Bottled it

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White Riot
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Re: Bottled it

Post by White Riot » Sat Apr 20, 2019 5:18 am

Cjay wrote:
Fri Apr 19, 2019 4:04 pm
Time and time and time again.

Wigan had 10 men and had 7 points in total away from home.

Bottled it vs Stoke.
Bottled it vs QPR
Bottled it vs Sheffield United.
Bottled it vs Norwich
Bottled it vs Birmingham.

So many chances to take advantage and we always conspire to f**k it up.

Do our players lack bottle?

Seriously because today was a disgrace.
Hi Vijay,

Yes, they do lack bottle and are bullied by big physical teams.

They show a lack of composure and this is reflected in poor defending and woeful finishing.

Most of them are the same guys who bottled it two years ago under Monk. We play better football now, but essentially they don't produce when it matters. This is why they've gifted the auto place back to blunts and will bottle it in the playoffs.

They are not mentally strong enough and the chickens we all have identified throughout the season have come home to roost.

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Re: Bottled it

Post by White Riot » Sat Apr 20, 2019 5:19 am

Sorry Cjay, not the predictive text Vijay

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Re: Bottled it

Post by mothbanquet » Sat Apr 20, 2019 5:49 am

SaraM wrote:
Fri Apr 19, 2019 10:57 pm
We're perfectly capable of beating them both.
We've shown that we're capable of beating every team in this league (except Birmingham), but not with performances like yesterday's. Even then, considering our place in the table all season very few teams actually fear us. They know our players can be rattled even in front of the ER faithful, and Wigan exploited that weakness expertly.

But all season long we've had folk saying we'd crash and burn, that we'd be midtable by now. When we've stumbled we've risen, when knocked down, we've gotten back up. It's not over yet and until it is, we can't give up hope. I just pray the players are saying the same thing to themselves.

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Re: Bottled it

Post by 1964white » Sat Apr 20, 2019 6:24 am

We are likely to know for certain if we've totally bottled it by tomorrow night

Our pool of players are basically small, soft bellied & easily bullied, we have no pace & we can't cope with pace so we are always vulnerable

I fear the dreaded play-offs are imminent, whether we have enough bottle to handle them is debatable

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Re: Bottled it

Post by White Riot » Sat Apr 20, 2019 7:25 am

1964white wrote:
Sat Apr 20, 2019 6:24 am
We are likely to know for certain if we've totally bottled it by tomorrow night

Our pool of players are basically small, soft bellied & easily bullied, we have no pace & we can't cope with pace so we are always vulnerable

I fear the dreaded play-offs are imminent, whether we have enough bottle to handle them is debatable
Hi 64,

That was a crushing blow yesterday, I didn't watch it and pleased I didn't as I'm fuming enough.

The two gaosl they got seemed like soft gifts by us. Even the physically big or supposedly tough players we have like Jansson, Cooper, Berardi and Bamford often seem to get shoved off the ball. Bamford's hold up play is often weak as piss and these big centre backs like Boro/Brum love it when they see a nice soft centre forward. Same at the back big guys like Evans seem to win headers and tussles against us way too easily - Blackburn did the same to us at Ewood.

The rest of them are all midgets with just Pablo up front whose too tricky to be robbed most times, but veen he had a bad day yesterday. I can forgive Pablo as he's orchestrated most of our great play this eason, but everyone else went missing on a day when we needed them to stand up and be counted. We let the mighty Wigan run right through us to score them goals = track players and put a tackle in ffs.

I'm still fuming as I had real hope this season, largely down to Bielsa, but sad to say we've blown it and now hoping SU blow it again. I don't see them imploding again.

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Re: Bottled it

Post by White Riot » Sat Apr 20, 2019 7:28 am

I'll correct myself and spare Ayling from criticism as he's tried his guts out lately and seems like he put a good shift in yesterday - that's all I ask of any of them.

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Re: Bottled it

Post by 1964white » Sat Apr 20, 2019 9:22 am

White Riot wrote:
Sat Apr 20, 2019 7:25 am
Hi 64,

That was a crushing blow yesterday, I didn't watch it and pleased I didn't as I'm fuming enough.

The two gaosl they got seemed like soft gifts by us. Even the physically big or supposedly tough players we have like Jansson, Cooper, Berardi and Bamford often seem to get shoved off the ball. Bamford's hold up play is often weak as piss and these big centre backs like Boro/Brum love it when they see a nice soft centre forward. Same at the back big guys like Evans seem to win headers and tussles against us way too easily - Blackburn did the same to us at Ewood.

The rest of them are all midgets with just Pablo up front whose too tricky to be robbed most times, but veen he had a bad day yesterday. I can forgive Pablo as he's orchestrated most of our great play this eason, but everyone else went missing on a day when we needed them to stand up and be counted. We let the mighty Wigan run right through us to score them goals = track players and put a tackle in ffs.

I'm still fuming as I had real hope this season, largely down to Bielsa, but sad to say we've blown it and now hoping SU blow it again. I don't see them imploding again.
Indeed that was crushing blow WR. The Wigan game was a give me if our players had applied themselves to the level they are capable of, now there is no room for error in our final three games.

