Bielsa ball needs height.

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Cjay
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Bielsa ball needs height.

Post by Cjay » Mon Jul 23, 2018 2:10 pm

Bits of this ive stolen from elsewhere, other peoples work.

Last season we were 17th in the league for aerial duels won.

LUFC data said Leeds have now conceded a whopping 42% of their goals originating from dead-ball situations (including throw-ins) across all competitions this season (27/64). That is the EIGHTH Leeds have goal conceded from corner set-pieces in 2017/18. Achilles heal. #LUFC

I didnt know this but apparently Huddersfield when they got promoted using the high press to great effect had the tallest team in the league.

Other teams who use a similar style to Bielsa have a defence or holding midfield full of height and power.

Spurs have 6fters Eric Dier, Victor Wanyama, Moussa Dembele all sitting infront of the defence.

Then behind them 3 strapping 6fters Davinson Sanchez, Toby Alderweiwald, Jan Vertonghen.

Manchester City have.
6fters Aymeric Laporte, Vincent Kompany, John Stones.

Different level of course but they also very rarely get caught out because there high press and quality on the ball means teams rarely get a chance to get it forward.

If they do get it back and launch it forward to avoid the press then they are battling with big, strong tough cbs and midfielders and in all likelihood will lose the ball and City and Spurs come again.

We will lose the ball more, our high press wont work as well and teams will get opportunity to avoid our press with a good old hoof.

That is the biggest threat to a high press, the good old hoof , striker wins the 1st ball team pick up the 2nd, half our team is up the other end.

It makes it absolutely vital that you dont lose the 1st ball, you either win it back by strength or you win the 1st header and the holding midfielder is there to pick up the 2nd and your off again.

Now the worrying bit.

Liam Cooper and Gaetano Berardi, so far our most used cb pairing and apparently one Bielsa likes.

Divisive figures.

But are they going to do what we need as mentioned above?

History tells us not.

Liam Cooper- There are only 2 cbs who won less headers then Liam Cooper last season, he placed apparently 67th out of 69 out of Championship cbs.

Gaetano Berardi- A short right back, he was even worse, he won just 1.7 headers a game.

Now yes we have Pontus Jansson, but the above stats about our goals conceded and 17th in headers won was done with Pontus in the side, he makes a difference but clearly not enough, he is just 1 man.

Its become a bit of a joke. "Ooo imagine Peter Crouch vs Berardi at corners".

"Haha Liam Cooper challenging Crouch for headers".

But as it stands one of those is a distinct possibility.

Crouch imo is one of the most underrated strikers of the last 20 years.

Not the most prolific but decent record at the highest level and always a handful because of his height and touch.

Even at 37 he is a real threat.

If we play Cooper or Berardi at cb and Rowett doesnt play Crouch then he is an idiot,Crouch will win every header, every knockdown.

We can not go into this season with such a lack of height and muscle in our team.

Even top class sides who play our style arent stupid/ arrogant enough to think "we dont need powerful tall players in defence, we will always win back the ball so no hoofs to deal with".

This is a league where big tall average strikers like Gary Madine, Leon Clarke and Steve Morison are considered decent, and all 3 caused our defence including Jansson huge issues last season when we were using the high press under TC.

Our defence can not cope in its present state with a long hoof or a set piece, if our club, Bielsa included cant see this then this season will be a non starter from the get go.

We need at least 1 big tall cb or BielsaBall will fall apart because of tall strikers like Peter Crouch.

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Re: Bielsa ball needs height.

Post by 1964white » Mon Jul 23, 2018 3:38 pm

I got shot down when I raised this issue on height

I know I'm not wrong as I witnessed it with my own eyes in the majority of games last season

Southend could have scored three or four had they been more clinical, the same poor defending will arise again against better clubs in the championship if we don't address this problem

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Re: Bielsa ball needs height.

Post by Cjay » Wed Aug 01, 2018 11:51 am

Coming back to this.

Last season TC tried to pass his way out of the league and we were bullied.

This season Bielsa will try to pass and press his way out of the league.

Why will there be a different result?

I understand Bielsa may be a better coach and stuff but he is notoriously stubborn and single minded.

Trying to think positive but can we really expect a different result just because of Bielsa when the spine of the team will be almost the same and the squad will still have the same deficiencies as last season?

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Re: Bielsa ball needs height.

Post by Muppet the Cat » Wed Aug 01, 2018 12:10 pm

Cjay wrote:
Wed Aug 01, 2018 11:51 am
Coming back to this.

Last season TC tried to pass his way out of the league and we were bullied.

This season Bielsa will try to pass and press his way out of the league.

Why will there be a different result?

I understand Bielsa may be a better coach and stuff but he is notoriously stubborn and single minded.

Trying to think positive but can we really expect a different result just because of Bielsa when the spine of the team will be almost the same and the squad will still have the same deficiencies as last season?
Wasn't it Einstein that said "insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.” ?? :duno:

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Re: Bielsa ball needs height.

