Square Pegs In Round Holes

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Cjay
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Square Pegs In Round Holes

Post by Cjay » Sat Oct 20, 2018 4:08 pm

First things first.

Marcelo Bielsa has done a great job so far with what we have.

On paper our squad is probably about mid table, so to be where we are now is a great achievement.

Indeed we perhaps are a tad unfortunate to not have a few more points, we should have beaten Wednesday and perhaps Birmingham and Millwall to.

However today and vs Brentford we are starting to see one of the main criticisms of Bielsa throughout his career.

Stubbornness and strange selection choices.

Bielsa is famous for his loyalty to his players, he has used the fewest amount of players in the league (or he had not sure now).

He as mentioned before has a strict pecking order and it takes a lot for that to change.

Unfortunately this combination causes its own problems.

Kemar Roofe has played very well as a striker this season, but even his biggest fan (Faaip) i dont think would say he is a good winger.

Similarly Bielsa himself has acknowledged that he was wrong when he used Tyler Roberts as a winger in the past.

So with Harrison out logic dictated that one of two players should replace him.

Wing wizard Pablo Hernandez- but given his age we need to treat Pablo with care and as it turned out maybe it wasnt right to start him, although if he is fit enough for the bench surely he is fit enough to start?

Or Jack Clarke- The teenager made a real impression when he came on vs Brentford, there was a lot of hope he would start.

However Bielsa as mentioned is loyal, Tyler Roberts has done a decent job in Roofe and Bamfords absence, so Bielsa was likely to start him.

That should have meant Kemar Roofe on the bench.

But Bielsa is stubborn and his pecking order had Kemar Roofe ahead of the more obvious choice Jack Clarke and with concerns about the fitness of Hernandez Bielsa decided to play both Roberts and Roofe.

It didnt work and both were largely ineffective as they kept swapping places with neither looking comfortable out wide.

With Bielsa knowing neither Roofe and Roberts are wingers it was a selection driven by loyalty and stubbornness.

If Hernandez was fit enough for the bench he was fit enough to start.

Roofe shouldn't have been shoehorned in.

But far more infuriating imo was the situation at left back.

Vs Brentford Gianni Alioski had a wonderful cameo as a wing back, he was superb and furthermore shone at left back for his country during the international break.

Stuart Dallas was very dodgy vs Brentford at left back and spent a lot of time out of position.

So logic again suggested that Dallas should have been benched with Alioski at left back.

That of course would have meant we needed another winger.

Vs Brentford Jack Clarke replaced Dallas it was that change that pushed Ali to left back, it brought a marked improvement in our performance vs Brentford and it was logical to use what worked vs Brentford from the start vs Blackburn.

The loyalty Bielsa has is admirable but it creates its own problems.

Some players just arent good enough to play multiple positions.

Arturo Vidal may be able to play wing back/full back, Stuart Dallas isnt Vidal.

Kemar Roofe and Tyler Roberts are not wingers, we all know that as does Bielsa.

Loyalty to Roberts is fine but like Dallas some players just cant play multiple positions, Roofe is one and Roberts is another.

Bielsa is a very stubborn man and it showed today.

Dallas isnt a full back in any shape or form, Alioski is, Pearce is, Berardi is.

Roofe and Roberts wont ever be good wingers.

Jack Clarke 100% should have started in place of either Roberts or Roofe.

Tom Pearce or Gianni Alioski should have been left back.

Dallas if he had to start should have played as a winger, but if Pablo our most important player was fit enough for the bench he was fit enough to start imo.

Its to early to panic, but there are certain traits Bielsa has that are quite worrying.

He makes selections he knows are wrong but allows his pecking order to overrule common sense.

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Re: Square Pegs In Round Holes

Post by rab_rant » Sat Oct 20, 2018 4:16 pm

Cjay wrote:
Sat Oct 20, 2018 4:08 pm

He makes selections he knows are wrong but allows his pecking order to overrule common sense.

Common sense is not so common - Voltaire
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Re: Square Pegs In Round Holes

Post by faaip » Sat Oct 20, 2018 4:41 pm

That's how we fans see it, but lets face it if any of us are allowed to pick the team we'd be bottom 5 right now. Easy from a distance with a large helping of hindsight.

MB is atm miles ahead of where he should be and tbh I agree with this keeping of continuity, I hate reactive changes they seldom work and lets not forget we've been playing with 4/5 key first teamers out.

What I do know is MB is a much superior coach to anything we've had since probably the 90's. I know this as an absolute truth so I'm happy to let him do things his way.
BPF - Beradi - Jansson - Forshaw - Cooper - Douglas - Hernandez - Klich - Saiz - Roofe - Clarke

"objective fan" - is that a consistent oxymoron?"

