The LUFC Breakfast Debate (Wed 15th Aug)

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The LUFC Breakfast Debate (Wed 15th Aug)

Post by Ellandback1 » Wed Aug 15, 2018 7:15 am

Good Morning Everyone

Leeds battled to a well deserved 2-1 win last night, sending Bolton to their first defeat of the season.

Some talking points:-

Is Saiz back to his best? What went wrong with him after Christmas?

Does Jansson deserve a starting place on Saturday?

If yes, then at who's expense?

Harrison showed maturity well beyond his years (no wonder he is rated so highly). Should he be in the first XI?

Blackman spilled the ball which should have led to Bolton equalizing. Should he have done better?

Anyone else impressed with Pearce? Will he give Douglas a run for his money?

What about Shackleton?

Did Leeds lose their disclipline / shape in the second half?

Bamford - thoughts?




Bolton made themselves difficult to beat last night!

There will be times that neat attractive football won't work.

Can Leeds play ugly - more importantly, can they win ugly?

Is that even in Bielsa's vocabulary?




Well respected coach Darren Arnott has revealed on twitter that he is going to re join Leeds Utd.

The 31-year-old had taken up the role of assistant manager at Spanish Tercera Division Atletico Astorga in January of this year.

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Re: The LUFC Breakfast Debate (Wed 15th Aug)

Post by gessa » Wed Aug 15, 2018 7:33 am

Ellandback1 wrote:
Wed Aug 15, 2018 7:15 am
Good Morning Everyone

Leeds battled to a well deserved 2-1 win last night, sending Bolton to their first defeat of the season.

Some talking points:-

Is Saiz back to his best? What went wrong with him after Christmas?

Does Jansson deserve a starting place on Saturday?

If yes, then at who's expense?

Harrison showed maturity well beyond his years (no wonder he is rated so highly). Should he be in the first XI?

Blackman spilled the ball which should have led to Bolton equalizing. Should he have done better?

Anyone else impressed with Pearce? Will he give Douglas a run for his money?

What about Shackleton?

Did Leeds lose their disclipline / shape in the second half?

Bamford - thoughts?




Bolton made themselves difficult to beat last night!

There will be times that neat attractive football won't work.

Can Leeds play ugly - more importantly, can they win ugly?

Is that even in Bielsa's vocabulary?




Well respected coach Darren Arnott has revealed on twitter that he is going to re join Leeds Utd.

The 31-year-old had taken up the role of assistant manager at Spanish Tercera Division Atletico Astorga in January of this year.

Morning Matt,

Can only go on what I've read here and elsewhere about the games so far this season.

Saiz form was dipping, then he had the spitting incident, seemed to lose interest, the game style changed with Heck now at the helm, all in all, he wasn't the same player, don't know him but appears to be the sort of player that like his ego fed. New manager new style, one that suits him perfectly, fast paced, players running into space to recieve his passes, players now more on his wavelength adds up to the player we knew this timelast year.
Harsh on any player to be dropped from a winning team but all in all PJ is better than Berardi in that position, even though by all accounts he had a shaky start last night. Berardi should be good enough against Rotherham, so let him stay there for now, could knock him back to drop him. Wouldn't hurt PJ to sit out a few games, he does come over all superior at times, hopefully make him more humble.
Shackleton and Pearce are great back ups at the moment, ease them both in, they have plenty of time.
Bamford took his goal really well but no way can he replace Roofe at present.

Boltons style will be what we'll see as often as Stoke and Derby's, good for Biesla to see it first hand, I'm sure he'll have the system ready to suit the opposition but keep playing as we are and the class will prevail more often than not. Let them worry about us. We'll come unstuck at some point, the trick being not to let a blip become a bad run.

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Re: The LUFC Breakfast Debate (Wed 15th Aug)

Post by Richard » Wed Aug 15, 2018 7:46 am

Morning all, great result, lots of positive talking points and more importantly the players struggling to break into the first team all stepped up to the plate to stake a claim.

I know some feel the cup is a distraction but we all love a win and losing with a complete B team is one thing, losing with a strong team like last nights would have been another.

