The LUFC Breakfast Debate (Mon 24th Sept)

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Ellandback1
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The LUFC Breakfast Debate (Mon 24th Sept)

Post by Ellandback1 » Mon Sep 24, 2018 7:08 am

Good Morning Everyone

Leeds suffered their first league defeat of the season against Birmingham at the weekend courtesy of a Che Adams first half brace and although Alioski grabbed a goal with five minutes remaining, Leeds were unable to find an equaliser.

Phil Hay makes an interesting point in the Yorkshire Evening Post:-

'When the bus carrying Leeds United’s first league defeat arrived, the question was who would be thrown under it?'

Answer: Bielsa threw himself under the bus (bucket first)!

Speaking at the post match presser Bielsa said:-"The proposal I chose for this game at the beginning was not the right one," Bielsa said. "We could not make the link between defence and attack because [Kalvin] Phillips could not receive the ball.

"Phillips had to assume the consequences for the mistake I made. When I corrected the mistake, the rival had already scored two goals. It is a high price to pay for a tactical mistake."




Considering both shots were taken from distance, should Peacock Farrell have done better in keeping them out?




Was the Ref bias towards Birmingham? Bielsa doesn't think he influenced the result.

“The referee can sometimes take the right decision, sometimes the wrong one, but I don’t think he influenced the result.” Bielsa said.




The stats don't lie. Leeds had 72% of the possession and 17 shots at goal, compared to Birmingham's 4. Were Leeds actually that bad?

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Re: The LUFC Breakfast Debate (Mon 24th Sept)

Post by 1964white » Mon Sep 24, 2018 7:37 am

Ellandback1 wrote:
Mon Sep 24, 2018 7:08 am
Good Morning Everyone
Leeds suffered their first league defeat of the season against Birmingham at the weekend courtesy of a Che Adams first half brace and although Alioski grabbed a goal with five minutes remaining, Leeds were unable to find an equaliser.
Phil Hay makes an interesting point in the Yorkshire Evening Post:-
'When the bus carrying Leeds United’s first league defeat arrived, the question was who would be thrown under it?'
Answer: Bielsa threw himself under the bus (bucket first)!
Speaking at the post match presser Bielsa said:-"The proposal I chose for this game at the beginning was not the right one," Bielsa said. "We could not make the link between defence and attack because [Kalvin] Phillips could not receive the ball.
"Phillips had to assume the consequences for the mistake I made. When I corrected the mistake, the rival had already scored two goals. It is a high price to pay for a tactical mistake."
Good morning Matt & everyone

Typical of the great man deflecting any blame from his players.

I don't hold Bielsa or Philips responsible for that defeat. I just think it was one of those days, a bad day at the office!
Ellandback1 wrote:
Mon Sep 24, 2018 7:08 am
Considering both shots were taken from distance, should Peacock Farrell have done better in keeping them out?
Yes BPF should have done better, he's still raw & he'll learn from his mistakes
Ellandback1 wrote:
Mon Sep 24, 2018 7:08 am
Was the Ref bias towards Birmingham? Bielsa doesn't think he influenced the result.
“The referee can sometimes take the right decision, sometimes the wrong one, but I don’t think he influenced the result.” Bielsa said
Poor referee who never got to grips with all the blatant time-wasting, he stopped the game several times as the Brum players in rotation deliberately fell to the ground feigning injury to disrupt our game, we were on a breakaway twice when he blew his whistle to halt play, neither incident were head injuries.
It's call gamesmanship, I call it cheating. It would never happen in Rugby League as play is allowed to continue whilst injured players are being treated on the pitch. FIFA rules have given a license for players to flaunt & cheat at any given opportunity, not good for the game or the watching fans.
Ellandback1 wrote:
Mon Sep 24, 2018 7:08 am
The stats don't lie. Leeds had 72% of the possession and 17 shots at goal, compared to Birmingham's 4. Were Leeds actually that bad?
We were nowhere near as fluent as we've been previously, our passing was woeful & we created probably three decent chances to score.

Time for the bounce-back factor. Lets go stuff the Owls on Friday night

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Re: The LUFC Breakfast Debate (Mon 24th Sept)

Post by Ellandback1 » Mon Sep 24, 2018 8:30 am

Morning Leon, Birmingham certainly made it difficult for us by getting 11 players behind the ball when we were attacking.

Yes, I'd call it cheating too. It was so blatent.

