What are you doing today ?

[1964white]

Having an afternoon nap


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Lovely photo of Muppet

[1964white]

Our fair-weather cat has had a busy day in the sunshine

Casper is shattered now

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[Mrs64]

All I got from that was Mrs64 was playing with 64's balls on the lawn...

The whole post is pure smut and filled with euphamism's...

I need a lie down now...

Oh Hector, you do make me laugh in fact I was in fits giggling like a little schoolgirl.

[1964white]

Work until 10am then take the rest of the day off

Coffee at 10.30 without the whisky this morning

In the garden as it's going to be hot, hot, hot!

Get the sun cream out folks I'm brown already

A nice long walk this afternoon & maybe another game of bowls with Mrs 64 on our lawn

[weasel]

Ok then. We cannot tow them straight back to France, we tow them back enough to release the dinghies within French boundaries...

Enough is enough, we cannot take in more people. Australia were strong.... they had that boat full of Chinese in storm conditions, they said NO and refused to let them land. They haven't had a problem since.

We need to be strong. Sorry, we are full. We are a small island. We have a pandemic going on, we do not need more people coming in bringing god knows what infections/diseases with them.

Why is it that we don't see people as people no matter where they are from?

Why should it matter where in the world people are born, they are people? Really is it any different to a Geordie moving to London for work? Just because he is moving from one part of England to another why should it be different to a person moving from one part of the world to another? Just because I am english doesn't mean I am not also a human being. Everyone here should count themselves lucky that they don't have to flee from the country they were born in and risk losing their lives just to try to make their lives better, we can do that simply by changing jobs.

[Peter in Blackpool]

not sure about that....

There is however a law that says if you start to save someones life, you have to continue even if they die, until a medic (ambulance or doctor) arrives and takes over or tells you to stop..

We were always told, if you haven't got time to stay and wait for an ambulance to arrive, bugger off away sharpish and don't get involved.

This was a good few years ago though...

didn't the paparazzi get into trouble for photographing the dying princess diana instead of trying to save her life?

[hector]

the laws may be different in France though...

[hector]

But what the law says, and what is moraly right can sometimes be 2 different things.....

[rich_leeds64]

Why is it that we don't see people as people no matter where they are from?

Why should it matter where in the world people are born, they are people? Really is it any different to a Geordie moving to London for work? Just because he is moving from one part of England to another why should it be different to a person moving from one part of the world to another? Just because I am english doesn't mean I am not also a human being. Everyone here should count themselves lucky that they don't have to flee from the country they were born in and risk losing their lives just to try to make their lives better, we can do that simply by changing jobs.

The point here is they are not coming for genuine reasons. Boats full of young men some linked to organised crime others to terrorism. Where are all the women and children??
We hand out enough housing and benefits already to anybody who needs them without an endless stream arriving daily. Now more than ever we should be vigilant to stop these illegals arriving with the covid pandemic but we also need as much cash as we possibly can to keep our country afloat, not just the NHS but all businesses and individuals who are affected and this will take billions of pounds and years to restore and some things will never be the same again.

[Norm]

weasel wrote:
Why is it that we don't see people as people no matter where they are from?

Why should it matter where in the world people are born, they are people? Really is it any different to a Geordie moving to London for work? Just because he is moving from one part of England to another why should it be different to a person moving from one part of the world to another? Just because I am english doesn't mean I am not also a human being. Everyone here should count themselves lucky that they don't have to flee from the country they were born in and risk losing their lives just to try to make their lives better, we can do that simply by changing jobs.

I think this is the only subject over which I've ever disagreed with you, and fundamentally at that.
Sovereign nations are unfortunately but necessarily based on their citizens' and and other legal inhabitants' needs and contributions. If someone moves from Glasgow to Belfast or Doncaster to Grimsby there is no change in the situation in that there is no additional burden on the UK's financial and social services. They are simply moving location but are known and accounted for quantities in the nation's financial and social planning, including expected living and pension services.

