A Matter of Perspective: Expectations Now and Then

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A Matter of Perspective: Expectations Now and Then

Post by mothbanquet »

There was a point, just after we lost that first game just after new year, where I had to take a step back and reflect. After going on quite an unbelieveable run over the festive period, we lost. It happens. Then we lost again. A bit of a downer but everyone else was dropping points, so not as bad as it could've been. What was remarkable for me was the sudden and overwhelming onset of doom and gloom from some quarters.

Now, we all know our fair share of pessimists and Lord knows we understand that sentiment. It comes with the Leeds Utd territory. What I was quite amazed by was how this season has turned into a 'do or die' campaign. Some folk are saying that if we don't achieve promotion this season, we can write it off forever.

I put this down to hyperbole then and I still do now, but I thought to myself, "At what point did we go from hoping for the playoffs - most of us I think you'll agree would've bitten off the proverbial hand for that last summer - to demanding automatic promotion?" I mean, what's different?

I would never in my wildest dreams have expected we'd be top with 18 games to go, but we're here and I'm questioning the rationale behind some who seem to under the impression that we should be doing a Wolves by now.

This was just based on the standard melodrama that is social media, so don't think I'm generalising here, but I am curious to hear the answers to this question:

What expectations did you have at the start of the season and how have they changed - if they have? Do you find it difficult to keep those former expectations in perspective as the season wears on?
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Re: A Matter of Perspective: Expectations Now and Then

Post by Dalton »

I think most of us thought with the same team largely that play off would be good ESPECIALLY as we have only managed it once in 15.
Then we were top and stayed in the top 3 for a bit and people start thinking.
Then comes 7 wins in a row and the constant topsy turvey results of the Championship which then gets fans dreaming and with full houses, the prospect of great promotion money and the Jan transfer window, many fans are saying "we cant possibly blow this now can we??"
So, yes, enjoying the ride, but every game that goes by STILL being in the top 2 gets fans even more nervous mainly due to the fact we ALWAYS tend to slip away

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Re: A Matter of Perspective: Expectations Now and Then

Post by The Subhuman »

Expectations were for a top 10 finish after a sticky start

Expectations now are a top 6 finish as anything can happen but the deeper we go without losing form (and we haven't yet to be fair) the higher that will go. You always have to finish strong in these leagues irrespective of play off or auto aspirations. So a shortish period of water treading while we integrate the new player/s and get those injured fit again would not worry me unduly. We probably need to see the Derbygate affair die down a bit too or just dealt with promptly by the EFL too.

Finish strong last 10 to 12 games.
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Re: A Matter of Perspective: Expectations Now and Then

Post by Cjay »

Expected playoffs start of the season same as every season.

If you expect to finish outside of them then you expect to be mediocre imo and thats not an achievement.

Dont want a club that aims to be mediocre which is what worries me about being in the Prem tbh, you should always aim to achieve something decent.

With us being top at xmas i now expect promotion as that is what has happened last 9 10 11 years something like that.

If we dont go up then we will lose key players and that vicious cycle resets.

Ffp resets, big spending clubs will spend fortunes again and promotion becomes even harder as more parachute payment backed clubs come down.

There is no excuse for not getting promoted now.

If we dont then something has gone very wrong.
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Re: A Matter of Perspective: Expectations Now and Then

Post by weasel »

At the start of the season I would have been delighted with a play-off spot. I felt the team was certainly better than Paul Heckingbottom kept telling us it was, but equally I didn't feel it was as good as it had shown at times under Thomas Christiansen. The start we had last season gave fans false hope and we were deluded into thinking we had a better side than we had.

Bielsa was the great unknown. We brought him in and were linked with several signings but only made 2 of any note. As such midtable loomed but you always have to have optimism and if we could find a bit more consistency (based on the best of the TC reign) then maybe we could threaten the play-offs. However most fans predicted us to lose to Stoke in the first game of the season.

