Radz on Derby/Radz on Talksport Jim White's show imminently

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SG90
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Re: Radz on Derby/Radz on Talksport's Jim White show imminently

Post by SG90 » Wed May 22, 2019 10:56 pm

I've said it before and I'll say it again, we don't need to spend fortunes. Just replace the key player we sold with the money and get 3/4 good loans, not shite, and the odd free, while promoting a few more u23s. :tup: We're not that far away.
Radz out now

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Re: Radz on Derby

Post by Cjay » Wed May 22, 2019 11:06 pm

SG90 wrote:
Wed May 22, 2019 10:56 pm
I've said it before and I'll say it again, we don't need to spend fortunes. Just replace the key player we sold with the money and get 3/4 good loans, not shite, and the odd free, while promoting a few more u23s. :tup: We're not that far away.
True but my real issue is last January was the best chance we have had, we failed (for whatever reason).

Ok maybe we will get a reprieve with Bielsa staying, why make the same mistakes, why not grab the bull by the horns and give it 1 proper go?

No sales aside from dead wood, dont spend fortunes but 1 or 2 top quality additions and some decent loans to add to what we have.

The definition of madness is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result.

If lessons have truly been learned then do something bloody different :(

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Re: Radz on Derby

Post by SG90 » Wed May 22, 2019 11:17 pm

Cjay wrote:
Wed May 22, 2019 11:06 pm
True but my real issue is last January was the best chance we have had, we failed (for whatever reason).

Ok maybe we will get a reprieve with Bielsa staying, why make the same mistakes, why not grab the bull by the horns and give it 1 proper go?

No sales aside from dead wood, dont spend fortunes but 1 or 2 top quality additions and some decent loans to add to what we have.

The definition of madness is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result.

If lessons have truly been learned then do something bloody different :(
I agree. I'm still pissed off we never brought in the two players we needed to get us up, a Saiz replacement and a LW. Especially when you consider who the blunts are looking to sign, McBurnie and Assombalonga ffs, they'll be straight back down. Such a waste of a PL spot.

However, I think we're in the strongest position this summer of all clubs and we can now push forward to push for automatic promotion and the title (not the playoffs lol).
Radz out now

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Re: Radz on Derby

Post by Cjay » Wed May 22, 2019 11:54 pm

SG90 wrote:
Wed May 22, 2019 11:17 pm
I agree. I'm still pissed off we never brought in the two players we needed to get us up, a Saiz replacement and a LW. Especially when you consider who the blunts are looking to sign, McBurnie and Assombalonga ffs, they'll be straight back down. Such a waste of a PL spot.

However, I think we're in the strongest position this summer of all clubs and we can now push forward to push for automatic promotion and the title (not the playoffs lol).
January was incompetence of the highest order from the club, Bielsa did call for "players better then we lost", he absolutely did so it wasnt a case of him not wanting any replacements, i suspect Dan James was the only player they could find within budget (cheap) and that didnt work out as we know and thus we ended up being weaker then we were at the start of the season (as Bielsa admitted).

I agree partially, potentially we are but not if we allow key players to leave, counter productive and risky and just a repeat of the last 15 years.

Just have to hope i suppose, hope Radz and co dont waste Bielsa again.

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Re: Radz on Derby

Post by BGwhite » Thu May 23, 2019 7:17 am

One thing is for sure, the next 12 months is 'do or die' for this club. Get it wrong and i feel it will all self destruct. MB will go and AR will probably sell up and the whole circus will begin again.
As previously mentioned, all that is required atm is 2-3 additional players who are an improvement on what we have right now. During the summer a couple of the 23's will step up into the first team squad and with a couple of good loans we have the squad to take this bloody league. If we just replace players that are sold then we are making the same previous mistakes. The squad needs more quality and numbers. MB should know now that he cut the squad down far too much and injuries made it threadbare. Basically it needs slight improvement and we go up otherwise we'll be here in 12 months time in a worse position.

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Re: Radz on Derby

Post by weasel » Thu May 23, 2019 8:49 am

Because an owner should invest in his own business to make it successful should they not?