Pablo is a clever player whose ability & influence in our attacking play is so important.

Others are not so clever who can fall apart at will

Bielsa who is responsible for our top three position, god knows where we would be without him this season but even the great man made mistakes with his substitutions which were far too early imo!

Roofe for Roberts was a nonsense
It is rumoured Phillips took a knock, if that's the case Forshaw was the obvious choice
Clarke couldn't skin a rice pudding right now, Jack needed to be put to bed until next season

Shackleton who has pace & energy should have been given another opportunity to shine, Jamie hasn't let us down previously although it seems Marcelo has gone off him

Alioski & Pontus were gobbing it off to the officials about Wigan's time-wasting, well I'm sorry you mouthy gits you brought on that scenario yourselves. Had we built on our 1-0 lead v ten men in a professional manner all the silly verbal tantrums would have been non-existent

Yes we have limited options off the bench but whose fault is that playing with such a slim squad that is carrying average players & young kids as your back-up ?

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Re: Bottled it

Post by Cjay » Sat Apr 20, 2019 11:58 am

White Riot wrote:
Sat Apr 20, 2019 5:18 am
Hi Vijay,

Yes, they do lack bottle and are bullied by big physical teams.

They show a lack of composure and this is reflected in poor defending and woeful finishing.

Most of them are the same guys who bottled it two years ago under Monk. We play better football now, but essentially they don't produce when it matters. This is why they've gifted the auto place back to blunts and will bottle it in the playoffs.

They are not mentally strong enough and the chickens we all have identified throughout the season have come home to roost.
Hi Riot.

Spot on.

I always felt we were a mid table squad, said that at the start of the season, but MB has worked miracles.

Unfortunately we have seen that lack of quality come through when it matters most, never more so then yesterday.

I still can't believe what i watched yesterday, absolutely shell shocked.

So so angry, sad, disappointed, really feel we have blown it.

I firmly blame Radz and Orta for this, between the pair of them they have recruited very poorly and when a bit of ambition was required Radz refused.

Phil Hay has basically confirmed James was available earlier but we held out for a smaller fee.

This season may not come around again for years.

And to have it in the palm of our hand so many times and fail is horrible.

We just have to hope now but after yesterday its very difficult to see us getting autos and we wont win the playoffs.

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Re: Bottled it

Post by SG90 » Sat Apr 20, 2019 12:10 pm

Cjay wrote:
Sat Apr 20, 2019 11:58 am
We just have to hope now but after yesterday its very difficult to see us getting autos and we wont win the playoffs.
We do have the best record v the top 6, so I do think we can win the playoffs if we turn up. The one team I'd most want to avoid is Boro, as we will struggle with their height and physicality and defensive record. Here's hoping they miss out.
What I want from an owner: 1. Ambition. 2. Wage bill control. 3. Cut spending on loan fees. 4. Better scouting. 5. Get bigger fees for our best players. 6.No ego.

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Re: Bottled it

Post by Cjay » Sat Apr 20, 2019 12:16 pm

SG90 wrote:
Sat Apr 20, 2019 12:10 pm
We do have the best record v the top 6, so I do think we can win the playoffs if we turn up. The one team I'd most want to avoid is Boro, as we will struggle with their height and physicality and defensive record. Here's hoping they miss out.
"If we turn up".

After yesterday i don't think we have the mental strength tbh.

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Re: Bottled it

Post by SG90 » Sat Apr 20, 2019 12:19 pm

Cjay wrote:
Sat Apr 20, 2019 12:16 pm
"If we turn up".

After yesterday i don't think we have the mental strength tbh.
It depends. If we play teams that try to attack us, we generally do well. That's why I'd be worried about Boro, as we'd struggle to break them down and we need 10 shots to score.

Generally wouldn't be worried about WBA, Villa or Bristol City.
What I want from an owner: 1. Ambition. 2. Wage bill control. 3. Cut spending on loan fees. 4. Better scouting. 5. Get bigger fees for our best players. 6.No ego.

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Re: Bottled it

Post by Cjay » Sat Apr 20, 2019 12:21 pm

SG90 wrote:
Sat Apr 20, 2019 12:19 pm
It depends. If we play teams that try to attack us, we generally do well. That's why I'd be worried about Boro, as we'd struggle to break them down and we need 10 shots to score.

Generally wouldn't be worried about WBA, Villa or Bristol City.
I'd much rather we get autos :lol:

Understand what you are saying but the playoffs are a lottery.

We have already seen our players are mentally fragile.

After spending most of the season top 2 would they be able to pick themselves up and go again?

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Re: Bottled it

Post by SG90 » Sat Apr 20, 2019 12:41 pm

Cjay wrote:
Sat Apr 20, 2019 12:21 pm
I'd much rather we get autos :lol:

Understand what you are saying but the playoffs are a lottery.

We have already seen our players are mentally fragile.

After spending most of the season top 2 would they be able to pick themselves up and go again?
Me too. But I just don't see us winning all 3 to do it. Getting promoted at Wembley would be much better than being runners up tbh, but we have to turn up in them. We seem to raise our game against the top 6, which is a good sign.
What I want from an owner: 1. Ambition. 2. Wage bill control. 3. Cut spending on loan fees. 4. Better scouting. 5. Get bigger fees for our best players. 6.No ego.

