THE #LUFC BREAKFAST DEBATE (TUE 20TH NOVEMBER)

[1964white]

Bielsa has always insisted on having a small squad supplemented by youth players. He seemed happy with Cooper and PJ with Berardi, Shaugnessy and Ayling as back up. If all those got long term injuries then I am sure he would look at signing another centreback and it may well now be the case that he does in January - however you can't go into the season and have a squad that can cover mass injuries in 1 position. Is Huth, likely to be a better fit in our system than one of our U23s who has played this style of football all season?

Has Shaughnessy made the bench this season ?

The fact of the matter is we went into the season with only two CB's whom are commanding in the air, we've leaked goals all season from set-pieces as the rest of our squad gives us no aerial presence.
We needed one more big CB as cover in the summer & nothing was forthcoming. Take out either PJ or Coops & our problem in the air increases dramatically especially against a big unit, if we lose both we have a serious problem as was the case at Swansea when McBurnnie had the freedom of the park with no defender able to deal with his physical presence. The writing was on the wall in our very first game v Stoke, we were comfortable with their ground threat until they brought on Crouch, then the problem was there to seen as he won every ball in the air, fortunately we had done enough to win that game.

With our slim/inexperienced squad we have lost/drawn matches:

• Birmingham - keeper let in two soft shots

• Blackburn - Armstrong ran our rookie RB to death

• West Brom - keeper error/ran ragged down our right flank again/couldn't cope with their pace

• Swansea - no big CB to cope with McBurnnie, easy meat for their striker

[weasel]

Has Shaughnessy made the bench this season ?

The fact of the matter is we went into the season with only two CB's whom are commanding in the air, we've leaked goals all season from set-pieces as the rest of our squad gives us no aerial presence.
We needed one more big CB as cover in the summer & nothing was forthcoming. Take our either PJ or Coops & our problem in the air increases dramatically especially against a big unit, if we lose both we have a serious problem as was the case at Swansea when McBurnnie had the freedom of the park with no defender able to deal with his physical presence. The writing was on the wall in our very first game v Stoke, we were comfortable with their ground threat until they brought on Crouch, then the problem were there to seen as he won every ball in the air, fortunately we had done enough to win that game.

With our slim/inexperienced squad we have lost/drawn matches:

• Birmingham - keeper let in two soft shots

• Blackburn - Armstrong ran our rookie RB to death

• West Brom - keeper error/ran ragged down our right flank again/couldn't cope with their pace

• Swansea - no big CB to cope with McBurnnie, easy meat for their striker

Swansea was the one off as we were without Cooper and PJ and because of the late injury it meant we didn't have any other options available. As it was even then we lost out once to McBurnie in the air and it still took a really good header to score.

Like you say we have conceded plenty of goals from set pieces despite our 2 commanding centrebacks playing in those matches. Having a squad that isn't blessed with height would not change just by having another big centreback as you yourself have pointed out it has been from set pieces not open play that we have conceded. The only way having another big centreback would have helped would have been in all 3 started. The Crouch scenario is not something that teams could replicate every week as Crouch is over 2 metres tall and as such is 3 inches higher than PJ and 6 inches higher than Cooper (the gap between Crouch and PJ is bigger than the gap between Berardi and Cooper heightwise).

Fact is teams concede goals. With PJ and Cooper we conceded 4 v WBA. Ayling or Berardi would just have likely have been run ragged at right back in that game. Keeper errors are keeper errors, Green got slagged off before having a strong second half of the season.

Not saying we wouldn't have done better with better players or more options but that could be said for every position in the squad.

[1964white]

Swansea was the one off as we were without Cooper and PJ and because of the late injury it meant we didn't have any other options available. As it was even then we lost out once to McBurnie in the air and it still took a really good header to score.

Like you say we have conceded plenty of goals from set pieces despite our 2 commanding centrebacks playing in those matches. Having a squad that isn't blessed with height would not change just by having another big centreback as you yourself have pointed out it has been from set pieces not open play that we have conceded. The only way having another big centreback would have helped would have been in all 3 started. The Crouch scenario is not something that teams could replicate every week as Crouch is over 2 metres tall and as such is 3 inches higher than PJ and 6 inches higher than Cooper (the gap between Crouch and PJ is bigger than the gap between Berardi and Cooper heightwise).

Fact is teams concede goals. With PJ and Cooper we conceded 4 v WBA. Ayling or Berardi would just have likely have been run ragged at right back in that game. Keeper errors are keeper errors, Green got slagged off before having a strong second half of the season.

Not saying we wouldn't have done better with better players or more options but that could be said for every position in the squad.

We are missing Ayling big-time as we did last season contrary to what most folk on here think

We also missed Roofe & Hernandez when they were out for so many matches, the same will apply if we lose our best CB Pontus

Beyond our first thirteen outfield players when everyone is fit our back-up is weak

[Cjay]

Perhaps AR is hoping Sky pull out - he can then swoop in with a much lower offer. AR knows this market, he knows how much he could get selling TV rights for Leeds across the world and if Sky was to pull out then Leeds would be in a great position if we could sell our individual rights. It might even be better financially for Leeds to be in the championship with an individual deal rather than in the premiership under the blanket Sky/BT deals - that will get the conspiracy theorists going nuts.

Im under no illusions about Radz, we are a way to promote him as a businessman and a way for him to make money using us if possible, LUFC arent his priority, we are just another asset that he can use.

