D Day

[Mick Jones shoulder]

Never forget those buggers who did us all a favour. Two uncles served that particular day, my old boy served aboard hms Victorious throughout the war.

[1964white]

Just watched the moving D-Day 75th anniversary service

Bravery & courageousness of the highest order MJ, 1000's of those soldiers who gave their lives for freedom were only 15/16yo kids

[Ratscoot]

Just can’t imagine the horror of it all the ones that managed to survive by what ever means consider themselves very lucky but having seen what modern wars do to people and most of them get some form of support I think the WW1 and WW2 vets had it extremely hard when they returned and that’s nearly as sad as the war itself

[mothbanquet]

Today's the day to remember just how good we really have things, and how lucky we are that we don't have to see the things they have seen.

[Sara]

Today's the day to remember just how good we really have things, and how lucky we are that we don't have to see the things they have seen.

If only that were true; the world is still ravaged by perpetual war. Our own country inflicts untold suffering on countless innocents, in the name of what? Freedom? I don't think so.

Full respect to those who served and gave their lives, but let us not use their memory to whitewash imperialism. Their sacrifice will not be fulfilled until we no longer profit from the horrors of war.

[mothbanquet]

If only that were true; the world is still ravaged by perpetual war. Our own country inflicts untold suffering on countless innocents, in the name of what? Freedom? I don't think so.

Full respect to those who served and gave their lives, but let us not use their memory to whitewash imperialism. Their sacrifice will not be fulfilled until we no longer profit from the horrors of war.

If you'd seen real war, you'd know the difference Sara. Some vague notion of 'imperialism' (which was nothing but dying embers after the Great War anyway) doesn't erase the fact that no war since WW2 has levelled the same toll of destruction on nations nor cost in human lives. No soldier today would trade a tour of Afghanistan for one of North Africa or Normandy, it's a question that's been asked and answered.

Their sacrifice and that of our allies liberated Europe and prevented the boots of Nazis marching on our soil. The only comparison that needs to be made to the modern day is the consequences of what would have happened if they'd failed. Yes, we are lucky that strong men and women were there to fight true evil and that we don't have to suffer like they did for it.

[Mick Jones shoulder]

If you'd seen real war, you'd know the difference Sara. Some vague notion of 'imperialism' (which was nothing but dying embers after the Great War anyway) doesn't erase the fact that no war since WW2 has levelled the same toll of destruction on nations nor cost in human lives. No soldier today would trade a tour of Afghanistan for one of North Africa or Normandy, it's a question that's been asked and answered.

Their sacrifice and that of our allies liberated Europe and prevented the boots of Nazis marching on our soil. The only comparison that needs to be made to the modern day is the consequences of what would have happened if they'd failed. Yes, we are lucky that strong men and women were there to fight true evil and that we don't have to suffer like they did for it.

Very true my man.!!!

[Sara]

My Grandfather was in the trenches, my Uncle was a Japanese prisoner of war, I grew up on their stories, and they instilled me with the horror of war. I am not comparing the experience of the modern soldier with theirs, that is not the point I am making. For the innocents, on whom the bombs rain down, the experience is the same; there are only so many ways to see your loved ones blown apart.

Western economies like ours depend on armaments, we profit from the state of perpetual war, and we are instrumental in creating it. Simplistic narratives of good and evil are meaningless in this complex world.

Hitler was stopped because he was an imperialist, not because he was a white supremacist. In that regard, his views weren't so different from Churchill's, and they are still very much alive today.

I find it incredibly sad when the sacrifices of the common soldier are used to glorify nationalistic pride, and to perpetuate the narratives of division. We are not the 'good guys' on the world stage, and we never have been; there is no such thing.

If we genuinely wish to oppose war and suffering, then we need to understand its causes, and be truthful about our own motives and actions.

[Mick Jones shoulder]

You would have to ask the liberated countries if we were the good guys on that occasion? Quite agree on your points to some degree but I'd be interested to know how many would give up the lifestyles they have that are in all honesty the result of imperialism.

[mothbanquet]

I find it incredibly sad when the sacrifices of the common soldier are used to glorify nationalistic pride, and to perpetuate the narratives of division. We are not the 'good guys' on the world stage, and we never have been; there is no such thing.

We can certainly agree on that, but I believe the reason these celebrations are so special are because everyone who opposed the Nazis, from US and British Commonwealth troops to French resistance and German dissidents, were most certainly the good guys. It's very, very rare that war truly has what Sun Tzu described as the Moral Law - a clear sense of right over wrong - but WW2 was one of them.

Nationalistic pride is neither good nor evil, it can be turned to either purpose. It is just as likely to uplift a nation in its darkest days, such as Churchill's speech post-Dunkirk or rouse listeners into an angry mob. What really matters is that we do not lose sight of history, we don't taint it with contemporary views or insights (that change year by year according to cultural trends), that we keep the lessons we've learned simple and clear. Otherwise, we may well just end up repeating history.

[Sara]

I don't take issue with most of what you say, except to point out that the conditions for Hitler's rise were essentially sown in the Treaty of Versailles. Fascists don't come to power in a vacuum, and history very likely will repeat itself if we don't understand that.

[Sara]

The military, like the police, ultimately serve to protect the ruling class, not the general population.

https://www.arrse.co.uk/community/threa ... uk.140532/

[hector]

The military, like the police, ultimately serve to protect the ruling class, not the general population.

https://www.arrse.co.uk/community/threa ... uk.140532/

ARSE is just a piss take site Sara, you can't take anything on there seriously, even the serious threads.

Most of them would start a fight in a room with only themselves in it

[Denman]

If only there was less hate, and more love, kindness and understanding in this world, we might avoid such horrors in the future.

[TwatsBack]

Very true my man.!!!

No it's not. Not really. Overall the two biggies caused more death and destruction on the planet. However, there's no difference between combatants. Soldier against soldier is as bad as it's ever been. each and every soldier going into a combat zone firmly believes he has the best training in the world at that point. Yet the absolute fear experienced is the same, no matter if a major battle , patrol through enemy territory or a shootout at the OK coral. Death is ever present and by the grace of whatever deity you believe in do you get through it.