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Re: The LUFC Breakfast Debate (Mon 24th Sept)

Post by Chilli D » Mon Sep 24, 2018 9:07 am

Morning EB1 and everyone,

While I agree with '64 that MB cleverly apportions no blame to Kalvin Phillips for the tactical substitution, this is the second time that he has done this to him regardless of the reason and think it could start to affect his confidence. Surely he could have got orders on to the pitch to try and rectify what he felt was wrong or at the very least given it until half time? What happens if things don't start well on Friday, KP will immediately start to think he is going to get subbed before half time.

In my opinion BPF was definitely at fault for the first goal and I think he will be disappointed he didn't save the second. It should be pointed out that Barry Douglas made a poor attempt at a tackle just prior to the shot. It does worry me that we haven't got a more experienced keeper in our squad..

100% agree with 64's comments regarding the referee. He allowed far too much time wasting and this totally disrupted our play. He had a poor game.

I only saw the second half via a live stream but many on here have said our performance at Millwall was worse so maybe it wasn't as bad as I thought.
Friday will be tough as Sheff Wed are buoyant after their win at Villa. Let's see what they boys are made of. Hopefully the defeat will have the desired effect.

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Re: The LUFC Breakfast Debate (Mon 24th Sept)

Post by 1964white » Mon Sep 24, 2018 9:19 am

Chilli D wrote:
Mon Sep 24, 2018 9:07 am
Morning EB1 and everyone,

While I agree with '64 that MB cleverly apportions no blame to Kalvin Phillips for the tactical substitution, this is the second time that he has done this to him regardless of the reason and think it could start to affect his confidence. Surely he could have got orders on to the pitch to try and rectify what he felt was wrong or at the very least given it until half time? What happens if things don't start well on Friday, KP will immediately start to think he is going to get subbed before half time.

In my opinion BPF was definitely at fault for the first goal and I think he will be disappointed he didn't save the second. It should be pointed out that Barry Douglas made a poor attempt at a tackle just prior to the shot. It does worry me that we haven't got a more experienced keeper in our squad..

100% agree with 64's comments regarding the referee. He allowed far too much time wasting and this totally disrupted our play. He had a poor game.

I only saw the second half via a live stream but many on here have said our performance at Millwall was worse so maybe it wasn't as bad as I thought.
Friday will be tough as Sheff Wed are buoyant after their win at Villa. Let's see what they boys are made of. Hopefully the defeat will have the desired effect.
Cheers Chilli, re-assuring that someone agrees with me on football matters :tup:

Personally I didn't think we were worse at Millwall, we were much more solid at the back until the last two minutes, we created & missed chances & the Wall keeper made one great save from Ayling. I thought it was a solid performance & we deserved the draw

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Re: The LUFC Breakfast Debate (Mon 24th Sept)

Post by 1964white » Mon Sep 24, 2018 9:29 am

Ellandback1 wrote:
Mon Sep 24, 2018 8:30 am
Morning Leon, Birmingham certainly made it difficult for us by getting 11 players behind the ball when we were attacking.

Yes, I'd call it cheating too. It was so blatent.
As I say the football authorities could stop that type of cheating by continuing play when players go down injured who generally make a remarkable recovery & are running round like a dog with a ball after pathetically rolling around. Injured players wouldn't go down so easy & feign injury if they knew it wasn't to their advantage. Deliberately halting play is disrupting the flow of a game & also cheating the fans.

Brum players were obviously under orders from Monk who has gone way down in my estimation, I really hope the Tractor boys wipe that smirk off his face come 5pm on Saturday.

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Re: The LUFC Breakfast Debate (Mon 24th Sept)

Post by 1964white » Mon Sep 24, 2018 9:56 am

I remember Jim Storrie hobbling around with his leg hanging off v Liverpool in the 1965 cup final

Proper men then, not big girls blouses we witness so often these days

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Re: The LUFC Breakfast Debate (Mon 24th Sept)

Post by Ellandback1 » Mon Sep 24, 2018 10:37 am

Chilli D wrote:
Mon Sep 24, 2018 9:07 am
Morning EB1 and everyone,

While I agree with '64 that MB cleverly apportions no blame to Kalvin Phillips for the tactical substitution, this is the second time that he has done this to him regardless of the reason and think it could start to affect his confidence. Surely he could have got orders on to the pitch to try and rectify what he felt was wrong or at the very least given it until half time? What happens if things don't start well on Friday, KP will immediately start to think he is going to get subbed before half time.

