The LUFC Breakfast Debate (Wed 22 Aug)

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Ellandback1
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The LUFC Breakfast Debate (Wed 22 Aug)

Post by Ellandback1 »

Good Morning Everyone

Marcelo Bielsa declared himself 'happy' saying that last night's 2-2 draw at the Liberty Stadium was a fair result.

He also admitting defensive errors denied Leeds United the chance of a fourth straight league win - if only someone suggested to him that he needed another centre back...

As we know Jansson put his back out on Sunday; this was followed by Cooper pulling his hamstring minutes before the start of the game.

This meant moving Ayling from right back to centre back and giving a league debut to young Jamie Shackleton.

Fair play to the youngster he brilliantly set up Roofe for an equaliser just before half time, but his defensive display was lacking from time to time.

Who would have thought that we'd be playing Berardi and Ayling as centre backs - Square pegs in round holes for Bielsa magic?




Lets quickly talk about Swansea's goals - before I do, did you know that McBurnie was on Leeds books until the age of 14, I think the commentator may have mentioned it...

In Bielsa's own words Defensive mistakes cost us!

Who was at fault?

Should Peacock Farrell have done better?




Phillips was substituted after 30 minutes, sure, he had been booked, but was it the right decision in your opinion?

Was Baker's performance any better?




Heading? Will Leeds come unstuck this season from set pieces due to their lack of height?




Who thinks after this defensive display that Bielsa's attention in the loanee market will be more concentrated on another central defender?
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Re: The LUFC Breakfast Debate (Wed 22 Aug)

Post by Dalton »

Morning all,

Definitely need a centre back for many reasons. A lump like McBurnie should never be allowed to score a brace. BPF needs to work on commanding his box more as well to help combat the height problem. That all said i thought the team showed determination to keep getting back into the game and taking something from the match which never would have happened 6 months ago
My my my, such a lot of guns around town and so few brains
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Re: The LUFC Breakfast Debate (Wed 22 Aug)

Post by Azkal »

Ellandback1 wrote: Wed Aug 22, 2018 7:11 am Good Morning Everyone

Marcelo Bielsa declared himself 'happy' saying that last night's 2-2 draw at the Liberty Stadium was a fair result.

He also admitting defensive errors denied Leeds United the chance of a fourth straight league win - if only someone suggested to him that he needed another centre back...

As we know Jansson put his back out on Sunday; this was followed by Cooper pulling his hamstring minutes before the start of the game.

This meant moving Ayling from right back to centre back and giving a league debut to young Jamie Shackleton.

Fair play to the youngster he brilliantly set up Roofe for an equaliser just before half time, but his defensive display was lacking from time to time. Impressed with the 18 year old, who imo showed a composure and maturity beyond his years. Did not appeared fazed on the big stage and showed his confidence making some superb forays down the right. This game will pay dividends for his confidence, look forward to seeing more of him in the starting XI this season.

Who would have thought that we'd be playing Berardi and Ayling as centre backs - Square pegs in round holes for Bielsa magic?
Not ideal, hopefully we can get Coops and Jansson back in contention for Saturday



Lets quickly talk about Swansea's goals - before I do, did you know that McBurnie was on Leeds books until the age of 14, I think the commentator may have mentioned it...

In Bielsa's own words Defensive mistakes cost us!

Who was at fault?

Should Peacock Farrell have done better? I think most of our players looked out of sync in the first half, which in fairness would have been largely due to the forced last minute changes, and subsequent last minute individual game plan role responsibility mandates. I am sure there will be debate whether he could have done better for the first goal, however his save towards the end with his legs ensured we went back home with a valuable point. I am certainly not a detractor of Peacock- Farrell, and believe he has done a sterling job in the circumstance since making his XI team debut towards the back end of last season. I am just not sure yet whether he is right for the No.1 spot, as he does not give me the same confidence, say for example, that I had when Paul Robinson came in for the injured Nigel Martyn in 2000.




Phillips was substituted after 30 minutes, sure, he had been booked, but was it the right decision in your opinion? Hard to say to be honest, with out really knowing the reasoning behind Bielsa's decision. Along with a number of his team mates in the first halve, he did not look at the races for whatever reason, but I am confident Bielsa made the correct decision based upon on his analysis of the situation.

Was Baker's performance any better? I felt Baker had a steady game taking in to account his minutes on the field thus far this season




Heading? Will Leeds come unstuck this season from set pieces due to their lack of height?