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Re: The LUFC Breakfast Debate (Wed 15th Aug)

Post by Ellandback1 » Wed Aug 15, 2018 8:49 am

gessa wrote:
Wed Aug 15, 2018 7:33 am
Morning Matt,

Can only go on what I've read here and elsewhere about the games so far this season.

Saiz form was dipping, then he had the spitting incident, seemed to lose interest, the game style changed with Heck now at the helm, all in all, he wasn't the same player, don't know him but appears to be the sort of player that like his ego fed. New manager new style, one that suits him perfectly, fast paced, players running into space to recieve his passes, players now more on his wavelength adds up to the player we knew this timelast year.
Harsh on any player to be dropped from a winning team but all in all PJ is better than Berardi in that position, even though by all accounts he had a shaky start last night. Berardi should be good enough against Rotherham, so let him stay there for now, could knock him back to drop him. Wouldn't hurt PJ to sit out a few games, he does come over all superior at times, hopefully make him more humble.
Shackleton and Pearce are great back ups at the moment, ease them both in, they have plenty of time.
Bamford took his goal really well but no way can he replace Roofe at present.

Boltons style will be what we'll see as often as Stoke and Derby's, good for Biesla to see it first hand, I'm sure he'll have the system ready to suit the opposition but keep playing as we are and the class will prevail more often than not. Let them worry about us. We'll come unstuck at some point, the trick being not to let a blip become a bad run.
Morning Gessa, another game - another victory, though tbh I saw signs of tiredness in the second half, and Leeds lost their shape.

If I can quote you from O'Leary's book. Its something like 'There are times that pretty football won't work, and you have to dig deep, show a gritty resolve and grind out a win'.

Do we have the players to grind out results?

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Re: The LUFC Breakfast Debate (Wed 15th Aug)

Post by Ellandback1 » Wed Aug 15, 2018 8:51 am

Richard wrote:
Wed Aug 15, 2018 7:46 am
Morning all, great result, lots of positive talking points and more importantly the players struggling to break into the first team all stepped up to the plate to stake a claim.

I know some feel the cup is a distraction but we all love a win and losing with a complete B team is one thing, losing with a strong team like last nights would have been another.
Morning Richard. The team Biels put out was stronger then expected. Our odds went from 4/6 to 2/5 when our team sheet came out.

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Re: The LUFC Breakfast Debate (Wed 15th Aug)

Post by Dalton » Wed Aug 15, 2018 8:53 am

May be Biels stuck a couple of Pesos on a win before announcing the team
My my my, such a lot of guns around town and so few brains

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Re: The LUFC Breakfast Debate (Wed 15th Aug)

Post by Ellandback1 » Wed Aug 15, 2018 9:17 am

Dalton wrote:
Wed Aug 15, 2018 8:53 am
May be Biels stuck a couple of Pesos on a win before announcing the team
Morning Dalton, you never know...

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Re: The LUFC Breakfast Debate (Wed 15th Aug)

Post by gessa » Wed Aug 15, 2018 10:10 am

Ellandback1 wrote:
Wed Aug 15, 2018 8:49 am

Do we have the players to grind out results?
I think Ayling,Jansson, Cooper ,Douglas, Berardi,Phillips, Dallas, Forshaw perhaps Baker have what it takes to dig in when needed. Butvyou still need the flair of the others to create when needed. We have a few that can create something out of not much.

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Re: The LUFC Breakfast Debate (Wed 15th Aug)

Post by 1964white » Wed Aug 15, 2018 10:12 am

Good morning Matt & everyone

Yes Saiz is back to his best. He lost his discipline last season with his spitting incident, gobbing off to refs, imaginary hand waving cards & generally being a little prick. Bielsa seems to eradicated many of his antics & probably turned his career around to how he should perform

All three young lads Pearce, Harrison & Shackleton showed promise for the future

Always thought Bamford would score goals as soon as he signed for Leeds, off the mark on his full debut is a good start

A special mention for the much-maligned Phillips, I thought he was outstanding last night, his passing & maturity has improved significantly since the arrival of Marcelo

I'm one of Jansson's biggest fans but right now I would stick with the same team that beat Stoke & Derby

Sometimes teams have to dig in & play ugly to win games. I suspect Bielsa's first choice XI will continue to play attractive attacking football as that is Marcelo's style of play