In my opinion BPF was definitely at fault for the first goal and I think he will be disappointed he didn't save the second. It should be pointed out that Barry Douglas made a poor attempt at a tackle just prior to the shot. It does worry me that we haven't got a more experienced keeper in our squad..

100% agree with 64's comments regarding the referee. He allowed far too much time wasting and this totally disrupted our play. He had a poor game.

I only saw the second half via a live stream but many on here have said our performance at Millwall was worse so maybe it wasn't as bad as I thought.
Friday will be tough as Sheff Wed are buoyant after their win at Villa. Let's see what they boys are made of. Hopefully the defeat will have the desired effect.
Morning Chilli D, I'm starting to develop a bit of a problem with Dallas. His performances time and time again are far better for Northern Ireland than they are for Leeds. I would have far preferred to have seen Forshaw come on and Alioski to come off, and for us to boss the midfield with Phillips and Forshaw at the heart of our midfield which would have freed up Saiz.

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Re: The LUFC Breakfast Debate (Mon 24th Sept)

Post by Cjay » Mon Sep 24, 2018 10:54 am

BPF should have done better, as should others.

Not sure i believe Bielsa, knowing what a perfectionist he is i imagine Philips part in the 2nd will have really infuriated him. But good managers protect there players.

The fake injuries when we looked like we could build something were annoying, as were the niggly fouls and timewasting, but we cant use that as an excuse.

We were unlucky in some respects, wasteful in others and careless in parts, but Birmingham deserve credit. They managed the game well and despite the gamesmanship we didnt do enough in the end.

Must bounce back vs Wednesday otherwise deja vu could set in, unbeaten streak ended on the 9th game last season to.

And i dont understand why Shacks was picked ahead of Clarke, i find that frustrating and odd.

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Re: The LUFC Breakfast Debate (Mon 24th Sept)

Post by Ellandback1 » Mon Sep 24, 2018 11:57 am

In a serialisation in the Times of extracts from Keegan’s book, the former England and Newcastle United manager describes a transfer deal that took place when Dennis Wise was manager at Elland Road a decade ago.

Explaining how Newcastle signed players they knew to be wholly inadequate behind his back, Keegan cited how former St James’ Park director of football Wise also sanctioned similar agreements at Leeds.

“Wise’s argument was that it was not out of the ordinary for these kinds of deals to happen in football, referring to them as “commercials”, and telling a story about his time at Leeds to illustrate his point,” Keegan wrote, as serialised in the Times.

“According to Dennis, the Leeds chairman, Ken Bates, approached him to suggest they offer a boy of 17 a professional contract. The boy wasn’t good enough to be a footballer but that, plainly, was not the most important detail as far as Leeds were concerned. The boy’s father had a successful business and a lucrative deal had been arranged for that company to sponsor Leeds — on condition they signed the boss’s son.

“The boy was never named. Yet Wise made it clear he was happy to go along with this sham. “I said to Ken, ‘He won’t play in the first team, he won’t play in the reserves, is that OK?’ And he said, ‘OK.’ It wasn’t explained to the boy. His dad didn’t tell him. And I didn’t think it was my responsibility either.”

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Re: The LUFC Breakfast Debate (Mon 24th Sept)

Post by Norm » Mon Sep 24, 2018 12:41 pm

The only question I have is, are we being found out? I don't see the games apart from the odd lucky stream so can only go on what you guys write and reports from ESPN etc., and I'm grateful for that, but it means I can't really get the 'feel' of a game like you can when you watch it live.

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Re: The LUFC Breakfast Debate (Mon 24th Sept)

Post by 1964white » Mon Sep 24, 2018 1:13 pm

Norm wrote:
Mon Sep 24, 2018 12:41 pm
The only question I have is, are we being found out? I don't see the games apart from the odd lucky stream so can only go on what you guys write and reports from ESPN etc., and I'm grateful for that, but it means I can't really get the 'feel' of a game like you can when you watch it live.
We are missing the likes of Pablo, Roofe & Berardi plus Bamford as back-up striker which does not help our cause. On Saturday Klich & Phillips were subbed so that's more or less half the team that preformed so well in our earlier matches not on the pitch v Brum, naturally the fluency has been affected as the balance of the side is not quite right with our best players missing Norm

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Re: The LUFC Breakfast Debate (Mon 24th Sept)

Post by Ellandback1 » Mon Sep 24, 2018 1:26 pm

Cjay wrote:
Mon Sep 24, 2018 10:54 am
BPF should have done better, as should others.