We beat Stoke then dismantle Derby and suddenly we were the bookies favourites to win the league but really it is still the nucleus of the team that fell apart last season. Bielsa has worked magic with this squad with his strange methods yet still fans question his decisions. It is his unorthodoxness that makes things work. How many coaches go all out attack when 1-0 down and having a man disadvantage? Very few - most try to stay in the game and hope to nick an equaliser. Instead we go all out attack and completely outplay a team with more players than us. Okay at 2-1 up maybe he should have brought a defender on but there is no guarantee that would have worked as it would have given Forest the initiative. Bielsa doesn't do settling, he wanted a third goal, he wanted to kill off the game rather than cling on for half an hour. Who amongst us though wasn't amazed at how well we played with 10 men against Forest until we went 2-1 up? That was amazing to watch.

So okay we have had a dip but only results wise. Even match this season we have competed, no team has had an easy win against us even WBA who okay ran out 4-1 winners but until the 2nd goal went in we were in the match and the second goal only happened because of a keeper error. Even then at 4-0 down this team kept playing and scored the last goal, it may have been in vain but they were still going strong in the 95th minute same as last week when losing 2-1 we scored at the depth when the match was dead. This team doesn't give up and whilst we have had a dip results wise the stats bear out that we have still been creating more chances than the opposition and having more possession, so the results are a blip in the statistics but the statistics will suggest we should win more than we lose if we keep producing those statistics.

I don't fear the future if we don't go up. No longer are we selling players just for the money, we are selling to re-invest. We sold Vieira to buy Bamford and if we sell Clarke, Pontus, Phillips etc then the board has shown that they will re-invest the money and we can sell to strengthen especially with Bielsa in charge and his ability to get more out of players than other coaches have. Which young players wouldn't want to come to Leeds now? Would Jozefzoon, given the opportunity to pick again, choose to go to Derby where he has stagnated instead of choosing to go to Leeds where he would likely have improved and flourished under Bielsa? The future for me is rosy whether we go up or not.
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Re: A Matter of Perspective: Expectations Now and Then

Post by wilsdenwhite »

I think we are going to get promoted this season. Be it through automatic promotion or through the playoffs I really believe this is our year. There have been no stand out teams this time around in the Championship. No team is running away with it and I think it will remain pretty tight until the final weeks of April. To be completely honest I'm just enjoying this season so much and it's been made all the more enjoyable because of what we have had to endure since relegation from the top flight. For me promotion is not the be all and end all this season. That the club is finally moving in the right direction and most importantly is been run properly is equally as important as just about anything else come what may, given what we have been through. That's not to say I don't crave promotion this season. I feel as a club we are ready for it now.

Clubs can never achieve success while been run like we have been run for the last 15 years. It's been incredibly painful to watch. From Bates to Cellino it's been one embarrassment after another. Every day you'd check in to see what's happening, especially during Cellino's tenure and just bury your head in your hands, just cringing at what that clown was doing to this club. As soon as Radz came on the scene I honestly thought here we go again but as soon as he took full control he has proved to be nothing but a breath of fresh air. Everything he has done off the pitch has earned him a enormous amount of respect with me with regards to what been Leeds United is all about. He never waltzed in saying this and that he just quietly went about his business. He has obviously worked tirelessly for his club and I'm sure I'm not alone in been really appreciative of his efforts. Then he goes and appoints MB. For those of us who knew about MB before and had read about him and his methods and his philosophy in years past, well for me the appointment felt like the defining moment on the road back to the top flight. We've got an owner who knows what he is doing. He means business and he brought MB in to achieve his aim. At least the first part of it anyway.

I expected the play offs as a minimum before the first ball had been kicked but I never expected to see the majority of players from last season start this season the way they have done. That's Bielsa. That's what Radz paid for. I felt as December progressed that all January was ever going to be about as far as gaining promotion is concerned is getting to us find the final pieces of the promotion puzzle and that means signing the right players who can fit in and get us over the line. At least we know any players who signs for us knows exactly of what is expected of them. This team still has room for improvement and when MB says he only wants players who can improve the team, your confident in knowing what he means.