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Re: Bottled it

Post by SaraM » Sat Apr 20, 2019 12:51 pm

Cjay wrote:
Sat Apr 20, 2019 12:21 pm
We have already seen our players are mentally fragile.
I still don't buy this, even after yesterday.

You can say we are inconsistent, or lacking quality in certain areas, but the mentally fragile tag doesn't stack up with; holding on to our lead in every single game this season, apart from yesterday; the number of goals scored in the last ten minutes of games to win points; the way in which we have repeatedly bounced back from defeats and poor performances.

A squad that you say is mid table in quality would not have been in the top four all season if they were also 'fragile'. Yes, Bielsa has coached the living daylights out of them, but they had to have the ability, and the willingness, to respond and put the effort in, and also the belief that they could do it.

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Re: Bottled it

Post by SaraM » Sat Apr 20, 2019 12:59 pm

Maybe they got complacent yesterday, maybe they felt they were nearly home and dry. Maybe yesterday was exactly the kick up the arse they needed to go out and fight their way over the line...

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Re: Bottled it

Post by Cjay » Sat Apr 20, 2019 1:58 pm

SG90 wrote:
Sat Apr 20, 2019 12:41 pm
Me too. But I just don't see us winning all 3 to do it. Getting promoted at Wembley would be much better than being runners up tbh, but we have to turn up in them. We seem to raise our game against the top 6, which is a good sign.
Can only hope.

We have been much weaker since the turn of the year

Lost 7 of 18.

4 in 25 before January.

We are fading and for that reason i cant see a sudden upturn for the playoffs.

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Re: Bottled it

Post by Cjay » Sat Apr 20, 2019 2:02 pm

SaraM wrote:
Sat Apr 20, 2019 12:51 pm
I still don't buy this, even after yesterday.

You can say we are inconsistent, or lacking quality in certain areas, but the mentally fragile tag doesn't stack up with; holding on to our lead in every single game this season, apart from yesterday; the number of goals scored in the last ten minutes of games to win points; the way in which we have repeatedly bounced back from defeats and poor performances.

A squad that you say is mid table in quality would not have been in the top four all season if they were also 'fragile'. Yes, Bielsa has coached the living daylights out of them, but they had to have the ability, and the willingness, to respond and put the effort in, and also the belief that they could do it.
Yesterday imo showed a mental fragility.

When the pressure is on, when we are in a position to take advantage we have failed multiple times.

Is that quality, fragility? Maybe both.

Bielsa is famous for getting the maximum out of a squad in the short term but fading as the season goes on.

That is exactly what has happened.

At the business end Bielsa sides fade.

Why?

Also traditionally we fade post new year, this is traceable going back years.

Again is that squad quality, is it mental fragility.

Whatever it is many of this squad were here in previous seasons when the exact same thing happened.

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Re: Bottled it

Post by SaraM » Sat Apr 20, 2019 2:39 pm

Cjay wrote:
Sat Apr 20, 2019 2:02 pm
Yesterday imo showed a mental fragility.
Only if you take it out of the context of the season as a whole.

The rest of your argument only holds good if we don't get promoted, which is not yet a given. You are simply extrapolating an outcome based on our poorest performances, rather than our performances as a whole.

I also think it's pretty arbitrary dividing the season into two halfs. All teams have runs of good and poor form, which can come at any time, and be due to a number of factors. Having a poorer run in the second half is not, of itself, evidence of 'fading'.

You may be right, but I think we're just as likely to come out and blow the next three teams off the park. We'll just have to live with the uncertainty until we see what happens.

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Re: Bottled it

Post by Cjay » Sat Apr 20, 2019 6:33 pm

SaraM wrote:
Sat Apr 20, 2019 2:39 pm
Only if you take it out of the context of the season as a whole.

The rest of your argument only holds good if we don't get promoted, which is not yet a given. You are simply extrapolating an outcome based on our poorest performances, rather than our performances as a whole.

I also think it's pretty arbitrary dividing the season into two halfs. All teams have runs of good and poor form, which can come at any time, and be due to a number of factors. Having a poorer run in the second half is not, of itself, evidence of 'fading'.

You may be right, but I think we're just as likely to come out and blow the next three teams off the park. We'll just have to live with the uncertainty until we see what happens.
I hope you're right, we will need to be at our best for the remaining games.

We will need some luck to.

Lets hope the gods are kind.

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Re: Bottled it

Post by 1964white » Sat Apr 20, 2019 7:05 pm

Cjay wrote:
Sat Apr 20, 2019 1:58 pm
Can only hope.

We have been much weaker since the turn of the year

Lost 7 of 18.

4 in 25 before January.

We are fading and for that reason i cant see a sudden upturn for the playoffs.
When you look at those stats it makes you cringe Cjay

All we have is hope & totally relying on the Blunts cocking up again, they have only lost 2 games in 2019, Norwich lost one this year

Lets hope we have learned our lessons if we still have Bielsa next season

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