No Sentiment Please

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Cjay
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No Sentiment Please

Post by Cjay » Thu May 16, 2019 1:39 pm

We need a mass cleansing of the playing squad imo.

No room for sentiment, yes it was a good season but it should have been so much more.

For a lot of these players this wasn't the first time they have failed to hold their nerve, in some cases this was the 3rd in a row.

This sort of thing stays with players and some may never recover imo, happens once that can be got past, twice you start to worry, three times and fear and paranoia sets in.

So i think a lot need to go for the good of the club.

Liam Cooper- Much improved this season, but in big games he crumbles, he did yesterday, he did vs Norwich and Blades, as a captain he needs to be a leader, he isnt and for me its time to thank him and move him on.

Stuart Dallas- Hero for yesterday but there have been to many mediocre performances over the years. Same as Cooper he has been here a long time , like Cooper this is his 3rd season where they have been part of a squad that faded so for that he needs to go.

Kemar Roofe (sorry Faaip)- Three thoughts with this, firstly he has only a year left on his contract and I'm not sure whether he is worth the wage rise he will probably want. Secondly he is perhaps worth a decent chunk of money and we need cash and finally like the other two he to has been part of 3 squads that have faded.

Gaetano Berardi- Had enough of him, he is an ok defender but he never learns and the amount of red cards he has gotten is ridiculous. And ditto the 3 squads same as the others.

Luke Ayling- Slightly controversial maybe. I've never rated him as much as some, can't fault his commitment but like Cooper i dont think he is good enough overall. Same as all the above imo the 3 squad faders need to go and Ayling is another one. Good guy, loves the club, but there is a fragility in the squad that needs removing.

Patrick Bamford- I've defended him, i rate him, but he isnt a Bielsa player (Roofe is). I dont think he is mentally strong either and he looks shot mentally to me and we need players like that out the door.

So that for me is the start, it may seem controversial but looking at the bigger picture imo there is a mental fragility embedded in the playing squad and all the above are senior players who are part of it and most of them have shown it before.

You need to be mentally strong to play for us, i dont feel those players are.

As for who replaces them we can look to the youth maybe.

Gotts, Shacks, Clarke, Struijk, Halme, Diaz etc.

But i really do think this season is a turning point, as a club the new year fade is to often and to predictable to be a coincidence (3 seasons in a row 1st of January we drop).

So many of our first 11 this season were part of more then 1 squad that faded and i just feel we have to get that stench away from the squad, a fresh start.

Not to say they are bad players, but its more about the mental impact imo.

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Re: No Sentiment Please

Post by weasel » Thu May 16, 2019 1:52 pm

Given how well Alioski adapted to left back in terms of being able to attack from left back what about Dallas as the primary right back. With these 2 getting forwards we could well see 10-20 goals from the full backs from open play. With us playing 2 centrebacks and the defensive midfielder the 2 full backs primary objective isn't to defend but to get forward. Ayling goes to pieces in the opposition box and with a bit of composure from him last night he could have matched Dallas's goal output.

I think a lot of who we get rid of depends on what bids we receive. If we don't receive bids for the players you mentioned then they won't be sold and as such you have to make the most of them, be they back up or first team starters. If we get an offer for any player and we can use the money to make the team stronger then I think any player could be sold.
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Re: No Sentiment Please

Post by gessa » Thu May 16, 2019 2:36 pm

Not sure mass changes work, can't think of a time it has, 3 or 4 additions but have to be better than we have.

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Re: No Sentiment Please

Post by Cjay » Thu May 16, 2019 2:59 pm

weasel wrote:
Thu May 16, 2019 1:52 pm
Given how well Alioski adapted to left back in terms of being able to attack from left back what about Dallas as the primary right back. With these 2 getting forwards we could well see 10-20 goals from the full backs from open play. With us playing 2 centrebacks and the defensive midfielder the 2 full backs primary objective isn't to defend but to get forward. Ayling goes to pieces in the opposition box and with a bit of composure from him last night he could have matched Dallas's goal output.

