Why we failed................

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1964white
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Why we failed................

Post by 1964white » Sun May 19, 2019 9:07 pm

Norwich

525 chances created
93 goals
17.7% chance conversion

Sheff Utd

450 chances created
78 goals
17.3% chance conversion

Leeds

638 chances created
73 goals
11.4% chance conversion

If Leeds had averaged a 17.5% chance conversion rate we would have scored approximately 112 goals 

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1964white
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Re: Why we failed................

Post by 1964white » Sun May 19, 2019 9:10 pm

So what does these stats say about our attacking players ?

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Re: Why we failed................

Post by faaip » Sun May 19, 2019 9:23 pm

Lies, damn lies and statistics ...
GET IN THE BOAT AND ROW

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Re: Why we failed................

Post by Cjay » Sun May 19, 2019 9:24 pm

1964white wrote:
Sun May 19, 2019 9:10 pm
So what does these stats say about our attacking players ?
That they weren't good enough and we failed to provide Bielss with the correct tools.

It could have been so different :(

Look at some of the players we genuinely tried to sign (not unsubstantiated gossip actually really were having conversations about and with).

Harvey Barnes
Matej Vydra
Dan James
Harry Wilson
Jack Marriott.

1 of those was one of if not the standout player for the first half of the season.

Another is a proven Championship goalscorer who had already helped a side get promoted.

Another is a player we could have had cheaply who is now being linked with the top sides in the country.

And the other 2 played a large part in us losing the playoffs.

Hindsight is a wonderful thing but Jack Marriott and Harry Wilson cost less combined then Bamford alone (£2.5mil loan fee and a £3mil transfer fee up front with add ons).

What might have been ey.

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Re: Why we failed................

Post by Cjay » Sun May 19, 2019 9:25 pm

faaip wrote:
Sun May 19, 2019 9:23 pm
Lies, damn lies and statistics ...
MB has criticised our finishing all season, given the amount of information he has available and the amout of analysis he does how can it be wrong that our finishing has let us down?

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Re: Why we failed................

Post by faaip » Sun May 19, 2019 9:26 pm

1964white wrote:
Sun May 19, 2019 9:10 pm
So what does these stats say about our attacking players ?
Not a lot to be fair...they're statistics and fairly meaningless ones at that.
GET IN THE BOAT AND ROW

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Re: Why we failed................

Post by faaip » Sun May 19, 2019 9:31 pm

Cjay wrote:
Sun May 19, 2019 9:25 pm
MB has criticised our finishing all season, given the amount of information he has available and the amout of analysis he does how can it be wrong that our finishing has let us down?
Because I don't think Bielsa is blaming the players for that. Didn't we just do a whole Bielsa stands by his players thing? So either Bielsa is throwing our "finishers" under the bus or something wrong has been read into his earlier words.

If he is, as you suggest, criticizing our players then you have to re-evaluate everything we know about him.
GET IN THE BOAT AND ROW

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Re: Why we failed................

Post by faaip » Sun May 19, 2019 9:33 pm

Now can we stop this autopsy, we're not dead yet.
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Re: Why we failed................

Post by Denman » Sun May 19, 2019 9:43 pm

Just temporarily incapacitated!

It’s important to understand what went wrong so we can put it right next season. It wasn’t just the finishing, there’s lots to learn. I believe MB will; I hope Radz will.

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Re: Why we failed................

Post by SG90 » Sun May 19, 2019 10:04 pm

1964white wrote:
Sun May 19, 2019 9:10 pm
So what does these stats say about our attacking players ?
We're not ruthless enough that's the problem. We're too nice, there doesn't seem to be a ruthless person in our squad.
Radz out now

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Re: Why we failed................

Post by Cjay » Sun May 19, 2019 10:34 pm

faaip wrote:
Sun May 19, 2019 9:31 pm
Because I don't think Bielsa is blaming the players for that. Didn't we just do a whole Bielsa stands by his players thing? So either Bielsa is throwing our "finishers" under the bus or something wrong has been read into his earlier words.

If he is, as you suggest, criticizing our players then you have to re-evaluate everything we know about him.
He has stood by his players though, he could and would have been well within his rights to demand a lot more from the board in January but if the club are telling the truth he didnt.

He hasnt thrown them under the bus merely stated on numerous occasions we as a team need more chances to score then other teams.

I dont see anything wrong with that myself, he has stood by them all season but as others have said in match reports we have taken more chances to score then others, everything backs that up, stats, expected goals and peoples eyes when watching.

He has said "we need more chances to score then other teams" or words to that effect so many times it cant be a misunderstanding, that is his opinion and one i personally agree with.

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Re: Why we failed................

Post by faaip » Sun May 19, 2019 10:37 pm

I think something has been lost in translation. I don't for a second think that he thinks the strikers have been profligate. More that game circumstances have gone against us.
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Re: Why we failed................

Post by Irish Ian » Sun May 19, 2019 10:42 pm

The problem with those statistics is that they don't fully reflect what we happening in game.