You invest in the bits that will provide guaranteed returns. Example buying back the stadium as it then saves the club £ms a year on rent and if everything went tits up you could sell the stadium and get back the money paid for it. Straightforward good business deal. Investing in the youth set-up - a little more risky but a fairly low cost risk as the cost of buying players for the youth side and the wages are miniscule in comparison to buying first teamers. As such low risk because all it needs is 1 or 2 to be decent and it has paid for itself. Buying players for the first team - that is a huge risk. Players value can go down dramatically - how much would we get for Forshaw, Bamford, Douglas etc. So you could spend £15m on those three, pay decent wages and have little return. So you decide to buy better players and so that costs another £20m+, don't get promoted and suddenly you have wasted even more money and you still need to buy better players - it can very quickly become a money pit. So AR sensibly runs the transfer side of things by only spending the money he recoups from selling players - not great as a fan but sensible as a businessman.

Or get outside investment which Radz did tbf but it didnt really make much difference. From what our accounts say and from what people far cleverer then I have said Radz has invested in the club itself but not much, not as much as he is allowed (again only repeating what others have said).

Well that's fine but to get outside investment he had to give up I think it was 10% of the club. Why should he continue to give away %s of his clubs making what he actually owns considerably less. In effect he is gambling here, giving up 10% of the club in the hope that the investment would make the club worth more (i.e. by being promoted). But the money has come and gone and the club is not worth more. So he has lost whatever % he gave up and got nothing in return effectively. Is he going to sell off another chunk? Would you?

There is a pattern here, he was criticised for similar when he had those business troubles earlier in the year. Media rights experts said basically Radz was unwilling to cover the expected costs and losses a newish business venture may experience in its early times, many other companies would and do perservere out of their own pocket but Radz wouldn't or couldn't (he had vastly underestimated the funding needed was what the gist was).

I wonder if that is happening here to us?


Sometimes you have to cut your losses. Maybe AR realised that people in England just aren't interested enough in foreign football so not matter how much money he threw at it that wouldn't change. Cut your losses and move on.

Radz is no fool clearly, but maybe he vastly underestimated the cost of owning a 2nd tier club? Clearly he was struggling or he wouldn't have got the 49ers in.

I think a lot of owners come in and think it will be easy but it isn't. The 49ers deal was probably not just about the money but being able to also learn things from the 49ers in relation to merchandising, it gives us a foothold in America without us actually risking any money as a club. The Liverpool owners brought their expertise in from Baseball (having transformed the Boston Red Sox fortunes on the field) and have used some of the same processes successfully and perhaps we are using some of the way the 49ers did things to improve the club.

One things for sure imo, Radz cant afford us much longer, he has his own issues to like being sued by Everbright as well.

If he runs us as a business properly then he can afford us for as long as he wants unless his other businesses fail and he needs to sell us because he needs the money. If the club doesn't make a loss he isn't making a loss and the value of the club will remain fairly steady and of course there is always the possibility that 1 year the club gets promoted and the club is suddenly worth a lot more.

Unless we get promoted Radz will make a loss on us, over a year ago he said he had invested £100mil in us, so if he sells at a loss thats not a successful business is it?

If that's true that figure must be £10, 20, 30mil more by now surely at least.

He will be lucky to get £60-80mil top whack for a loss making 2nd division club.


If he runs the club as a business there is no reason to make a loss regardless of not getting promoted. Okay lets say he has invested £100m, that is however much to buy the club, however much to buy the stadium and whatever else he has spent on stuff like getting us rid of GFH etc. So that money is spent but after that the club runs itself, it makes money and then spends money so there is no reason to suggest he has needed to invest any more personally. Now we aren't really privvy to the accounts but he may well have loaned the club some of the money to pay off debts etc so part of the club's income may now be going to paying that loan off as such bringing his actual investment costs down over time. If that was the case then running the club sensibly over time would pay of any loans.

Radz is cautious, its his money and he wont risk it, i understand that from a business point of view but its damn frustrating as a fan.

Speculate to accumulate and that does seem to be something Radz doesnt do in general.


Extremely cautious, probably why he has made a lot of money. Speculate to accumulate is fine if you can guarantee success. Speculate and fail doesn't sound as good. A lot of owners have come in thought if they spent say £50m on players it would guarantee promotion but it didn't and the clubs have suffered.

What i dont get though is ok Radz doesnt want to invest much of his own cash, annoying but ok.

Why not sell another 20,30%?

He would still be majority shareholder, he would have access to more funds which he could use to improve the squad and if that investment brought in 2 or 3 top quality players at this level then all the better.


The thing is that if lets say the club is worth £100m - and AR now owns 90% of it so he has an asset that is worth £90m to him personally. So he sells 30% and instead of pocketing that £30m he spends it on players. We fail to get promoted. He now owns only 60% of the club so he has personally lost £30m and got nothing.