Who thinks after this defensive display that Bielsa's attention in the loanee market will be more concentrated on another central defender? I would like to think we can improve in this department, but would not like to bring in for the sake of making up the numbers. Any loan, (preferably loan to purchase option), should be done only if it significantly improves our current XI squad. It should be noted that the existing XI squad, with the exception of last night, have kept an relatively decent defensive tally
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Re: The LUFC Breakfast Debate (Wed 22 Aug)

Post by lufc1304 »

Morning Matt,

I think we are all in agreement that we another CB, we are incredibly light there as was borne out last night. Had PJ or Cooper been playing, McBurnie wouldn't have been half as effective as he was. Hope Bielsa now sees that, though he is renowned for being stubborn, so who knows. A DM to challenge for Phillips' place would be good as well, though he has been very solid up until last night.

BPF is still learning his trade to a certain extent (20-ish senior games?), and having to do so in the spotlight. Maybe that's unfair on the lad but, again, Bielsa has stated he's happy with his options there. I just hope that doesn't come back to bite us on the arse.

Having said all that, I agree with Dalton that we showed good character and resilience to come back twice against a team boasting several players who were playing in the Prem last year. And with a patched up defence. We'd have lost that game 3-0 last season. Onward we go.....
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Re: The LUFC Breakfast Debate (Wed 22 Aug)

Post by weasel »

Who would have thought that we'd be playing Berardi and Ayling as centre backs - Square pegs in round holes for Bielsa magic?
At times all football clubs have to use a square peg in a round hole. If Cooper, PJ and Shaugnessy are all fit then a loan or permanent signing either has to be good enough to start or not good enough that they are happy enough to be on the bench. Always tricky to get the right number of players in and quite possibly at the weekend all the above 3 could be seen as fit to play. Having a back up player that is good enough to play in 3 or 4 positions is ideal as he will likely get more matches than someone who is simply back up for 1 position. Also with centrebacks you tend not to rotate them as much and not to substitute them anywhere near as much as you do with midfielders and forwards.


Swansea's goals - who was at fault?
Should Peacock Farrell have done better?

BPF should have done better but equally so should the players in front of him for the first goal.
TV commentators blaming Berardi for the second goal but I feel it was a bit harsh as it really was a superb header. Berardi probably thought he didn't need to compete for the header as the ball was going behind McBurnie but it really was a great finish and I doubt many strikers would have scored that. Perhaps a centreback might have gone for the header so it is a lesson learnt for Berardi but as a centreback you are always learning and trying to not make the same mistake which is why centrebacks tend to improve with age as the reading of the game is vastly improved and mistakes should happen less.
McBurnie was like a man possessed last night and I wonder if he plays as well against other teams. Seemed like a real pr*ck during the game but came across really well in the after match interview.


Phillips was substituted after 30 minutes, sure, he had been booked, but was it the right decision in your opinion?
Yes and Bielsa's explanation (about KP having been booked) made perfect sense too.

Was Baker's performance any better?
Baker did okay but didn't really play the KP role. He looked good in possession without looking great. Looks like he is a decent midfielder who will hopefully improve as the season continues and he gets more minutes and more used to playing in the Bielsa system.

Heading? Will Leeds come unstuck this season from set pieces due to their lack of height?
It is more about organisation I feel rather than a lack of height when defending set pieces, especially when Cooper and PJ return. Under Monk we had PJ in the right position and given a free role when defending corners. He was allowed to simply attack the area where the ball was likely to go rather than worrying about where the opposition player was. Zonal marking at corners works incredibly well if done properly as realistically there is a very small area where the ball is dangerous - concentrate on having 2 or 3 of your best headerers of the ball being able to attack the ball there and you will very rarely concede goals.

Who thinks after this defensive display that Bielsa's attention in the loanee market will be more concentrated on another central defender?
I think a lot will depend on how highly he rates Shaugnessy and how close to full fitness him, PJ and Cooper are. I wouldn't be surprised if we went for another centreback that was young that would be viewed as 3rd or 4th choice initially.
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Re: The LUFC Breakfast Debate (Wed 22 Aug)

Post by Ellandback1 »

Dalton wrote: Wed Aug 22, 2018 7:34 am Morning all,

Definitely need a centre back for many reasons. A lump like McBurnie should never be allowed to score a brace. BPF needs to work on commanding his box more as well to help combat the height problem. That all said i thought the team showed determination to keep getting back into the game and taking something from the match which never would have happened 6 months ago
Morning 007, yes great determination to get back into the game, think a slightly stronger hand would have kept Swansea's first goal out.
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Re: The LUFC Breakfast Debate (Wed 22 Aug)

Post by Ellandback1 »

Azkalwhite wrote: Wed Aug 22, 2018 8:10 am
Morning AZ, I believe Cooper and Berardi are at the moment playing to the best of their ability and fair play to Bielsa for getting it out of them, but I do believe their standards will drop at some point.

