Spying Accusation - EFL Verdict

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danhirons
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Re: Spying Accusation - EFL Verdict

Post by danhirons » Tue Feb 19, 2019 7:11 am

weasel wrote:
Mon Feb 18, 2019 11:01 pm
A ridiculous fine which is appalling giving the much lower fines for previous examples that are far worse, bugging changing rooms, getting teamsheet information from someone at the opposition club etc. A ridiculous finding given no rule was broken and the only rule even close to applying to the incidents is so hopelessy vague it could, as Cjay points out, apply to just about anything. But hey ho it is Leeds so they have made an example of us.

Definitely looks like their was negotiation between the EFL and Leeds so that we would accept a fine so that the EFL didn't look weak and incompetent, a big shout out to Shaun Harvey at this point, but a fine that we were content to accept simply to draw an end to proceedings.

I am sure all the clubs that have security around their training pitches will now simply do away with it and terminate the employment of their security officials as obviously it isn't needed and apart from if they'd played Leeds this season would have never been needed anyway. I am sure Derby are feeling foolish having recently wasted money to make it harder for people to see their pitch from the public road as obviously no other club or even any member of the public would even look that way when on the road.
Can you give some examples?

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Re: Spying Accusation - EFL Verdict

Post by weasel » Tue Feb 19, 2019 7:57 am

Crystal Palace received a £25,000 fine from the Premier League in 2014 following allegations that Cardiff City’s team sheet was leaked to them ahead of a match between the sides.

So the Premier League, in fining Crystal Palace (managed by Warnock at the time I believe), must have believed and had some evidence that the team sheet was linked. If there had been no evidence then surely they wouldn't have been able to fine them?

For me it is a far worse offence as it has involved a Cardiff employee, possibly a player, giving the opposition information. This is far worse to me than someone observing a team (or teams) training from a public place (no actual offence) or trying to get opinion from opposition fans (if the rumours about a Leeds employee mingling in pubs with opposition fans prior to games is to be believed). Yet the fine was 1/8th of what Leeds got.

There was also the case, can't remember the teams involved, where bugging has gone on in opposition changing rooms and cases where managers (think it was Warnock again) sent someone to stand outside the opposition changing room at half time to eavesdrop.
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Re: Spying Accusation - EFL Verdict

Post by Blackadder » Tue Feb 19, 2019 8:43 am

Morning all

Gotta say that if Spygate finally highlighted to the EFL Shaun Harvey’s blind and biased hatred of us then the 200k fine was the best money we ever spent!

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Re: Spying Accusation - EFL Verdict

Post by danhirons » Tue Feb 19, 2019 10:08 am

weasel wrote:
Tue Feb 19, 2019 7:57 am
Crystal Palace received a £25,000 fine from the Premier League in 2014 following allegations that Cardiff City’s team sheet was leaked to them ahead of a match between the sides.

So the Premier League, in fining Crystal Palace (managed by Warnock at the time I believe), must have believed and had some evidence that the team sheet was linked. If there had been no evidence then surely they wouldn't have been able to fine them?

For me it is a far worse offence as it has involved a Cardiff employee, possibly a player, giving the opposition information. This is far worse to me than someone observing a team (or teams) training from a public place (no actual offence) or trying to get opinion from opposition fans (if the rumours about a Leeds employee mingling in pubs with opposition fans prior to games is to be believed). Yet the fine was 1/8th of what Leeds got.

There was also the case, can't remember the teams involved, where bugging has gone on in opposition changing rooms and cases where managers (think it was Warnock again) sent someone to stand outside the opposition changing room at half time to eavesdrop.

Not at all comparable as that's the premier league not efl. Also the premier league rules stipulated that the maximum fine for breaching that rule was 25k, so the authorities couldn't fine Palace anymore. So not a good example for me sorry.

The efl just don't want teams spying on other teams. They give us a slap on the wrist with this fine, big enough to deter the other clubs from doing it without punishing us really (200k is nothing in today's money)

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Re: Spying Accusation - EFL Verdict

Post by Chilli D » Tue Feb 19, 2019 11:00 am

danhirons wrote:
Tue Feb 19, 2019 10:08 am
Not at all comparable as that's the premier league not efl. Also the premier league rules stipulated that the maximum fine for breaching that rule was 25k, so the authorities couldn't fine Palace anymore. So not a good example for me sorry.

The efl just don't want teams spying on other teams. They give us a slap on the wrist with this fine, big enough to deter the other clubs from doing it without punishing us really (200k is nothing in today's money)
So let me get this straight.
Are you saying that the 200k fine is justified or we should be pleased that it's 200k because in your words it's "nothing in today's money"?

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Re: Spying Accusation - EFL Verdict

Post by YorkshireSquare » Tue Feb 19, 2019 11:04 am

I think we should just move on now.

