The Early #LUFC Breakfast Debate (Mon 18th Mar)

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Re: The Early #LUFC Breakfast Debate (Mon 18th Mar)

Post by Ellandback1 »

Jansson will be out of action for 3 weeks.
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Re: The Early #LUFC Breakfast Debate (Mon 18th Mar)

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Re: The Early #LUFC Breakfast Debate (Mon 18th Mar)

Post by weasel »

When you look at the performance of the Blades forward line of ex Leeds flop Billy Sharp (23 goals), free transfer David McGoldrick (12 goals), and one season sensation Scott Hogan (3 goals) - would any of these players have got any game time, let alone a place on the bench at the start of the season had they been on Leeds books?

Depends on whether MB would have fitted them into his system. Several of our players this season wouldn't have got much playing time if the fans had been managers, KP and Cooper the main 2.

Let's add Ollie Norwood to that equation and let me ask, how much grief would the club have received if they had been even linked with any of these players?

Our fans always seem to judge players by how much they cost. Plenty of bargains for the right manager. How much would we have received in transfer fees if we had sold KP and Cooper in the summer? Prob not much more than £200k each.

Bearing this in mind should our 8m forward line of Bamford and Roberts have done better?

Possibly although the chances seemed to be spread around the team, Roberts was unlucky with his shot that hit the post - a couple of inches and it is back of the net.

You'll recall at the post match presser after the West Brom game, Bielsa commented that he had to keep Bamford on the pitch (for an extra 50 minutes) as he didn't have any other options?

Was Bamford MATCH FIT to play?


I think he was fit, maybe not 100% though. I think his style of play is a bit languid so he perhaps never really looks fully fit.

Before you ask, I was talking about Brown, and 'apparently' he was ill on Saturday.... Hhhmmmmmm...

Why the continued clamour about Brown not being involved on Saturday lunchtime - he played 120 minutes on Thursday night. Considering how much time he has been out I am surprised he wasn't at home with an oxygen tank.

Cooper had a game to forget at the weekend, but considering how well he has played this season, I'm sure he can be forgiven - unless of course you're one of the social media boo boys! Definitely, every player will make a couple of mistakes in a season. Certainly his error wasn't as bad as the shots that Hernandez and Bamford missed in the second half v Reading.

Jansson picked up a lot of stick on social media for play acting. Even former gaffer Simon Grayson commentating for TalkSport said “If he rolls around any more, he will injure his other knee".

Where ever there is trouble, Jansson is not far away!


It is a fair comment. PJ often goes down as if he has had his leg broken but is fine. I don't like it, not the Yorkshire way. If I got a knock no way would I show that it was painful and give my opponent any psychological edge. We'd have players on my team that would go down all the time and you'd almost be rolling your eyes and thinking get up you soft tw*t.
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Re: The Early #LUFC Breakfast Debate (Mon 18th Mar)

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Irish Ian wrote: Mon Mar 18, 2019 1:08 am Sometimes you strength can be your weakness. With Bielsa I detect that. He has a system. It works we know that. But being so convinced that IT WILL ALWAYS WORK is a weakness which will needed to be overcome if we are to succeed going forward, I feel that Brown not getting a proper run in the side reveals that. We need to adapt.

Jansson should have been subbed when he got injured but he wanted to stay on
With regards to the Bielsa system I don't think there is a specific weakness that we have succumbed to - it just relies on the players being able to do what the system needs which is why City are able to do it better as they have better players and as such if they create 17 chances well they are gonna score a goal so suddenly the problem/weakness goes away. All systems obviously have their strengths and weaknesses but no team has simply outplayed us and stopped us from creating more chances than them.

I think all the subs had been brought on when PJ picked up his injury.
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Re: The Early #LUFC Breakfast Debate (Mon 18th Mar)

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Afternoon all. Time's short so I'll make these quick (for me).

Leeds dominated large parts of the game, 70% possession and 17 shots at goal prove this; however over 90 minutes Leeds could not muster a single shot on target. Bearing this in mind should our 8m forward line of Bamford and Roberts have done better?

Story of our season, words I've repeated countless times this weekend. Not clinical enough, silly mistakes, missed opportunity, yadda yadda yadda.

We've also been saying repeatedly that these players who finished 14th last season have improved so much as to be unrecognisable. So when we take these factors together and look at the expectations/quality of the Blunts and Norwich - let's face it, neither are Wolves/Newcastle of seasons past - what I'm seeing is a hell of a lot of good luck on their part and bad luck on ours. I think I can speak for every Leeds fan when I say this is what we're used to.