However, people coming to the UK in whatever capacity from outside are an additional potential burden on the UK's already overstretched social, financial and medical services. In an ideal world there would be no barrier to freedom of movement but the world doesn't work like that as long as we have individual nations, each with their own systems. BB is quite correct in that our system gets more overburdened with each person seeking to come in. There's only so many people we, or any other nation, can absorb - the thing is, those seeking to enter the UK, whether legally or illegally, are most likely to be wanting to come for our free social, housing and medical services rather than to contribute. When I was in school our population was 48m and it's now up to about 64million - social and medical services are already overwhelmed by the sheer number of people who've flocked in from what used to be the Commonwealth, Europe since we became EU members and Eastern Europe after communism went out of the window - the worst period of all when Tony Blair and Labour opened the borders for a 10-year period in the manner you advocate, with no apparent thought as to how newcomers' presence could be housed, fed and kept healthy. So much strain was put on the existing inhabitants, who were often refused things that the newcomers were given (council houses and certain medical facilities is what I'm looking at). Very few immigrants are net contributors.

I'm far from heartless but, without change so that all countries deal with immigration the same way and give free social and medical services the same as ours, which is never going to happen, enough's enough.

[becchio bear]

Why is it that we don't see people as people no matter where they are from?

Why should it matter where in the world people are born, they are people? Really is it any different to a Geordie moving to London for work? Just because he is moving from one part of England to another why should it be different to a person moving from one part of the world to another? Just because I am english doesn't mean I am not also a human being. Everyone here should count themselves lucky that they don't have to flee from the country they were born in and risk losing their lives just to try to make their lives better, we can do that simply by changing jobs.

I think you are being rather naive here, possibly deliberately

Of course it is different from people moving around one country to people entering another country illegally. I'd love to just pop over to Australia, New Zealand, Canada and have a different life. Unfortunately real life isn't like that and Norm explains it perfectly on this thread. People moving around the world to live and work is obviously fine when done through the proper channels and not just by sailing over the Channel!

You talk of people fleeing their country of birth, by the time they are at Calais trying to get to the UK they have gone through numerous "safe" countries. They are economic migrants pure and simple and see the UK as a soft touch.

[Peter in Blackpool]

Why is it that we don't see people as people no matter where they are from?

Why should it matter where in the world people are born, they are people? Really is it any different to a Geordie moving to London for work? Just because he is moving from one part of England to another why should it be different to a person moving from one part of the world to another? Just because I am english doesn't mean I am not also a human being. Everyone here should count themselves lucky that they don't have to flee from the country they were born in and risk losing their lives just to try to make their lives better, we can do that simply by changing jobs.

interesting discussion going on here now, on balance i have to support weasel.

if you were an afghan in calais you would desperately want to get your family to the uk so much so that you would take enormous risks to do so.

why is it we can live in uk and they cannot? are we more superior, first among equals? Like weasel says we are all the same race. If someone came to your door distressed and injured would you turn them away from your home cos they are not family? What cruel heartless people we have become.

[becchio bear]

interesting discussion going on here now, on balance i have to support weasel.

if you were an afghan in calais you would desperately want to get your family to the uk so much so that you would take enormous risks to do so.

why is it we can live in uk and they cannot? are we more superior, first among equals? Like weasel says we are all the same race. If someone came to your door distressed and injured would you turn them away from your home cos they are not family? What cruel heartless people we have become.

What's wrong with France or Germany or any of the other countries they have travelled through?

Why is it that Australians can live in Australia and I cannot? are they more superior, first among equals? We obviously don't agree on this subject and are never likely to.....

[weasel]

The trouble is we judge without looking at the person. We don't see the person we see freeloaders - well guess what go to any council estate anywhere in the country and there are millions of freeloaders that were born and bred in England and could trace their descendants back several generations and would all be English. Likewise we don't see the person we see organised criminals well again we have english criminals that will move all over the country to carry on bringing misery to people.

The way people speak, or type, it is as if there are no 'wrong uns' in the country and any problems are caused by dirty foreigners.

I am sure organised criminals aren't risking their lives to move over here. They will be making their money from the poor unfortunates that are trying to cross from France to England in a dinghy. Organised criminals will be coming here on aeroplanes, not an inflatable dinghy.