Also we are 4 games in, and we've lost Jansson and Berardi to injury, another quality centre back surely is a must. Do you not think if Jansson and Beradi had been playing together that they would have squeezed out Swansea's first goal?
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Re: The LUFC Breakfast Debate (Wed 22 Aug)

Post by Ellandback1 »

lufc1304 wrote: Wed Aug 22, 2018 8:10 am Morning Matt,

I think we are all in agreement that we another CB, we are incredibly light there as was borne out last night. Had PJ or Cooper been playing, McBurnie wouldn't have been half as effective as he was. Hope Bielsa now sees that, though he is renowned for being stubborn, so who knows. A DM to challenge for Phillips' place would be good as well, though he has been very solid up until last night.

BPF is still learning his trade to a certain extent (20-ish senior games?), and having to do so in the spotlight. Maybe that's unfair on the lad but, again, Bielsa has stated he's happy with his options there. I just hope that doesn't come back to bite us on the arse.

Having said all that, I agree with Dalton that we showed good character and resilience to come back twice against a team boasting several players who were playing in the Prem last year. And with a patched up defence. We'd have lost that game 3-0 last season. Onward we go.....
Morning 1304, you took the words right from my mouth.

A patched up defence surely is unacceptable after 4 games?
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Re: The LUFC Breakfast Debate (Wed 22 Aug)

Post by Ellandback1 »

weasel wrote: Wed Aug 22, 2018 9:11 am Who would have thought that we'd be playing Berardi and Ayling as centre backs - Square pegs in round holes for Bielsa magic?
At times all football clubs have to use a square peg in a round hole. If Cooper, PJ and Shaugnessy are all fit then a loan or permanent signing either has to be good enough to start or not good enough that they are happy enough to be on the bench. Always tricky to get the right number of players in and quite possibly at the weekend all the above 3 could be seen as fit to play. Having a back up player that is good enough to play in 3 or 4 positions is ideal as he will likely get more matches than someone who is simply back up for 1 position. Also with centrebacks you tend not to rotate them as much and not to substitute them anywhere near as much as you do with midfielders and forwards.


Swansea's goals - who was at fault?
Should Peacock Farrell have done better?

BPF should have done better but equally so should the players in front of him for the first goal.
TV commentators blaming Berardi for the second goal but I feel it was a bit harsh as it really was a superb header. Berardi probably thought he didn't need to compete for the header as the ball was going behind McBurnie but it really was a great finish and I doubt many strikers would have scored that. Perhaps a centreback might have gone for the header so it is a lesson learnt for Berardi but as a centreback you are always learning and trying to not make the same mistake which is why centrebacks tend to improve with age as the reading of the game is vastly improved and mistakes should happen less.
McBurnie was like a man possessed last night and I wonder if he plays as well against other teams. Seemed like a real pr*ck during the game but came across really well in the after match interview.


Phillips was substituted after 30 minutes, sure, he had been booked, but was it the right decision in your opinion?
Yes and Bielsa's explanation (about KP having been booked) made perfect sense too.

Was Baker's performance any better?
Baker did okay but didn't really play the KP role. He looked good in possession without looking great. Looks like he is a decent midfielder who will hopefully improve as the season continues and he gets more minutes and more used to playing in the Bielsa system.

Heading? Will Leeds come unstuck this season from set pieces due to their lack of height?
It is more about organisation I feel rather than a lack of height when defending set pieces, especially when Cooper and PJ return. Under Monk we had PJ in the right position and given a free role when defending corners. He was allowed to simply attack the area where the ball was likely to go rather than worrying about where the opposition player was. Zonal marking at corners works incredibly well if done properly as realistically there is a very small area where the ball is dangerous - concentrate on having 2 or 3 of your best headerers of the ball being able to attack the ball there and you will very rarely concede goals.

Who thinks after this defensive display that Bielsa's attention in the loanee market will be more concentrated on another central defender?
I think a lot will depend on how highly he rates Shaugnessy and how close to full fitness him, PJ and Cooper are. I wouldn't be surprised if we went for another centreback that was young that would be viewed as 3rd or 4th choice initially.
Morning Weasel, with the connections that Bielsa has, and the big pot of gold over the rainbow not being out of the question for the first time in years, surely use those connections to land either Foden or Foyth.

Indeed, Berardi should have made more of a nuisance of himself marking McBurnie, but the Swansea lad is quite a bit taller than any of our defenders, and it was one hell of a goal. The pass from the left wing to McBurnie should definitely have been defended better.