As far as the first half of the season goes, the way we have played has gone above and beyond most of our expectations. Stand out moments for me were the games against Derby, the win at Sheff Utd and the win at Villa. I'd seriously argue against the point that many fans always talk about and that is about us "slipping away". It's irrelevant really. Slipping away from what? When was the last time we were in the top 2 in any league in late January and "slipped away". Sure we have slipped away from the play off spots and finished up mid table in seasons past but surely that cannot be compared to what we are doing this season. To think about it like that and compare it with what happened then and start thinking like that cannot be good for you at all.

So yeh I think we will have enough to get promotion by the end of deadline day even if that means only 1 more signing. It's been a great season thus far and I think there will be plenty more moments like the last minute winner at Villa. Norwich, West Brom, Sheffield U and Middlesbrough all have good managers and some real quality players but none of them have shown they are above unbeatable. To be honest I think the player who can do most to help our cause, i mean really help us reach our goal has been with us all along and that's Patrick Bamford. I just feel it's setting itself up nicely for him. Can't be anything but pleased with the new keeper who should be more than capable of holding his own here. Izzy Brown is a very good player now he needs to show us that on the pitch. All i know is if we get promoted this season with the squad we have and with now most of the teams in this league seemingly pissed off with us about spygate (but when do any of them ever like us) then it will be one hell of an achievement for Radz, Bielsa and all the squad and one the fans will never forget.

At long last, we're going places.
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Re: A Matter of Perspective: Expectations Now and Then

Post by Chilli D »

Well, I predicted we would finish 5th on the championship table prediction competition on here so at the moment they are exceeding my expectations.
I honestly don't think there is a better side than us in the division and our records holds up against all the challengers.
Yes, we have had off days, but all teams do, but when we're good we are very good. Just ask Derby, Norwich or Villa.
I'm with Wilsdenwhite....this is our year.
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Re: A Matter of Perspective: Expectations Now and Then

Post by gessa »

I was hoping we'd get the right manager and he would be backed with a couple of better quality players, we could improve on last seadon and look as though with a few more additions, January and then again in the summer, we could make a serious challenge for the play offs at least. We are well ahead of what I thought possible and that is all down to Bielsa and the players buying into his ways and the hard work they've obviously put in.
Would be a major disappointment now not to make the play offs at least, even though we're ahead of where I thought we'd be.
I know it's Leeds and we always expect things to go pear shaped, as they often have but like others I do feel this is the year, we just don't want anymore injuries.
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Re: A Matter of Perspective: Expectations Now and Then

Post by 1964white »

wilsdenwhite wrote: Tue Jan 22, 2019 5:50 pm I think we are going to get promoted this season. Be it through automatic promotion or through the playoffs I really believe this is our year. There have been no stand out teams this time around in the Championship. No team is running away with it and I think it will remain pretty tight until the final weeks of April. To be completely honest I'm just enjoying this season so much and it's been made all the more enjoyable because of what we have had to endure since relegation from the top flight. For me promotion is not the be all and end all this season. That the club is finally moving in the right direction and most importantly is been run properly is equally as important as just about anything else come what may, given what we have been through. That's not to say I don't crave promotion this season. I feel as a club we are ready for it now.

Clubs can never achieve success while been run like we have been run for the last 15 years. It's been incredibly painful to watch. From Bates to Cellino it's been one embarrassment after another. Every day you'd check in to see what's happening, especially during Cellino's tenure and just bury your head in your hands, just cringing at what that clown was doing to this club. As soon as Radz came on the scene I honestly thought here we go again but as soon as he took full control he has proved to be nothing but a breath of fresh air. Everything he has done off the pitch has earned him a enormous amount of respect with me with regards to what been Leeds United is all about. He never waltzed in saying this and that he just quietly went about his business. He has obviously worked tirelessly for his club and I'm sure I'm not alone in been really appreciative of his efforts. Then he goes and appoints MB. For those of us who knew about MB before and had read about him and his methods and his philosophy in years past, well for me the appointment felt like the defining moment on the road back to the top flight. We've got an owner who knows what he is doing. He means business and he brought MB in to achieve his aim. At least the first part of it anyway.