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Re: The LUFC Breakfast Debate (Wed 15th Aug)

Post by Ellandback1 » Wed Aug 15, 2018 10:54 am

1964white wrote:
Wed Aug 15, 2018 10:12 am
Good morning Matt & everyone

Yes Saiz is back to his best. He lost his discipline last season with his spitting incident, gobbing off to refs, imaginary hand waving cards & generally being a little prick. Bielsa seems to eradicated many of his antics & probably turned his career around to how he should perform

All three young lads Pearce, Harrison & Shackleton showed promise for the future

Always thought Bamford would score goals as soon as he signed for Leeds, off the mark on his full debut is a good start

A special mention for the much-maligned Phillips, I thought he was outstanding last night, his passing & maturity has improved significantly since the arrival of Marcelo

I'm one of Jansson's biggest fans but right now I would stick with the same team that beat Stoke & Derby

Sometimes teams have to dig in & play ugly to win games. I suspect Bielsa's first choice XI will continue to play attractive attacking football as that is Marcelo's style of play
Morning Leon, do you not think Jansson had a good game last night?

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Re: The LUFC Breakfast Debate (Wed 15th Aug)

Post by 1964white » Wed Aug 15, 2018 11:00 am

Ellandback1 wrote:
Wed Aug 15, 2018 10:54 am
Morning Leon, do you not think Jansson had a good game last night?
Shaky start Matt, thought Pontus grew into the game

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Re: The LUFC Breakfast Debate (Wed 15th Aug)

Post by Genghers » Wed Aug 15, 2018 11:13 am

Yes. I think the same thing happened to Saiz after Christmas as the rest of our squad - beaten down confidence from general mismanagement. His Dall-off was just greater.

Think Jansson is a little off full match fitness/sharpness. Not sure I'd start him on Saturday, but he has to be pushing for inclusion soon.

Harrison was impressive, but not ready for the first 11. Can see him being horrible for defenders to deal with coming off the bench for the last 15/20.

I'm yet to be convinced by Blackman tbh. That spill should have lead to a goal, and there was another he nearly dropped as well. Certainly doesn't look a significant step up from BPF.

Don't think Shackleton or Pearce are going to be taking anyone's place as it stands, but definitely not worried about them stepping in when necessary.

Bamford took his goal well and his overall game was okay, but Roofe starts for now.
Last edited by Genghers on Wed Aug 15, 2018 1:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: The LUFC Breakfast Debate (Wed 15th Aug)

Post by weasel » Wed Aug 15, 2018 12:04 pm

Is Saiz back to his best? What went wrong with him after Christmas?

Yes. There were a few things that contributed to Saiz being less influential as the season wore on. Firstly when he came into the team the other team's really didn't know much about him - after a few matches of him being brilliant he was then marked much more closely, sometimes doubled up on and as such had less time and space to play. Secondly teams saw he was a bit petulant and no doubt several managers would have told there players to get at him, i.e give him a bit of a kick, pull the shirt and just generally wind him up to put him off his game. Thirdly the whole team went off the boil and as such Saiz would no longer receive the passes quite as accurately, players wouldn't be making the runs for him to find etc. Fourthly after our good run came to an end and we had a losing run TC changed the tactics to try to make us tougher and it didn't suit Saiz as much, leading to further frustration for a player being kicked for 90 minutes by the opposition. I feel the frustration came to a head with the spitting incident. Fifthly, and this carries on from the fourth point, PH's style of play was even harder for Saiz to adapt to. He cut an isolated figure having to scrap for the ball as we played hoofball rather than passes to feet.

I had hopes that Bielsa could integrate him into his plans and am delighted that Saiz is back to being the player he is not the player that the majority of fans were suggesting we sell when the Valencia offer rumours circulated.

Does Jansson deserve a starting place on Saturday?

Deserve is probably the wrong word. He should be in the starting line-up as he is a better centreback than Berardi however for me it is not a case of his performance last night being good or bad but whether he is fully up to speed with the way Bielsa wants him to play and as such I am sure Bielsa will put him in when he feels the time is right.

Harrison showed maturity well beyond his years (no wonder he is rated so highly). Should he be in the first XI?