[becchio bear]

The trouble is we judge without looking at the person. We don't see the person we see freeloaders - well guess what go to any council estate anywhere in the country and there are millions of freeloaders that were born and bred in England and could trace their descendants back several generations and would all be English. Likewise we don't see the person we see organised criminals well again we have english criminals that will move all over the country to carry on bringing misery to people.

The way people speak, or type, it is as if there are no 'wrong uns' in the country and any problems are caused by dirty foreigners.

I am sure organised criminals aren't risking their lives to move over here. They will be making their money from the poor unfortunates that are trying to cross from France to England in a dinghy. Organised criminals will be coming here on aeroplanes, not an inflatable dinghy.

Yes I do see freeloaders when they are entering our country illegally. I'm well aware we have born and bred freeloaders but that's not the point. We already have enough we certainly don't need anymore!!

[hector]

But why do they want to come here??

It is not to escape war zones... they have done that whilst in Europe, so they have to be only economic migrants, and as such any perils that they put themselves in, or their families, is purely their choice, no one is forcing them to come here from the safety of France, Belgium and Holland.

We have enough big issue sellers, we don't need any more.

[rich_leeds64]

The trouble is we judge without looking at the person. We don't see the person we see freeloaders - well guess what go to any council estate anywhere in the country and there are millions of freeloaders that were born and bred in England and could trace their descendants back several generations and would all be English. Likewise we don't see the person we see organised criminals well again we have english criminals that will move all over the country to carry on bringing misery to people.

The way people speak, or type, it is as if there are no 'wrong uns' in the country and any problems are caused by dirty foreigners.

I am sure organised criminals aren't risking their lives to move over here. They will be making their money from the poor unfortunates that are trying to cross from France to England in a dinghy. Organised criminals will be coming here on aeroplanes, not an inflatable dinghy.

I’m more than aware of the huge numbers of freeloaders and criminals already in residence here which is why we cannot sustain any more turning up expecting full access to our benefits system, healthcare, housing and putting little or nothing back into society. As hector mentions why here? They’ve already passed through many safe havens but choose to come here knowing they’ll be looked after. I think the Covid pandemic will change a great number of things benefit wise as we’ll have spent so much the piggy bank will be empty and hopefully the benefits system will have a huge overhaul and make it far less attractive to people trying to get to the “land of free money” also the bone idle freeloading population of Britain will have their benefits reviewed.

Just how many people can our small island nation cope with?

[weasel]

But why do they want to come here??

It is not to escape war zones... they have done that whilst in Europe, so they have to be only economic migrants, and as such any perils that they put themselves in, or their families, is purely their choice, no one is forcing them to come here from the safety of France, Belgium and Holland.

We have enough big issue sellers, we don't need any more.

Everywhere they go they are persecuted so they keep going, eventually making it to France and then here. But where is there to go after here - apart from the Isle Of Man or Ireland then there is nowhere else really to keep moving to. They may well have also been told lies by the people making money from them, the traffickers, told lies about what they can get in Britain etc.

We need to stop judging everyone en masse as every person is an individual with their own reason, some deserving some not, to come here.

[becchio bear]

Everywhere they go they are persecuted so they keep going, eventually making it to France and then here. But where is there to go after here - apart from the Isle Of Man or Ireland then there is nowhere else really to keep moving to. They may well have also been told lies by the people making money from them, the traffickers, told lies about what they can get in Britain etc.

We need to stop judging everyone en masse as every person is an individual with their own reason, some deserving some not, to come here.

They should have been made to stop in Germany seeing as Mama Merkel was the one who opened the floodgates and invited them all.

[1964white]

Back on topic

Alarm set for 5.45pm

Light breakfast with a cuppa before heading off to Tesco. Arrived there at 6.55am ending up in a queue behind about 25 early risers.
Only one allowed in so whilst Jill is trollying around the aisles I'm sat in the car posting this mundane rubbish on MOT. Should be home for 8am, unpack the shopping then a more hearty breakfast, one of the pluses of coronavirus I have two breakfasts on our weekly grocery shop