A lot of those chances were just hopeful punts in the direction of the goal. Generally after we got frustrated at being unable to find our way through two lines of 5 defenders packed in and around the box.

Until we have some sort of "probability of scoring" number attached to said chances they remain unhelpful stats.

Do we think we missed more sitters than other sides? So of us might. But those figures in the Op give us no clue as to that.
"We can wait for the next game with serenity"

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Re: Why we failed................

Post by weasel » Sun May 19, 2019 11:58 pm

I have mentioned it before but it is the finishing as a whole team that is the problem. Take the last match for example and most of our chances fell to our full backs. Dallas scored a couple of goals but usually the full backs are not going to be the best finishers in the team, such as Ayling. So if for example we created 50 more chances for our full backs than Norwich or Sheff Utd did for theirs well you wouldn't be expecting a decent ratio of those chances to be converted usually. Take that Derby match again and I don't think our striker had a single chance. So it is not all about chances created but the quality of chances and who they fall to.
Senor El Weasel

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Re: Why we failed................

Post by SaraM » Mon May 20, 2019 12:04 am

SG90 wrote:
Sun May 19, 2019 10:04 pm
We're not ruthless enough that's the problem.
Think we were too Roofeless tbh.

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Re: Why we failed................

Post by leic white 63 » Mon May 20, 2019 5:48 am

plain and simple because our team on the whole wasn't good enough . we lost to many games . also should have invested in jan window ......wasn't rocket science.
losing to ten men wigan , amongst others and conceding four goals at home to derby is nothing less than criminal and is evidence enough.

we played some great stuff mind. really enjoyable season without being the finish article.
roll on next season !
Last edited by leic white 63 on Mon May 20, 2019 6:31 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Why we failed................

Post by 1964white » Mon May 20, 2019 6:14 am

weasel wrote:
Sun May 19, 2019 11:58 pm
I have mentioned it before but it is the finishing as a whole team that is the problem. Take the last match for example and most of our chances fell to our full backs. Dallas scored a couple of goals but usually the full backs are not going to be the best finishers in the team, such as Ayling. So if for example we created 50 more chances for our full backs than Norwich or Sheff Utd did for theirs well you wouldn't be expecting a decent ratio of those chances to be converted usually. Take that Derby match again and I don't think our striker had a single chance. So it is not all about chances created but the quality of chances and who they fall to.
Our forward players missed loads of clear-cut chances, many one-on-one opportunities

Bamford, Roofe, Harrison, Pablo, Klich, Alioski & Clarke all guilty, even when we get a penalty we miss them

Bielsa claimed we missed 250 guilt-edge chances back in February, a shocking statistic!

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Re: Why we failed................

Post by 1964white » Mon May 20, 2019 6:26 am

leic white 63 wrote:
Mon May 20, 2019 5:48 am
plain and simple because our team on the whole wasn't good enough . we lost to many games . also should have invested in jan window ......wasn't rocket science.
losing to ten men wigan , amongst others and conceding four goals at home to derby is nothing less than criminal and is evidence enough.
i rest my case !
we played some great stuff mind. really enjoyable season without being the finish article.
roll on next season !
Can't argue with that '63

If we still have the same players next season they do need to be more clinical in front of goal. Also our defenders/keepers have to cut out gifting far too many goals to the opposition, on our run-in we were leaking goals like the titanic whilst the blunts were keeping a tight ship.

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Re: Why we failed................

Post by leic white 63 » Mon May 20, 2019 8:54 am

1964white wrote:
Mon May 20, 2019 6:26 am
Can't argue with that '63

If we still have the same players next season they do need to be more clinical in front of goal. Also our defenders/keepers have to cut out gifting far too many goals to the opposition, on our run-in we were leaking goals like the titanic whilst the blunts were keeping a tight ship.
it is important to keep hold on to our better players and its important we build on our achievement . the table never lies , over 46 games we was the third best team . yes its been a disappointment but like any other successful teams that had just missed out in previous championship years , like your leicesters , brightons etc they all got over there disappointment and added to mainly to what they already had to make them stronger and some have been richly awarded . we must do the same !
anyways it would be nice to go up in our centenary year ....... be more the sweeter !
over and out :)

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Re: Why we failed................

Post by BGwhite » Mon May 20, 2019 11:27 am

Everyone seems to be focusing on the chances not being scored but even though the number of goals doesn't reflect the dominance in virtually every game I think we are forgetting what happened at the back. Since Kiko arrived we conceded more goals and lost more games compared to the first half of the season so this in itself is a major factor why we didn't go up automatically , if we had replicated the first half of the season we'd have been pretty much over the line with games to spare. Yes we weren't clinical enough but we fell apart at the back and the capitulation last week was the ultimate test which we failed miserably. The defence has been shown to panic all season once teams have a go at them and Derby sensed it when Koko & Cooper completely lost the plot hence the Derby onslaught after half time which again caused major panic. The attack needs improvement but the defence at times is shocking .

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