Not yet. Alioski and Hernandez have both done well. Like others have suggested at present he could be a great impact sub and then play when others are rested or when he forces his way in by doing so well as a sub or in a cup game.

Blackman spilled the ball which should have led to Bolton equalizing. Should he have done better?

Always tricky with keepers and the spill wasn't good. However he at least kept it out of the goal. Didn't do enough to suggest he should replace BPF yet but BPF needs to learn from his error - both keepers are very young (for keepers) and both need experience to learn and eradicate mistakes from their game.

Anyone else impressed with Pearce? Will he give Douglas a run for his money?

Can't see him displacing Douglas. Did okay but for me he would be better suited to going somewhere on loan for a year to play regularly - however that is unlikely to happen as we wouldn't have a back-up for Douglas unless DeBock can improve.

What about Shackleton?

Did well and strengthens the squad. It is the ideal scenario to have youth team players pushing for the first team rather than journeymen pros being sat on the bench.

Did Leeds lose their disclipline / shape in the second half?

Complacency and lots of it.

Bamford - thoughts?

Looked lively. Took his goal well, although missed a couple of decent chances. At present Roofe has the advantage having trained longer with Bielsa and having started the season so well. If Bamford and Roofe push each other it will be good for the team and would be happy with either of them starting.

Can Leeds play ugly - more importantly, can they win ugly?

I can't see the players being allowed to play ugly. Bielsa pointed out his unhappiness at our ugly play in the last 15 minutes v Stoke. The big question will be can we win after going behind in a game?

Is that even in Bielsa's vocabulary?

No
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Re: The LUFC Breakfast Debate (Wed 15th Aug)

Post by lufc1304 » Wed Aug 15, 2018 12:14 pm

Ellandback1 wrote:
Wed Aug 15, 2018 7:15 am
Good Morning Everyone

Leeds battled to a well deserved 2-1 win last night, sending Bolton to their first defeat of the season.

Some talking points:-

Is Saiz back to his best? What went wrong with him after Christmas? Certainly looks it from the start he's made. For me, he was frustrated by his own drop off in form and that of his team-mates. Also, his discipline was suspect, as proven by the spitting incident. He's been liberated under Bielsa, who I suspect has also told him (and Alioski) that the card waving and rolling around antics won't be tolerated

Does Jansson deserve a starting place on Saturday? Big PJ fan but no, on last night's performance, he's a little off being an automatic starter. Would be a little harsh on Berardi too, who hasn't done a lot wrong since his early wobbles against Stoke

If yes, then at who's expense?

Harrison showed maturity well beyond his years (no wonder he is rated so highly). Should he be in the first XI? Not yet. As others have pointed out, and I spotted during his cameo against Stoke, he has bags of talent but is a little undecided what to do with the ball when he has it. Probably a confidence thing, something MB will instil in him and I think, for now, he's an impact player off the bench

Blackman spilled the ball which should have led to Bolton equalizing. Should he have done better? By all accounts, yes he should. That said, he hasn't had much game time, so is maybe just a bit rusty. He's a good keeper, not sure he's any better than the solicitor,
though


Anyone else impressed with Pearce? Will he give Douglas a run for his money? I didn't see the game, but have been impressed with Pearce every time I've seen him. He's not going to displace Douglas (best LB in the Championship), but he'll be a ready made replacement should BD get hurt, suspended, lose form etc

What about Shackleton? Similar to Pearce

Did Leeds lose their disclipline / shape in the second half? It would appear so, but is perhaps understandable given the change in personnel and the limited game time some of the starting XI have had

Bamford - thoughts? Again, from reports it seems he took his goal well, had good movement but surrendered possession cheaply on a few occasions. Will have to wait for his chance with Roofe playing so well




Bolton made themselves difficult to beat last night!

There will be times that neat attractive football won't work.

Can Leeds play ugly - more importantly, can they win ugly?

Is that even in Bielsa's vocabulary? In Marcelo we trust!




