misunderstanding of postmodernism, which isn't surprising as, by his own admission, he hasn't studied, or even read, the key writers.

The 'nerve' that I think Peterson hits is a widespread sense of insecurity at the loss of traditional 'meta-narratives'. He is not wrong in his observations there; the danger is when anxiety at the loss of familiar certainty, generated as society evolves, becomes attached to an atavistic nationalism, and demonising of the 'other'.

Crimes against marginalised people have increased exponentially over recent years, and Peterson's comments feed the fear behind that destructive behaviour. It isn't difficult to see that 'freedom of speech' for straight white men isn't really what is being threatened here. He is coy about his popularity with the 'alt-right', but far rght populism is a much greater threat to a free and tolerant society than gender pronouns.

You presume way too much about my own beliefs and supposed dogmatism. Your knee jerk reaction to me being a woman who dislikes Peterson is that I must therefore be a feminist, gender fluid vegan, and no doubt a cultural marxist as well. I am none of those things.

Yes, we are all products of our various frames of reference, but that doesn't mean that we all accept those to the same degree, or are equally unwilling to question them. I studied philosophy precisely because I like questions, and the one thing you learn from philosophy is that no one has a monopoly on the answers.
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