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Re: Spying Accusation - EFL Verdict

Post by faaip » Tue Feb 19, 2019 11:14 am

No one thought of turning up to the Derby training ground with a note book and saying when questioned a manager from whatever club you can think of sent you to look around
GET IN THE BOAT AND ROW

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Re: Spying Accusation - EFL Verdict

Post by rab_rant » Tue Feb 19, 2019 11:43 am

Shawn 'arvey I polish your 'ead wif swarfiga and make farting noises wif my armpit in you general direction. You are a Ken Bates running DOG (DESPERATE OBSESSIVE GOBSHITE )and also a SERB (SELF ESTEEM ROCK BOTTOM ). You can not even do the maff. The fine should 'ave been 220,000 for the 11 clubs to get an equal share. Your IQ is less than your shoe size. You make all of us French look like Einstein. Go away from the Efl and never return. May your pantaloons be filled with obnoxious effluvium. Your father was a wood lice.

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Re: Spying Accusation - EFL Verdict

Post by danhirons » Tue Feb 19, 2019 12:12 pm

Chilli D wrote:
Tue Feb 19, 2019 11:00 am
So let me get this straight.
Are you saying that the 200k fine is justified or we should be pleased that it's 200k because in your words it's "nothing in today's money"?
I'm saying it's the most sensible outcome.

The fine is small, and sets a precedent for the efl to stop other clubs doing it. Although there's no specific rule they've decided it's against the code of morality or whatever, and so deserves a pecuniary punishment. I genuinely think this is a good outcome for the club and a sensible decision by the efl. The sooner we get rid of this "the efl are out to get us mentality" the better.

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Re: Spying Accusation - EFL Verdict

Post by danhirons » Tue Feb 19, 2019 12:12 pm

I can guarantee if it was derby spying on us we'd be outraged that it's only 200k fine!

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Re: Spying Accusation - EFL Verdict

Post by faaip » Tue Feb 19, 2019 12:27 pm

Wouldn't give a s**t tbh...
GET IN THE BOAT AND ROW

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Re: Spying Accusation - EFL Verdict

Post by weasel » Tue Feb 19, 2019 12:51 pm

danhirons wrote:
Tue Feb 19, 2019 10:08 am
Not at all comparable as that's the premier league not efl. Also the premier league rules stipulated that the maximum fine for breaching that rule was 25k, so the authorities couldn't fine Palace anymore. So not a good example for me sorry.

The efl just don't want teams spying on other teams. They give us a slap on the wrist with this fine, big enough to deter the other clubs from doing it without punishing us really (200k is nothing in today's money)
It is comparable because there was no specific rule in place as such you normally would try to look at a similar type of case/offence and hand out a similar punishment and then actually draw up specific rules where you could then increase the penalty as a deterrent - so you could fine Leeds a similar amount, such as the £25k, and draw up rules and actually set the punishment far higher.

The trouble I have with it is how flawed it all is. Forget that it is Leeds, that is irrelevant. If it was such a black and white case that 'spying' was such a terrible offence then it should have been in the rules. There are rules in place with set punishments that are far smaller so if it such a big deal then there should have been a rule in place.

Teams know that spying goes on. Otherwise why would the likes of Liverpool, Man U, City etc have training facilities where the public cannot get anywhere near the training pitches. As such if presumably the Premier League don't have a ruling then the Premier League is basically saying it is up to individual clubs to make their training pitches secret. So that would suggest that it would be okay for a premier league club to observe another club training if they didn't have security in place. As such is it then okay to spy if you are in a league where clubs have more money and should be able to afford proper training facilities away from prying eyes? You cannot then have one 'rule' for the rich and one for the poor. Derby have recently made their training facilities more secretive so are they now saying they expect other clubs to spy? If as a club you were so concerned with the opposition not seeing you train in the couple of days leading to a match then you can train indoors with complete secrecy, a lot of sports facilities hire out full size indoor pitches for less than £100 per hour so hardly out of any team's budget or even train at your own stadium and don't let anyone in. As it is your own stadium you can block off any parts where people might be able to peek in from outside. Basically put if you don't want someone to be able to see your training session then don't have a training pitch next to a public road, golf course etc etc.

The only good thing to come out of this is that the fine isn't ridiculously high. High in comparison to the ludicrously low fines handed out for other offences but in footballing terms it is low. Interestingly the £200k fine includes costs so the actual fine could be considerably lower, normally you'd hear it as £100k fine plus costs. For all we know the costs included may even include our own legal fees too making the fine even smaller (could even be the case that the fine is hardly anything as legal costs can be extremely high).

I am sure other teams have spied on us, not that they'd need to as MB regularly invites people to watch us train and I doubt he'd turn anyone away even if they turn up wearing the tracksuit of the club we were about to play. He knows spying goes on which is why he names his team early, he knows that the opposition will know his line-up well before the match whether he reveals it or not. Take the Kemar Roofe injury and it is hardly like we could have hidden that so that the opposition thought he might be playing.

Anyway at least it is over. I am sure the EFL wanted to punish us more harshly but this has been a compromise deal for them to punish us and save face as our solicitors would likely have told them any harsher punishment and we'd not have accepted it and with there been no rules in place the EFL wouldn't have had a leg to stand on if we took things further.
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Re: Spying Accusation - EFL Verdict

Post by SaraM » Tue Feb 19, 2019 4:22 pm


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