Well respected coach Darren Arnott has revealed on twitter that he is going to re join Leeds Utd. Must admit, I've never heard of him

The 31-year-old had taken up the role of assistant manager at Spanish Tercera Division Atletico Astorga in January of this year.
"When the going gets weird, the weird get professional!" Hunter S Thompson

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Re: The LUFC Breakfast Debate (Wed 15th Aug)

Post by Dalton » Wed Aug 15, 2018 12:17 pm

Great read that Weasel. I had to work last night and had the wonders of Talksport 2 and Neil Redfearn to get the gist!
My my my, such a lot of guns around town and so few brains

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Re: The LUFC Breakfast Debate (Wed 15th Aug)

Post by Cjay » Wed Aug 15, 2018 1:24 pm

Is Saiz back to his best? What went wrong with him after Christmas?
Think he looks better then before, he seems to have more freedom and is finding the right passes much more then he used to. Think it helps Bielsa used to work with, and is credited by the man himself for getting the best out of Dimitri Payet. He basically transformed him, gave him the confidence and the freedom to become the player who shone for West Ham. Think Bielsa has given Saiz more freedom, he is expected to work hard, but not as much tracking back as others, so his job out of pisiton is to find the spaces and be ready to receive the ball.

Does Jansson deserve a starting place on Saturday?
Deserve, no, but he should start vs Rotherham. Clearly not match fit, he was very rusty although he improved as the game went on. We need a properly fit Jansson more then Berardi, he needs games, Rotherham is the sort of game we should be able to use him in.

Harrison showed maturity well beyond his years (no wonder he is rated so highly). Should he be in the first XI?
No, not yet, but as a back up option he looked good, clearly schooled well by Pep in pre season, needs a bit more composure, but can see him forcing his way in as the season goes on.

Anyone else impressed with Pearce? Will he give Douglas a run for his money?
Did well Pearce, but he wont be displacing Douglas, still a good back up

Blackman spilled the ball which should have led to Bolton equalizing. Should he have done better?
Yes he should, although he did come for a cross in a manner i dont think BPF would have, and he was more willing to come off the line, BPF seems rooted to it.


What about Shackleton?
Did really well, got forward well, confident on the ball, defended well to, if Aylings form drops then he could easily take his place.

Did Leeds lose their disclipline / shape in the second half?
Lack of cohesion, match fitness etc, got a bit cocky, but the important thing is we won, going to have to win ugly sometimes.

Bamford - thoughts?

PLayed well, again like Jansson probably a bit rusty and after 2 or 3 games he would probably have had a couple of goals, showed some really nice touches and composure, worked hard to, but clearly not quite ready.


Bolton made themselves difficult to beat last night!

There will be times that neat attractive football won't work.

Can Leeds play ugly - more importantly, can they win ugly?


Well thats where Bielsa earns his money, there will be teams physically stronger, more aggressive, and if this squad really are top 6 thats when they have to prove it. Have my doubts, waiting to see what happens in a few weeks at Millwall, that will tell us a lot.

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Re: The LUFC Breakfast Debate (Wed 15th Aug)

Post by Norm » Wed Aug 15, 2018 1:42 pm

I'm not going to add to this because 99% has been mentioned with erudition.
However, when mentioning last year and this year's similarities, not only have we got a smarter coach and promising youngsters, we have Klich, fully rehabilitated, eager to go and not easily knocked off the ball. I know one man doesn't make a team but that young man has the cojones, the skill and the physical and mental strength to dominate if used correctly.

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Re: The LUFC Breakfast Debate (Wed 15th Aug)

Post by Ellandback1 » Wed Aug 15, 2018 3:55 pm

Genghers wrote:
Wed Aug 15, 2018 11:13 am
Yes. I think the same thing happened to Saiz after Christmas as the rest of our squad - beaten down confidence from general mismanagement. His Dall-off was just greater.

Think Jansson is a little off full match fitness/sharpness. Not sure I'd start him on Saturday, but he has to be pushing for inclusion soon.

Harrison was impressive, but not ready for the first 11. Can see him being horrible for defenders to deal with coming off the bench for the last 15/20.

I'm yet to be convinced by Blackman tbh. That spill should have lead to a goal, and there was another he nearly dropped as well. Certainly doesn't look a significant step up from BPF.

Don't think Shackleton or Pearce are going to be taking anyone's place as it stands, but definitely not worried about them stepping in when necessary.