I expected the play offs as a minimum before the first ball had been kicked but I never expected to see the majority of players from last season start this season the way they have done. That's Bielsa. That's what Radz paid for. I felt as December progressed that all January was ever going to be about as far as gaining promotion is concerned is getting to us find the final pieces of the promotion puzzle and that means signing the right players who can fit in and get us over the line. At least we know any players who signs for us knows exactly of what is expected of them. This team still has room for improvement and when MB says he only wants players who can improve the team, your confident in knowing what he means.

As far as the first half of the season goes, the way we have played has gone above and beyond most of our expectations. Stand out moments for me were the games against Derby, the win at Sheff Utd and the win at Villa. I'd seriously argue against the point that many fans always talk about and that is about us "slipping away". It's irrelevant really. Slipping away from what? When was the last time we were in the top 2 in any league in late January and "slipped away". Sure we have slipped away from the play off spots and finished up mid table in seasons past but surely that cannot be compared to what we are doing this season. To think about it like that and compare it with what happened then and start thinking like that cannot be good for you at all.

So yeh I think we will have enough to get promotion by the end of deadline day even if that means only 1 more signing. It's been a great season thus far and I think there will be plenty more moments like the last minute winner at Villa. Norwich, West Brom, Sheffield U and Middlesbrough all have good managers and some real quality players but none of them have shown they are above unbeatable. To be honest I think the player who can do most to help our cause, i mean really help us reach our goal has been with us all along and that's Patrick Bamford. I just feel it's setting itself up nicely for him. Can't be anything but pleased with the new keeper who should be more than capable of holding his own here. Izzy Brown is a very good player now he needs to show us that on the pitch. All i know is if we get promoted this season with the squad we have and with now most of the teams in this league seemingly pissed off with us about spygate (but when do any of them ever like us) then it will be one hell of an achievement for Radz, Bielsa and all the squad and one the fans will never forget.

At long last, we're going places.
Great first post :tup:

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Re: A Matter of Perspective: Expectations Now and Then

Post by 1964white »

Predicted us to finish 3rd prior to the start of the season

Reasons

The essential appointment of Bielsa & his reputation at the highest level.
Signing of Douglas from Wolves.
Thought we'd make at least two more quality signings during August as Radz had hinted.
We got one in Bamford whose fitness was always questionable.
The signings of Roberts & the three loanees looked promising,

On the pitch

Couldn't believe the huge improvement of the same players that finished 13th in 2017/18.
Witnessed the best football from a Leeds team since our premiership years.

Position in the table

Amazed we'd be top of the championship at Christmas time, the table doesn't lie.

Thoughts

We have the best coach in the championship.
Still feel we are the best team in the league.

Concerns

Lack of depth in our squad, square pegs in round holes comes to mind
Not enough quality players outside our best X1
Too many injury prone players.
No sign of any quality outfield players joining Leeds in the January window.
Our current form.

Expectations

Would be extremely disappointed if we finished outside the top two bearing in mind the position we find ourselves in now.
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Re: A Matter of Perspective: Expectations Now and Then

Post by Muppet the Cat »

Chilli D wrote: Tue Jan 22, 2019 6:57 pm Well, I predicted we would finish 5th on the championship table prediction competition on here so at the moment they are exceeding my expectations.
I honestly don't think there is a better side than us in the division and our records holds up against all the challengers.
Yes, we have had off days, but all teams do, but when we're good we are very good. Just ask Derby, Norwich or Villa.
I'm with Wilsdenwhite....this is our year.
Of those who entered a prediction in the end of season final table comp the predicted finishing positions for us was
1st (x2), 3rd (x3), 5th, 6th (the most common pick with 5), 11th (x2), 12th and 13th....................so other than the Nostradamus visionaries EB and BB :bear: no-one can say we'e not exceeding expectations at this point in time.