But one thing we're not used to is bouncing back quickly after bad results and that's what this team is capable of doing. Blunts have Bristol and Norwich have Boro after the break. It's a perfect opportunity for both teams to drop points and perhaps even start a blip, something both our opponents are due.

It was as I recieved a ribbing from my Sheffield-supporting mate that I realised this loss didn't hurt as much as I'd feared it would, and I felt a fair bit of confidence when I smiled and told him we'd see who's laughing at the end of the season. A point is nothing when there are 2 or 3 games left to play. With 8 games, it's less than nothing.

Was Bamford MATCH FIT to play?

For the first half at least he did everything but score. He keeps the ball so well and brings teammates into play in the final third, letting others get on the scoresheet. That dummy for Klich's goal in the Reading game was as much his as Klichy's.

I'm not going to write him off just yet. Two weeks to sort out his head and hopefully we'll get some good news regarding Roofe in the meantime.

If only we had a talented U23 forward that was scoring goals for fun?

Brown played 120 mins during the week, no way he was going to be in a state to affect the outcome. If Clarke couldn't manage it, then Brown had no chance. I was disappointed to see Douglas and not Shackleton, I can only guess with Pontus going up front Bielsa wanted as many crosses whipped in as possible without being overly exposed for the counter?

Cooper had a game to forget at the weekend, but considering how well he has played this season, I'm sure he can be forgiven.

Absolutely. He was due a poor game and Basham was plain lucky to poke the ball in that gap between Casilla and the post. Nowhere near time to get on Coop's case yet.

Jansson had an interesting game.


I don't think he's going to forget that one in a hurry, playing 3 positions in one game. It was mesmerising stuff and I couldn't help but laugh my tits off. This is why Leeds are box office under Bielsa. Even when we lose, we're entertainment gold. Still, like Cooper, I'm not going to give one of our star players stick over one performance in a game where we didn't play badly. I'm sure he'll pick himself up with the others and be raring to go after the break.

Casilla made a ruthless call by bringing down Sharp. If only we'd nicked an equaliser, he'd be a hero.
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Re: The Early #LUFC Breakfast Debate (Mon 18th Mar)

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weasel wrote: Mon Mar 18, 2019 1:00 pm With regards to the Bielsa system I don't think there is a specific weakness that we have succumbed to - it just relies on the players being able to do what the system needs which is why City are able to do it better as they have better players and as such if they create 17 chances well they are gonna score a goal so suddenly the problem/weakness goes away.
You know, I work with a mate who's constantly derided Guardiola and his tactics, saying he could never do it with a lesser team than Barca/Bayern/City, a not unpopular opinion. I've read a fair bit on Pep's management and tactical nous, but this season I think Leeds have shown what a less wealthy side would look like were they managed by him - punching far, far above their weight considering the quality of their players.

I wasn't entirely convinced by Pep's invincibility because of the riches his current and previous clubs have had, but my mind has been changed a fair bit by what Bielsa's managed to achieve.
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Re: The Early #LUFC Breakfast Debate (Mon 18th Mar)

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weasel wrote: Mon Mar 18, 2019 12:44 pm When you look at the performance of the Blades forward line of ex Leeds flop Billy Sharp (23 goals), free transfer David McGoldrick (12 goals), and one season sensation Scott Hogan (3 goals) - would any of these players have got any game time, let alone a place on the bench at the start of the season had they been on Leeds books?

Depends on whether MB would have fitted them into his system. Several of our players this season wouldn't have got much playing time if the fans had been managers, KP and Cooper the main 2.

Let's add Ollie Norwood to that equation and let me ask, how much grief would the club have received if they had been even linked with any of these players?

Our fans always seem to judge players by how much they cost. Plenty of bargains for the right manager. How much would we have received in transfer fees if we had sold KP and Cooper in the summer? Prob not much more than £200k each.

Bearing this in mind should our 8m forward line of Bamford and Roberts have done better?

Possibly although the chances seemed to be spread around the team, Roberts was unlucky with his shot that hit the post - a couple of inches and it is back of the net.

You'll recall at the post match presser after the West Brom game, Bielsa commented that he had to keep Bamford on the pitch (for an extra 50 minutes) as he didn't have any other options?

Was Bamford MATCH FIT to play?


I think he was fit, maybe not 100% though. I think his style of play is a bit languid so he perhaps never really looks fully fit.

Before you ask, I was talking about Brown, and 'apparently' he was ill on Saturday.... Hhhmmmmmm...

Why the continued clamour about Brown not being involved on Saturday lunchtime - he played 120 minutes on Thursday night. Considering how much time he has been out I am surprised he wasn't at home with an oxygen tank.