Bamford took his goal well and his overall game was okay, but Roofe starts for now.
Afternoon Genghers, Harrison has a massive future ahead of him.

If Blackman, I'm wondering whether he was unsighted with the ball he spilled.

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Re: The LUFC Breakfast Debate (Wed 15th Aug)

Post by Ellandback1 » Wed Aug 15, 2018 3:58 pm

weasel wrote:
Wed Aug 15, 2018 12:04 pm
Is Saiz back to his best? What went wrong with him after Christmas?

Yes. There were a few things that contributed to Saiz being less influential as the season wore on. Firstly when he came into the team the other team's really didn't know much about him - after a few matches of him being brilliant he was then marked much more closely, sometimes doubled up on and as such had less time and space to play. Secondly teams saw he was a bit petulant and no doubt several managers would have told there players to get at him, i.e give him a bit of a kick, pull the shirt and just generally wind him up to put him off his game. Thirdly the whole team went off the boil and as such Saiz would no longer receive the passes quite as accurately, players wouldn't be making the runs for him to find etc. Fourthly after our good run came to an end and we had a losing run TC changed the tactics to try to make us tougher and it didn't suit Saiz as much, leading to further frustration for a player being kicked for 90 minutes by the opposition. I feel the frustration came to a head with the spitting incident. Fifthly, and this carries on from the fourth point, PH's style of play was even harder for Saiz to adapt to. He cut an isolated figure having to scrap for the ball as we played hoofball rather than passes to feet.

I had hopes that Bielsa could integrate him into his plans and am delighted that Saiz is back to being the player he is not the player that the majority of fans were suggesting we sell when the Valencia offer rumours circulated.

Does Jansson deserve a starting place on Saturday?

Deserve is probably the wrong word. He should be in the starting line-up as he is a better centreback than Berardi however for me it is not a case of his performance last night being good or bad but whether he is fully up to speed with the way Bielsa wants him to play and as such I am sure Bielsa will put him in when he feels the time is right.

Harrison showed maturity well beyond his years (no wonder he is rated so highly). Should he be in the first XI?

Not yet. Alioski and Hernandez have both done well. Like others have suggested at present he could be a great impact sub and then play when others are rested or when he forces his way in by doing so well as a sub or in a cup game.

Blackman spilled the ball which should have led to Bolton equalizing. Should he have done better?

Always tricky with keepers and the spill wasn't good. However he at least kept it out of the goal. Didn't do enough to suggest he should replace BPF yet but BPF needs to learn from his error - both keepers are very young (for keepers) and both need experience to learn and eradicate mistakes from their game.

Anyone else impressed with Pearce? Will he give Douglas a run for his money?

Can't see him displacing Douglas. Did okay but for me he would be better suited to going somewhere on loan for a year to play regularly - however that is unlikely to happen as we wouldn't have a back-up for Douglas unless DeBock can improve.

What about Shackleton?

Did well and strengthens the squad. It is the ideal scenario to have youth team players pushing for the first team rather than journeymen pros being sat on the bench.

Did Leeds lose their disclipline / shape in the second half?

Complacency and lots of it.

Bamford - thoughts?

Looked lively. Took his goal well, although missed a couple of decent chances. At present Roofe has the advantage having trained longer with Bielsa and having started the season so well. If Bamford and Roofe push each other it will be good for the team and would be happy with either of them starting.

Can Leeds play ugly - more importantly, can they win ugly?

I can't see the players being allowed to play ugly. Bielsa pointed out his unhappiness at our ugly play in the last 15 minutes v Stoke. The big question will be can we win after going behind in a game?

Is that even in Bielsa's vocabulary?

No
Afternoon Weasel, regarding playing ugly, its the Championship. Look at the kind of players we used the last time we went up to the promised land.

Kammy

Vinnie

Baird

Blake

A young Batty

We used to batter our opposition.

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Re: The LUFC Breakfast Debate (Wed 15th Aug)

Post by Ellandback1 » Wed Aug 15, 2018 4:11 pm

lufc1304 wrote:
Wed Aug 15, 2018 12:14 pm
Evening 1304, I'm with you regarding Blackman. He comes across more self assured in his area too....

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