Oh good you aren't offended - just like the majority of 'black' people who weren't offended either.
John Motson gaffe?
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- weasel
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Re: John Motson gaffe?
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- Youth Team
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Re: John Motson gaffe?
I agree. In the US the term “Big Black” was used interchangeably with “Big Black Buck” by slave traders, plantation owners, and overseers. In the 1950s in Selma, Alabama, the bigots were still using it as I found out when they tried to beat me up for sitting in the back of the school bus with my friend who legally couldn’t sit in the front.SaraM wrote: ↑Wed Feb 20, 2019 9:27 am I think this whole 'being offended' thing is generally misunderstood. The context here is a sport in which black players are still subjected to racist chanting and abuse. For Motson to single out the player by the colour of his skin is to highlight his race as a difference, which in said context is unhelpful to say the least. I'm sure Motson was not intending to be racist, and no, the word black is not itself offensive, but if we want to move beyond a situation where players are racially abused then we need to be proactive in thinking about the way we describe people.
The comparison to the use of the word white, or even viking, to describe someone doesn't stand up, because white players do not get racially abused for being white. It isn't a level playing field, so you can't apply the same standards to both if you want things to change. When white people say, I don't see the problem, what are you getting offended about, they are not speaking from a context of having to live with racism.
I'm white, I was brought up in the 60s and 70s. Everyone I knew routinely used racist language, at home and at school. Most of us didn't mean any harm by it, and wouldn't abuse anyone to their face, but it betrayed an unconscious assumption about white people being, if not superior, then at least the norm in this country. Again, the historical context is colonialism, where the supposed superiority of the white race and white culture was used as a justification for oppression, exploitation and slavery.
Sorry to go on at length, but I think it's an important issue, and it's difficult to explain the problem of racism to people who don't see it because haven't experienced it.
- weasel
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Re: John Motson gaffe?
In those terms it is offensive however the difference is that Motson didn't use it in a derogatory or offensive way. Just the same as the Black Awards is not handing out awards to insult the recipients.
- The Subhuman
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Re: John Motson gaffe?
ahh the MOBO awards ....
"Never debate an idiot, they'll only drag you down to their level and they have the advantage of experience"
Re: John Motson gaffe?
No one's saying he did; in fact, I expressly said he didn't, so I'm not sure why you keep banging on about this. It's still an inappropriate comment to have made in the context of a sporting environment where racial abuse occurs.
Re: John Motson gaffe?
Well yeah, that's my point.
Re: John Motson gaffe?
Haha I do! Just thought it was funny taking the statement out of context a bit!
As faaip said I don't think either side are wrong. I don't expect anyone to be offended by the statement and he obviously didn't mean harm by it, but it's just not really the right thing to say in this day and age!
Re: John Motson gaffe?
And that's the bit I don't get.
I don't know the man and we don't really know if he is a FC or not.
But we do know he is (if I can say it) black.
From a white man's point of view I would be much more upset being called a FC than being identified as white.
Plus I do see that the Terry/Ferdinand example is not the same as the John Motson example. Terry was insulting Ferdinand, even excluding the B reference. John Motson was actually trying to praise the Millwall player, no malice or disrespect intended.
Re: John Motson gaffe?
But that's exactly it. You, as a white man, are unlikely to have ever experienced discrimination based on your ethnicity. By referring to Ferdinand's skin colour, Terry made it a racial issue.BobHirst wrote: ↑Fri Feb 22, 2019 2:58 am And that's the bit I don't get.
I don't know the man and we don't really know if he is a FC or not.
But we do know he is (if I can say it) black.
From a white man's point of view I would be much more upset being called a FC than being identified as white.
Plus I do see that the Terry/Ferdinand example is not the same as the John Motson example. Terry was insulting Ferdinand, even excluding the B reference. John Motson was actually trying to praise the Millwall player, no malice or disrespect intended.
And again, if he's taken offence/thought it was racist then that's the important thing, not the opinion of a bunch of people on a forum.
With regards to people's comments about 'the majority of black people wouldn't be offended' - again, if some were then that's all there is to it?
- lufc1304
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Re: John Motson gaffe?
Genghers makes the salient point here. If you're white, you are not in a position to say what would or wouldn't be offensive to an ethnic minority. John Terry is a racist, he has form for this, even before the Ferdinand incident. I don't believe John Motson is (though, of course, he could be), but by adding that extra, and wholly unnecessary, adjective into his description of the Millwall player, he sailed himself into dangerous waters. As someone pointed out earlier in this thread, he's unlikely to have described Harry Kane as a "lethal white striker".
"When the going gets weird, the weird get professional!" Hunter S Thompson