Cooper had a game to forget at the weekend, but considering how well he has played this season, I'm sure he can be forgiven - unless of course you're one of the social media boo boys! Definitely, every player will make a couple of mistakes in a season. Certainly his error wasn't as bad as the shots that Hernandez and Bamford missed in the second half v Reading.

Jansson picked up a lot of stick on social media for play acting. Even former gaffer Simon Grayson commentating for TalkSport said “If he rolls around any more, he will injure his other knee".

Where ever there is trouble, Jansson is not far away!


It is a fair comment. PJ often goes down as if he has had his leg broken but is fine. I don't like it, not the Yorkshire way. If I got a knock no way would I show that it was painful and give my opponent any psychological edge. We'd have players on my team that would go down all the time and you'd almost be rolling your eyes and thinking get up you soft tw*t.
Afternoon Weasel

You are absolutely right about Leeds fans judging players on how much they cost!!"!

And other clubs call us fickle!!! :shock: :shock: :shock:
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Re: The Early #LUFC Breakfast Debate (Mon 18th Mar)

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weasel wrote: Mon Mar 18, 2019 1:00 pm With regards to the Bielsa system I don't think there is a specific weakness that we have succumbed to - it just relies on the players being able to do what the system needs which is why City are able to do it better as they have better players and as such if they create 17 chances well they are gonna score a goal so suddenly the problem/weakness goes away. All systems obviously have their strengths and weaknesses but no team has simply outplayed us and stopped us from creating more chances than them.

I think all the subs had been brought on when PJ picked up his injury.
To be honest, I think both teams cancelled each other out on Saturday, apart from the lapse in defence.

We were clearly the better team though
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Re: The Early #LUFC Breakfast Debate (Mon 18th Mar)

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Norwood would have been an excellent signing, Sharp is a bit like Roofe but doesnt have his energy but a better finisher, think they both would have a ppace in our side but Sharp seems extra motivated for Blades i dont think we would get the same amount of goals out of him.

Roberts is talented but he is far from the finished article, as such we will get inconsistent performances. Paddy has done a great job since returning, but for a great block he probably scores. Doubt he is 100% match fit and is probably being forced to play more minutes then he should. Bielsa picks the bench he could and should be using Edmondson imo, he had no options because he didnt put them on the bench.

I dont think Bielsa rates Brown, really dont, i watch him for the u23s and while clearly talented he is lazy, if you watch him for the u23s you can see why Bielsa wouldn't play him. Compare him to Bogusz who runs around like an absolute lunatic, that may seem inconsequential to us but to Bielsa he values that so much, its the reason Dallas gets games. Its a shame because Brown could be a difference maker but the Browm deal was daft from the start and is fast becoming the most pointless signing for ages and a total waste of money.

Cooper was very poor, he wasnt alone, but he was directly responsible for the defeat. As long as its a one off thats fine but it cant happen again, to late in the season for mistakes and tbh Cooper was weak vs the Blades.

Jansson was clearly hurt, in hindsight i wish he hadnt built the game up on social media, it didnt help and its another stick to beat us with.

Very nervous about Millwall now, Berardi or Phillips vs that side in the air is a total mismatch and unfortunately Cooper isnt a great deal better in that respect, Kiko would have been a great help but now we need to hope some of Kiko's confidence has rubbed off on BPF. Kiko has had some dodgy moments but one thing he isnt is indecisive and been largely impressed with his command of the box, hope he helps BPF in the next week or two.
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Re: The Early #LUFC Breakfast Debate (Mon 18th Mar)

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Cjay wrote: Mon Mar 18, 2019 10:31 pm I dont think Bielsa rates Brown, really dont, i watch him for the u23s and while clearly talented he is lazy, if you watch him for the u23s you can see why Bielsa wouldn't play him. Compare him to Bogusz who runs around like an absolute lunatic, that may seem inconsequential to us but to Bielsa he values that so much, its the reason Dallas gets games. Its a shame because Brown could be a difference maker but the Brown deal was daft from the start and is fast becoming the most pointless signing for ages and a total waste of money.