I think a lot of who we get rid of depends on what bids we receive. If we don't receive bids for the players you mentioned then they won't be sold and as such you have to make the most of them, be they back up or first team starters. If we get an offer for any player and we can use the money to make the team stronger then I think any player could be sold.
Ali is a bit different though, he was a full back first and still played their for his country. Possible Dallas may have the ability but I'd worry about his defensive sense and think he may get caught out to often?

Just think its important to make the best of this shitty situation, we have a Championship winning u23 team.

Hugo Diaz has been immense as Captain playing as a cb or as a dm an area we do need someone else.

Pascal Struijk has for me looked the best cb the u23s have for a while now and as an Ajax academy player and left footer he seems ideal for Bielsa.

Robbie Gotts is a utility man who plays all over the place (like Dallas).

The definition of madness is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results, those i mentioned have had plenty of chances and just havent been quite enough.

The mental impact of missing out this season and fading in the previous 2 shouldn't be underestimated imo.

Whether anyone would want them i dont know but regardless aside from Roofe and Bamford imo they should be faded out one way or another.

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Re: No Sentiment Please

Post by Cjay » Thu May 16, 2019 3:05 pm

gessa wrote:
Thu May 16, 2019 2:36 pm
Not sure mass changes work, can't think of a time it has, 3 or 4 additions but have to be better than we have.

Is that not the benifit of our youth system playing the same way as the first team though?

Mass changes in players but actually the majority of them would be familiar with the style, coaches and the other members of the squad.

That was more my thinking, Radz is never going to bankroll huge sums but 3 or 4 real quality additions in key areas as you say.

Then instead of those mentioned use Struijk, Diaz, Halme, Shacks, Gotts, Kun, Bogusz, Malik Wilks, Lewie Coyle, Jay Roy Grot etc?


Just think if we stick with mainly the same squad the failure will linger like a bed smell.

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Re: No Sentiment Please

Post by SG90 » Thu May 16, 2019 3:25 pm

I agree it's time to say goodbye to a few. I think the likes of Cooper and Dallas are ok as squad players, but not starters.

-------------Kiko/New GK
Douglas-----Struijk---Jansson----Shackleton
-----------------------Phillips---------------
Wilks--------------Klich-----------Clarke
---------------------Number ten----------------
-----------------------Gignac---------------------

BPF/Miazek, Cooper, Ayling, King, Hernandez, Johansen, Striker

Gignac = Striker, ex Bielsa at Marseille
King = Andy, ooc at Leicester
Johansen = Stefan, ooc at Fulham

Sell Roofe, Bamford, Forshaw, Coyle, Denton, Ideguchi, Cibicki, De Bock, O'Kane, Sacko, Ekuban, Sarkic, Siddiki, Balboa.

Loan Roberts, Grot, Pearce, O'Connor, Dalby, Edmondson.
Casilla - Douglas - NEW - Jansson - Shackleton - Phillips - Klich - NEW - NEW - Clarke - NEW

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leic white 63
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Re: No Sentiment Please

Post by leic white 63 » Thu May 16, 2019 4:37 pm

without no hesitation i'd try and flog bamford . not to be over critical but he's soft as s**t.

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Re: No Sentiment Please

Post by joelufc20 » Thu May 16, 2019 4:58 pm

Get rid of the lot of them not fit to wear the shirt after the finish towards the end of the season. No desire. Bielsa needs to have a word with himself about plan B. He's just like Keegan

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joelufc20
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Re: No Sentiment Please

Post by joelufc20 » Thu May 16, 2019 4:59 pm

leic white 63 wrote:without no hesitation i'd try and flog bamford . not to be over critical but he's soft as s**t.
Useless. No pace and can't hold a ball up. Not really an Ariel threat eithet

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Re: No Sentiment Please

Post by joelufc20 » Thu May 16, 2019 5:01 pm

Realistically I'd build around

Ayling
jansson
Phillips
Pablo
Alioski
Klich

Rest need replacing including the keeper who is dog crap

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Re: No Sentiment Please

Post by faaip » Thu May 16, 2019 5:02 pm

No need to say sorry but I'd extend Roofe in a heartbeat unless he wants way to much. I absolutely know he's a very good footballer and a natural predator in the box. Nothing to do with sentiment, everything to do with what we need and a conviction he'd get the job done next season. I'll ask again, would you want him playing against us next season because a Prem club is probably not coming in for him.
BPF - Hossannah - Halme - Diaz - Struijk - Oduor - Gotts - Stevens - McCalmont - Temenuzhkov - Shackleton