He isnt interested in the EFL rights as a package he just wants the right to use us individually as you say. And also as you say we could be potentially more valuable to him in this league then in the Prem.

He hasnt the finances to compete with Sky, Prem rights are worth £1.5billion a season, he cant outbid that or compete.

But maybe he can destabilise Sky enough to get them to leave the EFL rights and he can swoop in and then work out our own individual deal as im sure the other large clubs think to.

But its all hypothetical, the deals done, if the EFL back out then Sky could take legal action and then what happens?

I understand why some clubs are upset (purely for selfish reasons) but they left it to late. Nobody else seemed interested its reported that DAZN and BT were asked and they just said no, the rebel owners tried to entice others and it didnt happen.

Again Radz himself he probably couldn't finance a better deal then Sky.

I do think we would be much better off selling our own rights individually and support Radz in that.

But he and the other Owners had time to do something about it and they couldn't, so i dont see what meeting after the event will achieve?

The EFL cant pull out Shirley or Sky will sue them. If we kick up a fuss like Cellino did then we will be punished, fined, maybe even points deductions.

[Cjay]

We lack height, we recruited poorly imo and thats partially down to Bielsa.

Ayling is a key player in this setup because of his willingness to get forward and his energy. But as a defender he is crap, his passing is poor, he is often a headless chicken in forward positions, but his energy is key.

There seems to be a misconception that Cooper is a good aerial defender, hes not.

Liam Cooper is actually top 10 for aerial duels faced this season for cbs, he is 4th most, but out of the top 10 he is 9th for duels won, 62%. Tom Lees who was never particularly good in the air is 5th for duels faced, even he has a higher win percentage.

We rely far to much on Pontus Jansson its ridiculous. We desperately needed a quality cb imo to help Jansson and we desperately needed more height in the summer imo.

Add to that BPF being awful in the air we were always going to struggle from set pieces.

Imo Bielsa is largely to blame, he is admirable for his loyalty but we needed more quality additions in key areas in the summer.

Cb especially, and the club wanted a cb, Bielsa didnt, so the situation we are in in that respect is his fault.

[weasel]

We lack height, we recruited poorly imo and thats partially down to Bielsa.
I don't think it is just a height thing I feel we lack players who are good in the air. You can have small players that are good in the air but we don't have that either and some of our taller players, such as Klich, are not great in the air when it comes to contesting a ball.

Ayling is a key player in this setup because of his willingness to get forward and his energy. But as a defender he is crap, his passing is poor, he is often a headless chicken in forward positions, but his energy is key. Would agree 100%. It is the fact that he has a 'good engine' that makes him so useful in this formation (and last season for TC too). To get someone who can do everything required of the position properly would cost a fortune, just look at how much Man City spent on getting fullbacks.

There seems to be a misconception that Cooper is a good aerial defender, hes not.
Liam Cooper is actually top 10 for aerial duels faced this season for cbs, he is 4th most, but out of the top 10 he is 9th for duels won, 62%. Tom Lees who was never particularly good in the air is 5th for duels faced, even he has a higher win percentage.
We rely far to much on Pontus Jansson its ridiculous. We desperately needed a quality cb imo to help Jansson and we desperately needed more height in the summer imo.

Now these stats may be distorted somewhat because it may be that PJ and Cooper have decided between them that PJ will do more of the heading. As a centreback myself if I had a partner that was great in the air I would let him go for the majority of headers and I would look to sweep behind. PJ is taller than Cooper so it would make sense. Would be interesting to compare the stats to when it was Cooper and Berardi and see if the duels contested by Cooper increased in those matches (although again these could be distorted if the opposition targetted Berardi more in those matches so sometimes hard to really assess stats). However I do agree that Cooper isn't great in aerial duels but that is just my opinion, judged on watching him, rather than stats.

Add to that BPF being awful in the air we were always going to struggle from set pieces.


At times BPF has looked good in the air however for me he lacks experience which leads to being indecisive over when to come or not. He really should have been loaned out for a season or two to gain experience whilst we went with a more experienced keeper. It did seem that we were very interested in the likes of Gunn in the summer so it may be that we had planned to have a new no.1 with Blackman as back-up and BPF sent out on loan.

Imo Bielsa is largely to blame, he is admirable for his loyalty but we needed more quality additions in key areas in the summer.

Cb especially, and the club wanted a cb, Bielsa didnt, so the situation we are in in that respect is his fault.

Definitely but Bielsa is known for converting players to play at centreback. We all thought it was ludicrous to play Berardi as CB but Berardi played really well.

[dezzy]

Some people live in fanstay land. Highlighting faults from our board, I genuinely belive they think the club is run on hot air.
The club was a shell before Radz took over, he is being prudent with spending on the squad because we have to be! The cost of turning this club into a modern one with proper structures, would have cost millions alone, yes it’s frustrating we haven’t made more signings but come on lads it’s getting old, hysteria at the drop of a hat, BPF didn’t last long untill he ended up in the Dallas/Alioski club.

[Gandalf]

The constant repetition on here of Radz cheapskating because he didn't buy a centre half is tiresome. Bielsla didn't want one FULL STOP. We have talent (and height) in the U23's if needs be, and he is likely to play Phillips there anyway. Anyone would think that we didn't have the third best defensive record in the League.