Very nervous about Millwall now, Berardi or Phillips vs that side in the air is a total mismatch and unfortunately Cooper isnt a great deal better in that respect, Kiko would have been a great help but now we need to hope some of Kiko's confidence has rubbed off on BPF. Kiko has had some dodgy moments but one thing he isnt is indecisive and been largely impressed with his command of the box, hope he helps BPF in the next week or two.
Somebody needs to add up how many minutes Brown has played for the U23s. Bielsa always said that Brown needed to play 6 to 8 full matches. so that is 540 to 720 minutes of game time that MB wanted Brown to have. I think MB has out him on the bench so he feels like he is part of the first team set-up, so Brown can also see at first hand how the other players play. Against QPR I feel that MB threw him on as a gamble because we were 1-0 down, it was too early for Brown and his performance showed that but MB hoped for a moment of magic. Many fans clamouring for Brown to have been brought on when we were leading against Reading and WBA but I think MB sees things much differently and probably didn't want to risk Brown and he also wanted to get other squad members such as Dallas and Douglas up to speed too and for all the difference in talent can be argued Izzy Brown is not going to play left or right back if we have an injury there.

This 2 week break, combined with Brown getting 120 minutes under his belt (I believe only the 1st or 2nd match he has actually completed) has probably come at a great time for Brown as he should be a lot closer to full fitness and now has 2 weeks to really get integrated into the way MB plays as they will have 2 weeks of training. I can see Brown featuring more and don't buy into the MB doesn't like/rate him argument as MB wouldn't have rewarded him with a place on the bench if he wasn't in his plans.

As regards the Millwall game and the height issues just remember how many times this season people have been saying that they are nervous about playing a team because they lump it into the box but we have not struggled to defend in those games. If the opposition don't have the ball they can't lump it in. Sometimes people make reference to the Swansea match when we didn't have Cooper or PJ and say we wouldn't have conceded the headed goal to McBurnie but it really was a terrific header as he was twisting away from goal yet managed to get power and accuracy on the header - sometimes you just have to give the opposition player credit.
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Re: The Early #LUFC Breakfast Debate (Mon 18th Mar)

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Think part of the problem is Bielsa is very much a pecking order coach and it is very difficult for anyone to force his way through that. Fact remains Brown has been match fit according to the medical department for nearly 3 months, Rob Price said back in January he was match fit from a medical point of view but the manager "wanted him to show more in games". So I'm not convinced its a just a match fitness problem i dont think Bielsa has been impressed by Brown, Phil Hay has said that as well.

Maybe he doesnt give his all in training, maybe the analysis things they are attached to show something Bielsa doesnt like, i dont know. I think Bielsa insists on the u23 games for 2 reasons, fitness obviously but also to see if Brown impresses him. When we signed him it was an odd one obviously because he wasnt fit and we are down to single figures now match wise, i bet he has cost us a few hundred grand in medical bills and wages now. But from reading about him it didnt seem hard work and graft was part of his make up, a bit of a luxury player, that isnt Bielsa's style, we saw it with Saiz, if you dont give your all you will be a bit part player. I've also read Brown is a bit arrogant, wouldn't be surprised by that given he has spent time in the Chelsea bubble, that as well wont endear himself to Bielsa.

I hope he comes good because on his day he is a game changer, just not entirely sure we will ever see him make a meaningful contribution.

Tbf on aerial issues the stats dont lie, our set piece record highlights that. Lee Gregory at The Den gave us real problems with his aerial threat, as did McBurnie, Jutkiewicz, Smith for Rotherham, we have struggled this season with the bigger target men strikers. Its not a surprise when you consider most of them are 6ft2 plus and aside from Jansson we have nobody that height at the back. Worry about Berardi vs Gregory and Morison, he is a warrior but he is poor in the air losing many more aerial battles then he wins, one of the worst cbs in the league statistically which isnt a surpise. They will get chances to get the ball in the box, without Kiko and Jansson i dont think we will cope. Dont forget they hit the post with a header from a cross 1st game, they scored after a long throw, won the flick on scored the 2nd ball, that was with Jansson, without him they will win a heck of a lot.more.
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Re: The Early #LUFC Breakfast Debate (Mon 18th Mar)

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PJ isn't particularly good in the air when actually competing against someone. He is good when no one is around and when he is able to run and attack the ball, excellent in the zonal system that Monk used when he didn't have to mark but could just attack the ball.

RE Brown there is a huge difference between being fit from a medical point of view and being fit to play championship football. I would be fit from a medical point of view but would be blowing out of my ar$e within 5 minutes if I was playing championship football. Brown could probably get by in some other teams but this team relies on the whole team pressing the opposition and Brown likely hasn't been fit enough to do that - constantly moving, consistently having to change direction.
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Re: The Early #LUFC Breakfast Debate (Mon 18th Mar)

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weasel wrote: Tue Mar 19, 2019 1:30 pm PJ isn't particularly good in the air when actually competing against someone. He is good when no one is around and when he is able to run and attack the ball, excellent in the zonal system that Monk used when he didn't have to mark but could just attack the ball.