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Re: Square Pegs In Round Holes

Post by faaip » Sat Oct 20, 2018 4:48 pm

That said our central defence looks suspect and teams are getting way too much room to run in front of the back 4. Now I'd personally say that points to issues with our central defenders and defensive midfielder but everyone else here thinks they're doing just fine so I must be wrong.

Our biggest problem for me right now is the DMF, whoever that is if indeed we play one, for me we need a tougher tackling, stronger player who knows where to position himself and can carry the ball out of defence.
BPF - Beradi - Jansson - Forshaw - Cooper - Douglas - Hernandez - Klich - Saiz - Roofe - Clarke

"objective fan" - is that a consistent oxymoron?"

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Re: Square Pegs In Round Holes

Post by SG90 » Sat Oct 20, 2018 5:10 pm

The issue for me atm is we only seem to turn up if we're behind, not blowing teams away at the beginning of matches. Whether that is down to Pablo being out, I don't know, but we have to start on the front foot on Weds.

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Re: Square Pegs In Round Holes

Post by 1964white » Sat Oct 20, 2018 5:42 pm

SG90 wrote:
Sat Oct 20, 2018 5:10 pm
The issue for me atm is we only seem to turn up if we're behind, not blowing teams away at the beginning of matches. Whether that is down to Pablo being out, I don't know, but we have to start on the front foot on Weds.
That means starting Pablo v Ipswich & not bringing on our main creative source with 20 minutes to go. Also Roofe upfront & ditch Roberts to the bench. Play Clarke on the other flank, at least young Jack took on & went round defenders as oppose to our two plodders down the left flank today

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Re: Square Pegs In Round Holes

Post by Cjay » Sat Oct 20, 2018 5:53 pm

faaip wrote:
Sat Oct 20, 2018 4:41 pm
That's how we fans see it, but lets face it if any of us are allowed to pick the team we'd be bottom 5 right now. Easy from a distance with a large helping of hindsight.

MB is atm miles ahead of where he should be and tbh I agree with this keeping of continuity, I hate reactive changes they seldom work and lets not forget we've been playing with 4/5 key first teamers out.

What I do know is MB is a much superior coach to anything we've had since probably the 90's. I know this as an absolute truth so I'm happy to let him do things his way.
It was reactive changes that got us a point vs Brentford.

It would have been proactive to go with what worked vs Brentford as opposed to reverting to what failed vs Brentford.

Bielsa is a great coach and he has done a very good job under the circumstances so far.

But he shouldn't be immune to criticism.

He has said Roberts isnt a winger himself, you have said Roofe isnt a winger and your his biggest fan.

Dallas will never be a full back in a million years, he is at best an average winger so he will be a below average full back.

I dont like shoehorning players into a team out of position.

It doesnt make sense especially when it has been tried and failed before.

Fully behind Bielsa but when he makes poor choices i think he should be called out for it.

Had we started with Alioski at left back and Hernandez and Clarke wide i think we would have seen a far better performance.

Bielsa is at fault for that imo.

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Re: Square Pegs In Round Holes

Post by faaip » Sat Oct 20, 2018 6:08 pm

He should be immune from criticism this early as we can see what he's trying to do. Which is manage a football club properly
BPF - Beradi - Jansson - Forshaw - Cooper - Douglas - Hernandez - Klich - Saiz - Roofe - Clarke

"objective fan" - is that a consistent oxymoron?"

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Re: Square Pegs In Round Holes

Post by 1964white » Sat Oct 20, 2018 9:57 pm

faaip wrote:
Sat Oct 20, 2018 6:08 pm
He should be immune from criticism this early as we can see what he's trying to do. Which is manage a football club properly
I personally didn't like the the team selection or the way we lined-up

There was no need to play one player out of their natural position let alone four :shock:

A recipe for a disaster & so it was proven !

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Re: Square Pegs In Round Holes

Post by Cjay » Sat Oct 20, 2018 10:16 pm

1964white wrote:
Sat Oct 20, 2018 9:57 pm
I personally didn't like the the team selection or the way we lined-up

There was no need to play one player out of their natural position let alone four :shock:

A recipe for a disaster & so it was proven !
This :tup:

Bielsa has done some great things.

But playing players out of position out of necessity is one thing.

Choosing to play multiple players out of position by choice is asking for trouble and if it goes wrong you deserve criticism imo no matter who you are.

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Re: Square Pegs In Round Holes

Post by Norm » Sun Oct 21, 2018 4:08 am

Our defence/DMF need sorting for the sake of stability - not having a go at anyone but the formation and selection aren't happy.

One more defeat and we're back in last season.

Crossing fingers for Wednesday and Saturday

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Re: Square Pegs In Round Holes

Post by 1964white » Sun Oct 21, 2018 7:51 am

Cjay wrote:
Sat Oct 20, 2018 10:16 pm
This :tup:

Bielsa has done some great things.

But playing players out of position out of necessity is one thing.