Not sure i believe Bielsa, knowing what a perfectionist he is i imagine Philips part in the 2nd will have really infuriated him. But good managers protect there players.

The fake injuries when we looked like we could build something were annoying, as were the niggly fouls and timewasting, but we cant use that as an excuse.

We were unlucky in some respects, wasteful in others and careless in parts, but Birmingham deserve credit. They managed the game well and despite the gamesmanship we didnt do enough in the end.

Must bounce back vs Wednesday otherwise deja vu could set in, unbeaten streak ended on the 9th game last season to.

And i dont understand why Shacks was picked ahead of Clarke, i find that frustrating and odd.
Afternoon Cjay, with Shackleton, probably because he is a big unit, and was fearful Clarke could get manhandled???

With completely with you regarding considering the Wendies game as a must win...

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Re: The LUFC Breakfast Debate (Mon 24th Sept)

Post by Ellandback1 » Mon Sep 24, 2018 1:28 pm

Norm wrote:
Mon Sep 24, 2018 12:41 pm
The only question I have is, are we being found out? I don't see the games apart from the odd lucky stream so can only go on what you guys write and reports from ESPN etc., and I'm grateful for that, but it means I can't really get the 'feel' of a game like you can when you watch it live.
Hi Norm, I don't think so.

We dominated possession, shots (on and off target) and corners.

50% of their shots went in, both from 25 yards...

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Re: The LUFC Breakfast Debate (Mon 24th Sept)

Post by Gandalf » Mon Sep 24, 2018 1:46 pm

Ellandback1 wrote:
Mon Sep 24, 2018 1:26 pm
Afternoon Cjay, with Shackleton, probably because he is a big unit, and was fearful Clarke could get manhandled???

With completely with you regarding considering the Wendies game as a must win...
I think you're confusing Shackleton with Edmondson, and personally, I would be happy with a point at Hillsborough.
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Re: The LUFC Breakfast Debate (Mon 24th Sept)

Post by faaip » Mon Sep 24, 2018 1:52 pm

Gandalf wrote:
Mon Sep 24, 2018 1:46 pm
I think you're confusing Shackleton with Edmondson, and personally, I would be happy with a point at Hillsborough.
Agreed, way to soon for must win games..
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Re: The LUFC Breakfast Debate (Mon 24th Sept)

Post by faaip » Mon Sep 24, 2018 1:57 pm

Norm wrote:
Mon Sep 24, 2018 12:41 pm
The only question I have is, are we being found out? I don't see the games apart from the odd lucky stream so can only go on what you guys write and reports from ESPN etc., and I'm grateful for that, but it means I can't really get the 'feel' of a game like you can when you watch it live.
Was always going to happen but what I didn't really expect was not a tactical answer to our style but a gamesmanship one. Hell of a compliment Brum paid us btw. We can't beat them playing football so we must stop them from doing so. The constant falling over, trainers on the pitch affected our fluidity and speed at which we play.
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Re: The LUFC Breakfast Debate (Mon 24th Sept)

Post by Cjay » Mon Sep 24, 2018 2:23 pm

Ellandback1 wrote:
Mon Sep 24, 2018 1:26 pm
Afternoon Cjay, with Shackleton, probably because he is a big unit, and was fearful Clarke could get manhandled???

With completely with you regarding considering the Wendies game as a must win...
Must win for the fans i think, but in terms of the season it isnt, just a must not lose.

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Re: The LUFC Breakfast Debate (Mon 24th Sept)

Post by 1964white » Mon Sep 24, 2018 3:01 pm

faaip wrote:
Mon Sep 24, 2018 1:57 pm
Was always going to happen but what I didn't really expect was not a tactical answer to our style but a gamesmanship one. Hell of a compliment Brum paid us btw. We can't beat them playing football so we must stop them from doing so. The constant falling over, trainers on the pitch affected our fluidity and speed at which we play.
Still cheating to win at any means, even worse was the referee never got a grip of their extreme gamesmanship. I'd imagine it's difficult to combat those type of tactics

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Re: The LUFC Breakfast Debate (Mon 24th Sept)

Post by Ellandback1 » Mon Sep 24, 2018 3:19 pm

Gandalf wrote:
Mon Sep 24, 2018 1:46 pm
I think you're confusing Shackleton with Edmondson, and personally, I would be happy with a point at Hillsborough.
Afternoon Gandalf, yes I was.

Shackleton I thought was still injured. though.

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