Have to say Berardi has been one of the stand out players in the last two games for me.
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Re: The LUFC Breakfast Debate (Wed 22 Aug)

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Ellandback1 wrote: Wed Aug 22, 2018 9:33 am Morning AZ, I believe Cooper and Berardi are at the moment playing to the best of their ability and fair play to Bielsa for getting it out of them, but I do believe their standards will drop at some point.

Fair point Matt, it's a long old season.

Also we are 4 games in, and we've lost Jansson and Berardi to injury, another quality centre back surely is a must. Do you not think if Jansson and Beradi had been playing together that they would have squeezed out Swansea's first goal?
I don't think you are far wrong, but it would seem Bielsa seems to have faith in Shaughnessy as sufficient back up, unless we are keeping our cards close to our chest as has been the case up to now. I may be well off the mark but have a sneaky suspicion Juan Foyth could be a possiblility
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Re: The LUFC Breakfast Debate (Wed 22 Aug)

Post by gessa »

I was a little surprised Shaugnessy didn't start last night, so we had at least 1 proper c b in there.
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Re: The LUFC Breakfast Debate (Wed 22 Aug)

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Was he in the travelling squad Ges?
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Re: The LUFC Breakfast Debate (Wed 22 Aug)

Post by gessa »

Azkalwhite wrote: Wed Aug 22, 2018 1:17 pm Was he in the travelling squad Ges?

He was one of the subs mate.
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Re: The LUFC Breakfast Debate (Wed 22 Aug)

Post by Azkal »

Perhaps should not mix Fundador with watching footy mate. Strange decision then...
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Re: The LUFC Breakfast Debate (Wed 22 Aug)

Post by Newport white »

I predicted Swansea would be full of energy and we needed to keep McBurnie quiet, unfortunately I was correct, but what a difference this season compared to last when if we conceded first we got nothing out of the game, BPF May have been better on their first goal but so could their keeper on our second, not forgetting he earned us a point with a point blank save at the death, special mention to the support that travelled from Leeds on a Tuesday, was a great atmosphere and better than most premiership teams on a Saturday according to most Swansea fans , my opinion is we are fine in midfield and up top but it is obvious we need to strengthen the back 4 ,
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Re: The LUFC Breakfast Debate (Wed 22 Aug)

Post by Cjay »

Who would have thought that we'd be playing Berardi and Ayling as centre backs - Square pegs in round holes for Bielsa magic?

I mean it didnt work, lets be honest, they were dominated by McBurnie and Ayling in particular looked out of sorts and often wandered to far forward.
1st goal we got caught out, Ayling came to narrow, left a huge gap, McBurnie wasnt tracked, not sure who was at fault there, but someone didnt track his run.
2nd goal he was stood in between Berardi and Ayling, looks like Berardi was at fault, didnt know where he was, it wasnt a good defensive display and we were dominated by another tall and physical forward, same as Rotherham and Crouch vs Stoke.

This meant moving Ayling from right back to centre back and giving a league debut to young Jamie Shackleton.
Did alright going forward, defensively not the best, can tell he isnt a natural defender, but did ok under the circumstances.

Who was at fault?

Phillips for losing the ball, Ayling for being to narrow, Berardi for not marking McBurnie, all sorts were at fault for the goals, BPF should have done better to. Imo (which may be negative) its to be expected when so many of your starting 11 are average players, Berardi, Phillips, BPF etc, there average, nothing more, they played out of there skin before but there were errors that wernt punished. Not to be to harsh on BPF he has done some good things but he is another youngster who at present is probably a bit overrated, ideally he wouldnt be number 1 imo, potential, but not good enough yet.

Phillips was substituted after 30 minutes, sure, he had been booked, but was it the right decision in your opinion?
Yes, he was a red card waiting to happen, flavor of the month atm, but he is error prone and will cost us, as he did and as he could have vs Rotherham, its not all his fault of course but mentioned before as a caution to all the Phillips praise, last season at this time Eunan O'Kane was receiving the exact same levels of praise, a few dissenting voices were told they were negative, Phillips is this seasons O'kane imo.

Was Baker's performance any better?
He was ok, but had no where near the influence Klich has had in the same role, we had to sacrifice Klich, and that was a problem and clearly highlighted the need for a better option at dm.

Heading? Will Leeds come unstuck this season from set pieces due to their lack of height?
Yes, 100% yes, same as last season, lack of height, lack of depth, you dont get promoted with those two issues imo.