Choosing to play multiple players out of position by choice is asking for trouble and if it goes wrong you deserve criticism imo no matter who you are.
First time I have been critical of Bielsa

To play his full-backs on the wrong flanks is ridiculous

Tom Pearce is a natural LB, what has he done wrong. Dallas is not a defender, not sure what he gives to the team tbh

Why play Roofe on the wing, proven last season he isn't a winger. He did what so many managers do when players come into a side such as Roberts who has done quite well but to accommodate him & put your main striker on the flank his crazy

Why did he not start Hernandez, get us on the front foot & take Pablo off in the 2nd half if he tired, to bring Pablo on for the last 20 minutes (the player we've missed so badly) is also a crazy decision

As I said last night his team selection was poor

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Re: Square Pegs In Round Holes

Post by Newport white » Sun Oct 21, 2018 9:11 am

Who are we to question Beilsa? Yes I know we all are entitled to an opinion but we must keep the faith, unbelievably we are just 2 points of the top spot and if we can pick up 6 points in our home games this week we will be in a strong position, as I’ve said before if we can hang in there until Xmas when we should have Bamford and Brown fit plus if required one or two signings we can really go for it in the new year, let’s not forget the unusually high number of injuries to key players Beilsa has had to deal with up until now

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Re: Square Pegs In Round Holes

Post by BobHirst » Sun Oct 21, 2018 9:25 am

It has begun to feel a bit like last season.
I hope Bielsa sorts it out before it is irreservable.

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Re: Square Pegs In Round Holes

Post by BobHirst » Sun Oct 21, 2018 9:26 am

BobHirst wrote:
Sun Oct 21, 2018 9:25 am
It has begun to feel a bit like last season.
I hope Bielsa sorts it out before it is irreservable.
Before it can't be reversed :)

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Re: Square Pegs In Round Holes

Post by SG90 » Sun Oct 21, 2018 10:08 am

I don't agree it's similar to last year at all. Last year whenever we conceded we folded, whereas we seem to play our best when we go behind and you feel there is always a goal in us. But for a magnificent save from Klich, we'd have taken a point yesterday. You also have to take into account we're two points off the top after a run of horrendous luck with injuries, a tough fixture list and a poor recent run. If we're not good, then what does that make the rest? Remember WBA, Blunts, Forest etc all lost yesterday as well.

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Re: Square Pegs In Round Holes

Post by Newport white » Sun Oct 21, 2018 10:34 am

SG90 wrote:
Sun Oct 21, 2018 10:08 am
I don't agree it's similar to last year at all. Last year whenever we conceded we folded, whereas we seem to play our best when we go behind and you feel there is always a goal in us. But for a magnificent save from Klich, we'd have taken a point yesterday. You also have to take into account we're two points off the top after a run of horrendous luck with injuries, a tough fixture list and a poor recent run. If we're not good, then what does that make the rest? Remember WBA, Blunts, Forest etc all lost yesterday as well.
Absolutely correct, last year we were getting played off the park! Totally different this year

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Re: Square Pegs In Round Holes

Post by 1964white » Sun Oct 21, 2018 11:12 am

SG90 wrote:
Sun Oct 21, 2018 10:08 am
I don't agree it's similar to last year at all. Last year whenever we conceded we folded, whereas we seem to play our best when we go behind and you feel there is always a goal in us. But for a magnificent save from Klich, we'd have taken a point yesterday. You also have to take into account we're two points off the top after a run of horrendous luck with injuries, a tough fixture list and a poor recent run. If we're not good, then what does that make the rest? Remember WBA, Blunts, Forest etc all lost yesterday as well.
Agree we are nothing like as fickle as last season :tup:

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Re: Square Pegs In Round Holes

Post by dezzy » Sun Oct 21, 2018 11:26 am

The hysteria around this place after a few wins or losses is mind boggling, do people realize the teams we are playing are also semi decent and have a desire to win and get promoted, name 6 teams in the leauge you would swap manager and squad with, point is we are in the best place we have for a long time, I suggest enjoy it a bit more, but not too much, Phillips is not a English international standard player :zip:
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Re: Square Pegs In Round Holes

Post by faaip » Sun Oct 21, 2018 11:29 am

SG90 wrote:
Sun Oct 21, 2018 10:08 am
I don't agree it's similar to last year at all. Last year whenever we conceded we folded, whereas we seem to play our best when we go behind and you feel there is always a goal in us. But for a magnificent save from Klich, we'd have taken a point yesterday. You also have to take into account we're two points off the top after a run of horrendous luck with injuries, a tough fixture list and a poor recent run. If we're not good, then what does that make the rest? Remember WBA, Blunts, Forest etc all lost yesterday as well.
Thank f**k someone else is not just looking at two lines of meaningless stats..good post
BPF - Beradi - Jansson - Forshaw - Cooper - Douglas - Hernandez - Klich - Saiz - Roofe - Clarke

"objective fan" - is that a consistent oxymoron?"

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