RE Brown there is a huge difference between being fit from a medical point of view and being fit to play championship football. I would be fit from a medical point of view but would be blowing out of my ar$e within 5 minutes if I was playing championship football. Brown could probably get by in some other teams but this team relies on the whole team pressing the opposition and Brown likely hasn't been fit enough to do that - constantly moving, consistently having to change direction.
Perhaps but he is certainty better then either of the men who will replace him and with BPF being extremely poor in the air i can forsee real issues.

Know that but pressing isnt his game and i think he knows that which is why he was like a bull in a china shop for the few minutes he was on, trying to make a point. Technically i am sure he is ready but physically, i doubt it and doubt he will ever be, some players havent that in them, sone players cant do it, some won't, the is an air of arrogance about Brown, fully expecting him to make very little impact if any.
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Re: The Early #LUFC Breakfast Debate (Mon 18th Mar)

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mothbanquet wrote: Mon Mar 18, 2019 1:27 pm Afternoon all. Time's short so I'll make these quick (for me).

Leeds dominated large parts of the game, 70% possession and 17 shots at goal prove this; however over 90 minutes Leeds could not muster a single shot on target. Bearing this in mind should our 8m forward line of Bamford and Roberts have done better?

Story of our season, words I've repeated countless times this weekend. Not clinical enough, silly mistakes, missed opportunity, yadda yadda yadda.

We've also been saying repeatedly that these players who finished 14th last season have improved so much as to be unrecognisable. So when we take these factors together and look at the expectations/quality of the Blunts and Norwich - let's face it, neither are Wolves/Newcastle of seasons past - what I'm seeing is a hell of a lot of good luck on their part and bad luck on ours. I think I can speak for every Leeds fan when I say this is what we're used to.

But one thing we're not used to is bouncing back quickly after bad results and that's what this team is capable of doing. Blunts have Bristol and Norwich have Boro after the break. It's a perfect opportunity for both teams to drop points and perhaps even start a blip, something both our opponents are due.

It was as I recieved a ribbing from my Sheffield-supporting mate that I realised this loss didn't hurt as much as I'd feared it would, and I felt a fair bit of confidence when I smiled and told him we'd see who's laughing at the end of the season. A point is nothing when there are 2 or 3 games left to play. With 8 games, it's less than nothing.
Agreed. According to the blunts fans on Twitter they're already promoted and their goalkeeper was celebrating like they won the league. I think this will fire up Bielsa and the players for the next 8 games. One point is nothing when there's 24 to play for.

Their luck is due to run out soon and we're due some for a change.
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Re: The Early #LUFC Breakfast Debate (Mon 18th Mar)

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SG90 wrote: Tue Mar 19, 2019 3:09 pm Agreed. According to the blunts fans on Twitter they're already promoted and their goalkeeper was celebrating like they won the league. I think this will fire up Bielsa and the players for the next 8 games. One point is nothing when there's 24 to play for.

Their luck is due to run out soon and we're due some for a change.
As perhaps happened to our players, they might believe exactly that; they're already up and it's going to be easy street. The more I think about it, the more confident I am that the home stretch will be harder for them than us psychologically. Far more exhausting being the hunted than the hunter!
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Re: The Early #LUFC Breakfast Debate (Mon 18th Mar)

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I must admit to being a bit worried with the PJ stuff prior to the match, biggest game etc, and was worried that we might have thought it was job done if we'd beat Sheff Utd and then have a Monkesque slump. We win our next match and they lose and it is back to how it was before the Sheff U game but with 2 less matches to go until the season ends.
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Re: The Early #LUFC Breakfast Debate (Mon 18th Mar)

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weasel wrote: Tue Mar 19, 2019 3:35 pm I must admit to being a bit worried with the PJ stuff prior to the match, biggest game etc, and was worried that we might have thought it was job done if we'd beat Sheff Utd and then have a Monkesque slump. We win our next match and they lose and it is back to how it was before the Sheff U game but with 2 less matches to go until the season ends.
Yeah, I think the hype was very difficult to escape and I for one embraced it gladly as a fan. It was just one of those times where the sense of occasion didn't reflect reality but to be fair, a lot of fans were saying that from the start. If Pontus and the lads took all that too seriously and let the mood get to them then yes, they deserved to be brought back down to earth. Hopefully it'll give them focus and a hard won lesson to take into the home stretch.

Funny thing is, if we win our next game and SU draw we'll be back in front. Bristol aren't slouches and they'll be fighting for that playoff spot with everything they've got, so anything's possible.
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