Who thinks after this defensive display that Bielsa's attention in the loanee market will be more concentrated on another central defender?
Hope so, but not sure.
If we dont make the 3 signings necessary we wont be getting promoted, can only polish a turd so much.
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Re: The LUFC Breakfast Debate (Wed 22 Aug)

Post by Ellandback1 »

Azkalwhite wrote: Wed Aug 22, 2018 1:01 pm I don't think you are far wrong, but it would seem Bielsa seems to have faith in Shaughnessy as sufficient back up, unless we are keeping our cards close to our chest as has been the case up to now. I may be well off the mark but have a sneaky suspicion Juan Foyth could be a possiblility
I'd love that to happen. Rest of the Championship would be as jealous as hell...
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Re: The LUFC Breakfast Debate (Wed 22 Aug)

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gessa wrote: Wed Aug 22, 2018 1:14 pm I was a little surprised Shaugnessy didn't start last night, so we had at least 1 proper c b in there.
Shaughnessy is only just back to fitness. Literally first game back.

Suppose it was Bielsa's plan ti give him 10 mins, but we had to make changes.
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Re: The LUFC Breakfast Debate (Wed 22 Aug)

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Newport white wrote: Wed Aug 22, 2018 1:35 pm I predicted Swansea would be full of energy and we needed to keep McBurnie quiet, unfortunately I was correct, but what a difference this season compared to last when if we conceded first we got nothing out of the game, BPF May have been better on their first goal but so could their keeper on our second, not forgetting he earned us a point with a point blank save at the death, special mention to the support that travelled from Leeds on a Tuesday, was a great atmosphere and better than most premiership teams on a Saturday according to most Swansea fans , my opinion is we are fine in midfield and up top but it is obvious we need to strengthen the back 4 ,
Afternoon Newport (is that Newport on the Isle of Wight)?

According to Phil Hay, Bielsa still does not see it that we need to strengthen our defence... :shock:
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Re: The LUFC Breakfast Debate (Wed 22 Aug)

Post by Ellandback1 »

Cjay wrote: Wed Aug 22, 2018 1:44 pm Who would have thought that we'd be playing Berardi and Ayling as centre backs - Square pegs in round holes for Bielsa magic?

I mean it didnt work, lets be honest, they were dominated by McBurnie and Ayling in particular looked out of sorts and often wandered to far forward.
1st goal we got caught out, Ayling came to narrow, left a huge gap, McBurnie wasnt tracked, not sure who was at fault there, but someone didnt track his run.
2nd goal he was stood in between Berardi and Ayling, looks like Berardi was at fault, didnt know where he was, it wasnt a good defensive display and we were dominated by another tall and physical forward, same as Rotherham and Crouch vs Stoke.

This meant moving Ayling from right back to centre back and giving a league debut to young Jamie Shackleton.
Did alright going forward, defensively not the best, can tell he isnt a natural defender, but did ok under the circumstances.

Who was at fault?

Phillips for losing the ball, Ayling for being to narrow, Berardi for not marking McBurnie, all sorts were at fault for the goals, BPF should have done better to. Imo (which may be negative) its to be expected when so many of your starting 11 are average players, Berardi, Phillips, BPF etc, there average, nothing more, they played out of there skin before but there were errors that wernt punished. Not to be to harsh on BPF he has done some good things but he is another youngster who at present is probably a bit overrated, ideally he wouldnt be number 1 imo, potential, but not good enough yet.

Phillips was substituted after 30 minutes, sure, he had been booked, but was it the right decision in your opinion?
Yes, he was a red card waiting to happen, flavor of the month atm, but he is error prone and will cost us, as he did and as he could have vs Rotherham, its not all his fault of course but mentioned before as a caution to all the Phillips praise, last season at this time Eunan O'Kane was receiving the exact same levels of praise, a few dissenting voices were told they were negative, Phillips is this seasons O'kane imo.

Was Baker's performance any better?
He was ok, but had no where near the influence Klich has had in the same role, we had to sacrifice Klich, and that was a problem and clearly highlighted the need for a better option at dm.

Heading? Will Leeds come unstuck this season from set pieces due to their lack of height?
Yes, 100% yes, same as last season, lack of height, lack of depth, you dont get promoted with those two issues imo.


Who thinks after this defensive display that Bielsa's attention in the loanee market will be more concentrated on another central defender?
Hope so, but not sure.
If we dont make the 3 signings necessary we wont be getting promoted, can only polish a turd so much.
Afternoon Cjay, Ayling is a strange one, you'd think he'd be a good centre back but upon watching the highlights a few players just skipped past him on their way to our goal mouth.

Thinking out loud I wonder whether Jansson is actually injured or whether he didn't fancy a 4/5 hour bus ride down to Swansea to sit on the bench....

I bet he wished he went now...

Imagine if we had signed Bartley in the Summer, surely we would have won that game...
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