Radz has an asset improved where it counts, Bielsa has a better squad and Radz didnt have to risk his own cash.

His asset though hadn't improved as we wasted that £30m and that was AR's cash. His 60% of the club is worth £60m he has lost £30m.

If it works Radz is majority owner of an asset probably worth £200mil+, if it doesnt he hasnt lost anything financially and actually has someone to share the responsibility with.

If it works he has 60% of an asset that you say is worth £200m so he has £120m. So it works and he has turned his 90% share of £100m (worth £90m) into a 60% share of £200m (worth £120m). So he has risked his £30m and gained £30m. But if it didn't work he has a 60% share of a £100m asset (£60m). So effectively you are asking him to risk £30m on a chance of winning £30m or losing his £30m. He may as well just go to a roulette wheel and bet on red or black.

I appreciate the academy although we have no idea how good that actually is and probably wont till after Radz goes.Bielsa is the best thing to happen to this club since i was a kid and am very grateful to Radz for him. Regarding Bielsa he has basically asked a Michelin star chef to make a gourmet meal using ingredients from the sale in Aldi, not impossible but incredibly difficult.

As I said earlier the academy is a very low risk investment. Let's say the work done at Thorp Arch, the cost of getting the players, coaches and wages etc costs £5m per year. Think that is a reasonable estimate. 1 player breaks into the Leeds team (or is sold) per year and it pays for itself. With the proper coaching etc we could have several of these players breakthrough to the first team. Like you say it could be years before we can really judge how successful it is but the early sings are good. Transfer wise unless we pick up really good signings on the cheap Bielsa will have to work with what he has, yes it doesn't make things easier for him but equally the job of the manager is to get the best out of the players he has. How many managers are given the time these days to have a few transfer windows to get in the players they want? Even at Real Madrid, Barcelona etc the manager is expected to get the most out of the players he is given and the manager either does it or he is fired within a year. Yes the Barca/RM manager has better players at his disposal but they are going up against better teams too. The youngsters we have could be the key ingredients to Chef Bielsa as they have been playing his way all season but also in the season before they would have been playing a similar way under Corboran. These youngsters may tick a lot more boxes in terms of what Bielsa needs than potential signings.

Football clubs dont tend to make money in this league hence why clubs take risks, if he expects to ever make a profit then we need to be in the prem. Just feels like he is hoping to get lucky rather then making a concentrated effort and when you make the very inspired choice of appointing Bielsa that seems like a very risky and potentially daft risk.

A lot of clubs lose money chasing the big dream of making it to the promised land of riches or the hope that one of their players suddenly becomes worth a fortune. That should not be the norm though, clubs should be self sustaining and if a player is sold for a fortune then spend the money - don't spend, spend, spend and then hope you can sell a player to recover the losses. Spend within your budget and if you get promoted then adjust the budget.
Senor El Weasel

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Re: Radz on Derby

Post by SG90 » Thu May 23, 2019 8:52 am

Most clubs in this league are in financial trouble or close to breaking ffp rules, there won't be massive amounts of money spent this summer. Apart from maybe Town, but that's about it.
Radz out now

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Re: Radz on Derby

Post by SG90 » Thu May 23, 2019 9:11 am

weasel wrote:
Thu May 23, 2019 8:49 am
Radz is no fool clearly, but maybe he vastly underestimated the cost of owning a 2nd tier club? Clearly he was struggling or he wouldn't have got the 49ers in.

I think a lot of owners come in and think it will be easy but it isn't. The 49ers deal was probably not just about the money but being able to also learn things from the 49ers in relation to merchandising, it gives us a foothold in America without us actually risking any money as a club. The Liverpool owners brought their expertise in from Baseball (having transformed the Boston Red Sox fortunes on the field) and have used some of the same processes successfully and perhaps we are using some of the way the 49ers did things to improve the club.
This 100%. Fans needs to remember we only made £3m from gate receipts last year, despite averaging over 31k. Crowd revenue is very small fry. All the money comes from tv and sky pay fook all for EFL tv rights, hence why the parachute payments clubs are so far ahead of those without.

The reason scum do so well is because they built their brand globally and have a strong commercial arm, not because they get 75k at OT. They're one of 4 PL clubs who wouldn't budge if Sky went bust overnight, as they are self sustainable.