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Re: No Sentiment Please

Post by faaip » Thu May 16, 2019 5:05 pm

Bamford naturally sits too deep, he does hold up play well, he does have a good eye for goal when he gets the ball at his feet. He's a clever passer of the ball and absolutely needs a quicker forward/attacking mid playing off him. We haven't had that this season outside of Saiz who's finishing was sub par
BPF - Hossannah - Halme - Diaz - Struijk - Oduor - Gotts - Stevens - McCalmont - Temenuzhkov - Shackleton

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Re: No Sentiment Please

Post by Cjay » Thu May 16, 2019 5:12 pm

faaip wrote:
Thu May 16, 2019 5:02 pm
No need to say sorry but I'd extend Roofe in a heartbeat unless he wants way to much. I absolutely know he's a very good footballer and a natural predator in the box. Nothing to do with sentiment, everything to do with what we need and a conviction he'd get the job done next season. I'll ask again, would you want him playing against us next season because a Prem club is probably not coming in for him.
Cant remember who said it but it was reported he wanted parity with the top earners so thats got to be £30-50k as i presume thats Kiko or Bamford.

Imo it depends on as you say how much he wants, whether Bielsa wants better (he has been very critical of our finishing so Roofe is part of that) and is it worth selling him (how much we would get).

If Bielsa stays I'd be amazed if he didnt demand a goalscorer, if so that pushes Roofe down the pecking order, then he loses his bargaining chip and cant see the club offering Roofe big wages if Bielsa sees him as backup.

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Re: No Sentiment Please

Post by faaip » Thu May 16, 2019 5:41 pm

Roofe would have scored, lets say 25 minimum, this season had he played in all games. That's a strikers haul for this division. He probably scores more though as he doesn't have to "come back" from injury twice.

Roofe's pace and movement scares defenders and he's a very good touch passer with quick feet and a high football IQ. If I were to build a perfect striker I'd want these attributes high on my wish list. I do wish he had a little more power but if he did he'd be scoring 25 a season in the prem.

He's an off ball striker, which means his best work is done when he's not on the ball. That's dragging defenders around, losing markers and arriving at the right time to score. There's none better in division and that 25 guaranteed goals will cost you 10 -15 mill to replace. I'd rather spend that on a number 10 or good left winger. Both positions of need.
BPF - Hossannah - Halme - Diaz - Struijk - Oduor - Gotts - Stevens - McCalmont - Temenuzhkov - Shackleton

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Re: No Sentiment Please

Post by hector » Thu May 16, 2019 6:14 pm

faaip wrote:
Thu May 16, 2019 5:41 pm
Roofe would have scored, lets say 25 minimum, this season had he played in all games. That's a strikers haul for this division. He probably scores more though as he doesn't have to "come back" from injury twice.

Roofe's pace and movement scares defenders and he's a very good touch passer with quick feet and a high football IQ. If I were to build a perfect striker I'd want these attributes high on my wish list. I do wish he had a little more power but if he did he'd be scoring 25 a season in the prem.

He's an off ball striker, which means his best work is done when he's not on the ball. That's dragging defenders around, losing markers and arriving at the right time to score. There's none better in division and that 25 guaranteed goals will cost you 10 -15 mill to replace. I'd rather spend that on a number 10 or good left winger. Both positions of need.
I agree in full :tup:
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So I tell the wife when she tells me to get off my arse and do some work. :(