Another thing (which someone pointed out to me at work today) which suggests that the stars may be aligning towards promotion is that when Liverpool last won Div 1 (as was) in 1989/90, the winners and Champions of Div 2 were Leeds (with Sheff Utd going up as runners-up). Sorry Pep, but I'm backing Jurgen this season !! :) :moggy:
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Re: A Matter of Perspective: Expectations Now and Then

Post by The Subhuman »

The last time that history repeated itself like that was probably never ....I don't do Omens.
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Re: A Matter of Perspective: Expectations Now and Then

Post by Mick Jones shoulder »

Expected mid table, now play offs at least.
As much as I would like promotion watching a a side possibly struggle in the Premier league doesn't sound like much fun.

This season has been a breath of fresh air, as I have said previously the best footballing side since the 70's and that includes the 91/92 side and O'leary's side. Many will disagree no doubt.
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Re: A Matter of Perspective: Expectations Now and Then

Post by weasel »

I would say that the style of football they have continually tried to play has been the best since the 70s. The O'Leary and Wilko sides both have some outstanding matches but if we get it right with Bielsa and we improve the playing staff (be it coaching or signings) so we become more consistent then it really will be a joy to watch.
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Re: A Matter of Perspective: Expectations Now and Then

Post by 1964white »

Mick Jones shoulder wrote: Wed Jan 23, 2019 9:37 am Expected mid table, now play offs at least.
As much as I would like promotion watching a a side possibly struggle in the Premier league doesn't sound like much fun

This season has been a breath of fresh air, as I have said previously the best footballing side since the 70's and that includes the 91/92 side and O'leary's side. Many will disagree no doubt.
That all depends on whoever owns our club showing ambition & investing in the squad should we reach the prem, if we attempted to do things on the cheap then we probably would struggle
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Re: A Matter of Perspective: Expectations Now and Then

Post by weasel »

Not just the level of investment but the right recruitment too. Fulham have spent big but aren't doing so well. Having Bielsa in my opinion gives us a much better chance of staying up, if we get promoted, given how he has improved players without the need to spend fortunes.
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Re: A Matter of Perspective: Expectations Now and Then

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weasel wrote: Wed Jan 23, 2019 11:28 am Not just the level of investment but the right recruitment too. Fulham have spent big but aren't doing so well. Having Bielsa in my opinion gives us a much better chance of staying up, if we get promoted, given how he has improved players without the need to spend fortunes.
MB would probably like to do it with most of the current squad, with maybe an addition or two. I think it'll be at least a year too early for our exceptional kids and just throwing millions of pounds around won't get it done. I'd expect relegation next if we get promoted this season but that's a massive financial gain.
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Re: A Matter of Perspective: Expectations Now and Then

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1964white wrote: Wed Jan 23, 2019 10:54 am That all depends on whoever owns our club showing ambition & investing in the squad should we reach the prem, if we attempted to do things on the cheap then we probably would struggle
I genuinely understand people wanting Radz to spend, I'm one, with a caveat that we don't end up like the Ridsdale debacle. I think maybe one addition with Brown coming In.
When at Huddersfield he looked very good and there in no reason he can't be the same player for us.. I know one or two on here watch the U23 and think he is off the pace but don't you find better players step up to the plate when it's necessary..
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Re: A Matter of Perspective: Expectations Now and Then

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Mick Jones shoulder wrote: Wed Jan 23, 2019 4:33 pm I genuinely understand people wanting Radz to spend, I'm one, with a caveat that we don't end up like the Ridsdale debate. I think maybe one addition with Brown coming In.
When at Huddersfield he looked very good and there in no reason he can't be the same player for us.. I know one or two on here watch the U23 and think he is off the pace but don't you find better players step up to the plate when it's necessary..
Right now Brown's fitness is questionable again

Imagine having new quality players ready to start :)
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Re: A Matter of Perspective: Expectations Now and Then

Post by 1964white »

faaip wrote: Wed Jan 23, 2019 12:39 pm MB would probably like to do it with most of the current squad, with maybe an addition or two. I think it'll be at least a year too early for our exceptional kids and just throwing millions of pounds around won't get it done. I'd expect relegation next if we get promoted this season but that's a massive financial gain.
We won't hold to our exceptional kids or our best players if we don't go up.

All promoted teams build on their squad once they are in the premiership, it's a matter of taking your opportunity when possible, we've never had a better chance & we may not get another !
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