It's important we build our non football and commercial income to build revenue and comply with ffp. Bringing in the expertise of a billion dollar making sports team is genius and will help us massively.
Radz out now

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Re: Radz on Derby

Post by 1964white » Thu May 23, 2019 10:08 am

Radz on Talksport's Jim White show imminently

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Re: Radz on Derby/Radz on Talksport Jim White's show imminently

Post by faaip » Thu May 23, 2019 10:11 am

will stick that on now
GET IN THE BOAT AND ROW

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Re: Radz on Derby/Radz on Talksport Jim White's show imminently

Post by 1964white » Thu May 23, 2019 10:13 am

This should be mind-blowing

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Re: Radz on Derby/Radz on Talksport Jim White's show imminently

Post by 1964white » Thu May 23, 2019 10:24 am

He we go

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Re: Radz on Derby/Radz on Talksport Jim White's show imminently

Post by SG90 » Thu May 23, 2019 10:34 am

That knob should be banned from ER for the amount of sh-t he stirred over spygate.
Radz out now

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Re: Radz on Derby/Radz on Talksport Jim White's show imminently

Post by 1964white » Thu May 23, 2019 10:36 am

I’m here till we are promoted

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Re: Radz on Derby/Radz on Talksport Jim White's show imminently

Post by 1964white » Thu May 23, 2019 10:36 am

We 'have a chance to keep' Bielsa

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Re: Radz on Derby/Radz on Talksport Jim White's show imminently

Post by 1964white » Thu May 23, 2019 10:37 am

White: "Are you optimistic?"

Radz: "We'll see... we'll announce in a few days"

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Re: Radz on Derby/Radz on Talksport Jim White's show imminently

Post by SG90 » Thu May 23, 2019 10:38 am

So no new news then!
Radz out now

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Re: Radz on Derby/Radz on Talksport Jim White's show imminently

Post by faaip » Thu May 23, 2019 10:51 am

Sounds like he got cornered and didn't want to say much, recorded last night at an event so not like he came in to talk Leeds.
GET IN THE BOAT AND ROW

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Re: Radz on Derby/Radz on Talksport Jim White's show imminently

Post by Cjay » Thu May 23, 2019 10:57 am

Weasel.

For me Radz is to cautious (its his money i get that) but my main frustration aside from him not knowing when to shut up is he wont take risks.

As you say he invests in things that give guaranteed returns, stadiums, training grounds or he takes very small risks, academy players etc.

A risk is risky (hehe) but yes he is a very wealthy young man, but how many far richer people have admitted taking risks to get to where they are? Many many i would imagine, all business is a risk and those that have the most money tend to be the braver ones.

Radz for me has gotten a very easy ride from the fans lets be honest, would MC or Bates have got away so lightly with the Myanmar thing or the Wolves rant that he didnt deliver on or being at least partially responsible for us blowing the best chance we have ever had to get back to the Prem?

Is it risky for him to sell more of the club? Yes, but its equally as risky for him to continue selling to buy, we could go backwards next season, then what?

For me you balance up risk vs reward.

Radz plainly isnt the sort of owner to take risks and that in itself is very risky especially in football where things change very quickly.

He had a golden opportunity in January which he allowed to pass by.

He has another one now, the chance to build on last season not take away from it and start again.

Wolves built on what they had, Sheffield United did, Brighton did, Bournemouth did etc.

They all went into a season saying "right we have a chance here, we will build on our first 18 and then see where we are".

It worked for them and now look at them.

It was a risk but they built something and it showed guts and i admire them for it.

Just very frustrating that every season we do the same thing and just tread water.

We are no closer to the Prem now then we were when Radz arrived.

And this summer we sell Phillips, Roofe Clarke or whoever and the cycle starts again.

Radz had the chance in January to take a risk, he failed, that really pissed me off tbh.

If he is just going to rinse and repeat this season that will show me we have learned nothing and to waste Bielsa again (if he stays) is incompetent.

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Re: Radz on Derby/Radz on Talksport Jim White's show imminently

Post by SG90 » Thu May 23, 2019 11:11 am

Phil Hay
@PhilHayYEP
Radrizzani on TalkSport - said the next few days will be decisive with regards to Bielsa's future, and the option to keep him runs to the end of the month. #lufc

:roll: Sounds like Monk all over again. If he allows Bielsa to leave, he needs to be hounded out of our club immediately. No excuses!
Radz out now

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