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Re: No Sentiment Please

Post by weasel » Thu May 16, 2019 6:25 pm

I think either of our strikers could be enough for this division. Like Faaip says an injury free Roofe probably scores 25 goals and Bamford scored 10 despite not playing many matches and not looking quite right after the injuries so either would look capable of scoring 25+. The bigger problem is the lack of goals from elsewhere. If we play 1 striker then that means the rest of the team needs to chip in a lot more than they did this season. A big problem was the lack of goals from the no10 - as a secondary striker type role we didn't get any goals from Tyler Roberts or Saiz and I don't think Hernandez got many either when he played there.
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Re: No Sentiment Please

Post by Cjay » Thu May 16, 2019 6:43 pm

faaip wrote:
Thu May 16, 2019 5:41 pm
Roofe would have scored, lets say 25 minimum, this season had he played in all games. That's a strikers haul for this division. He probably scores more though as he doesn't have to "come back" from injury twice.

Roofe's pace and movement scares defenders and he's a very good touch passer with quick feet and a high football IQ. If I were to build a perfect striker I'd want these attributes high on my wish list. I do wish he had a little more power but if he did he'd be scoring 25 a season in the prem.

He's an off ball striker, which means his best work is done when he's not on the ball. That's dragging defenders around, losing markers and arriving at the right time to score. There's none better in division and that 25 guaranteed goals will cost you 10 -15 mill to replace. I'd rather spend that on a number 10 or good left winger. Both positions of need.
We do disagree on Roofe but i dont think he is someone who needs to be sold like i do Cooper, Dallas, Berardi etc.

But it depends on MB, i really dont think Bamford or Roofe were what he wanted as a striker this season, Roofe was a backup choice and Bamford was a backup signing after the 1st and 2nd choices fell through.

I trust MBs judgement on a player, if he personally identifies a striker or whatever i hope we get them.

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Re: No Sentiment Please

Post by faaip » Thu May 16, 2019 7:34 pm

weasel wrote:
Thu May 16, 2019 6:25 pm
I think either of our strikers could be enough for this division. Like Faaip says an injury free Roofe probably scores 25 goals and Bamford scored 10 despite not playing many matches and not looking quite right after the injuries so either would look capable of scoring 25+. The bigger problem is the lack of goals from elsewhere. If we play 1 striker then that means the rest of the team needs to chip in a lot more than they did this season. A big problem was the lack of goals from the no10 - as a secondary striker type role we didn't get any goals from Tyler Roberts or Saiz and I don't think Hernandez got many either when he played there.
We had 4 players score ten plus, I really don't think scoring was that much of an issue. Supply was an issue, both Bamford and Roofe had to deal with a lot of over or under hit crosses, defenders got in the way an awful lot as most teams played with 9 men defences against us...and as you say the lack of a true number 10 once Saiz went.

The biggest issue was though the conceding of really poor goals. Lapses of concentration in defence, poor communication between defenders and the keepers, a lack of a stud DMF (Phillips played really well all season but he's not yet fully grown into his new position. That will take at least another season) and the shoe horning, when it probably wasn't necessary, non defenders into defensive roles. MB wanted to play Harrison regularly, he also wanted to play Alioski, so Alio gets put at LB where he looked a fish out of water. Alio to right wing for me next season where he reins supreme for us if Pablo steps away...

Then there was the lack of CD continuity over 46 games we had I think at least 5 or 6 different partnerships and that creates a problem all of it's own
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Re: No Sentiment Please

Post by weasel » Thu May 16, 2019 8:00 pm

Joint 6th top scorers in the division despite having most chances by far. 3rd best for goals conceded. It is alright saying 4 players got 10+ but the trouble is that 2 of those were the 2 strikers who occupied 1 spot so in effect it is only 3 scoring 10. We averaged just over 1 1/2 goals per game which is abysmal considering we probably averaged 20+ chances per game. In effect we averaged 1 1/2 goals per game and conceded 1 goal per game so it is no surprise that we lost a lot of games when we didn't take our chances.
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Re: No Sentiment Please

Post by SaraM » Thu May 16, 2019 11:31 pm

hector wrote:
Thu May 16, 2019 6:14 pm
I agree in full :tup:
Likewise. Roofe fully fit for the season with a decent no 10 for me. I think he can probably get better with more time under Bielsa, and it would cost too much to find an upgrade, when there are other areas which need addressing first.

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