Post by Chilli D » Wed Aug 01, 2018 12:31 pm

Still can't believe we didn't buy Aden Flint from Bristol City.
No idea what sort of wages he is on at Boro but he didn't go there for silly money (6 million, I think)
He was the best central defender in the championship last season IMO and scored a few goals as well

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Re: Bielsa ball needs height.

Post by Cjay » Wed Aug 01, 2018 12:43 pm

Muppet the Cat wrote:
Wed Aug 01, 2018 12:10 pm
Wasn't it Einstein that said "insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.” ?? :duno:
Exactly.

All we have done is bring in a coach who may be better but doesnt fix the fundamental flaws in our squad that ruined last season.

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Re: Bielsa ball needs height.

Post by faaip » Wed Aug 01, 2018 12:44 pm

I think he was defensively suspect from reports but can't argue the threat he gives you at set pieces
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Re: Bielsa ball needs height.

Post by Cjay » Wed Aug 01, 2018 12:54 pm

We all agreed what went wrong last season.

Bullied to often by physical teams.

Bielsa doesnt change that, the current additions to the squad dont change that.

Result will be the same imo unless the club wake up and recognise this.

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Re: Bielsa ball needs height.

Post by 1964white » Wed Aug 01, 2018 5:23 pm

Cjay wrote:
Wed Aug 01, 2018 12:54 pm
We all agreed what went wrong last season.

Bullied to often by physical teams.

Bielsa doesnt change that, the current additions to the squad dont change that.

Result will be the same imo unless the club wake up and recognise this.
Pontus is a giant
Cooper is tall but.....
Ayling is tall & physically strong
Klich & Baker are six-footers, both gives us height in midfield for the first time in ages, Klich also physical too.
Bamford is a six-footer
Dallas is also a six-footer
Phillips although only 5'9" is very muscular but needs to toughen up
Peacock-Farrell is 6'4"
Blackman is 6'6"
Pearce is a tall lad
Edmondson is massive, unsure of his height, built like a brickhouse though

So that is eleven players over 6'0" who all could feature in our matchday squad

Saiz, Roofe, Alioski & Berardi could all end up the bench so it's not looking too much of a problem anymore

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Re: Bielsa ball needs height.

Post by Cjay » Wed Aug 01, 2018 5:40 pm

1964white wrote:
Wed Aug 01, 2018 5:23 pm
Pontus is a giant
Cooper is tall but.....
Ayling is tall & physically strong
Klich & Baker are six-footers, both gives us height in midfield for the first time in ages, Klich also physical too.
Bamford is a six-footer
Dallas is also a six-footer
Phillips although only 5'9" is very muscular but needs to toughen up
Peacock-Farrell is 6'4"
Blackman is 6'6"
Pearce is a tall lad
Edmondson is massive, unsure of his height, built like a brickhouse though

So that is eleven players over 6'0" who all could feature in our matchday squad

Saiz, Roofe, Alioski & Berardi could all end up the bench so it's not looking too much of a problem anymore
Highlighted players are ones who are squad at hest imo.

I hope your right.

Be much happier with a tall cb, tall dm.

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Re: Bielsa ball needs height.

Post by faaip » Wed Aug 01, 2018 5:47 pm

Cooper is 6 foot which is below average these days for a CD
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Re: Bielsa ball needs height.

Post by faaip » Wed Aug 01, 2018 5:50 pm

Of those most were here last season, Forshaw also 6'....so last season we weren't small 64?
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Re: Bielsa ball needs height.

Post by 1964white » Wed Aug 01, 2018 6:44 pm

faaip wrote:
Wed Aug 01, 2018 5:50 pm
Of those most were here last season, Forshaw also 6'....so last season we weren't small 64?
I didn't realise Forshaw was a six-footer, tbf he only joined Leeds in January & was in & out of the team with injuries.

Ayling missed the last four months of the season

Out of the ones I mentioned who are six-foot plus only Jansson, Cooper & Dallas played regularly so yes we were a very small team for large parts of the season

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Re: Bielsa ball needs height.

Post by Norm » Sun Aug 05, 2018 6:53 pm

I hope we were tall enough today - was Saiz on stilts perhaps?
In fairness there was enough height from Klich to complement him.
Give me a team with bite, fitness and heart any day, even if they're not all 6ft plus.

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Re: Bielsa ball needs height.

Post by dezzy » Sun Aug 05, 2018 6:58 pm

We don’t look small at all, add a 6’7 keeper in to that side and I would imagine our average height to be above that of most sides?
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Re: Bielsa ball needs height.

Post by weasel » Sun Aug 05, 2018 8:14 pm

Very peculiar that Stoke didn't start with Crouch today. Everyone seemed to know that we were lacking height at the back yet Stoke kept him on the bench.
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Re: Bielsa ball needs height.

Post by SG90 » Sun Aug 05, 2018 8:33 pm

I thought we dealt well with the Crouch threat and there won't be anyone taller than him this season.

The real threat will be the Millwalls, Prestons, Ipswichs etc that try and kick us off the pitch. The good thing is Saiz and Alioski seemed to get straight back up, apparently Bielsa doesn't want any moaning to the ref.

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Re: Bielsa ball needs height.

Post by Cjay » Sun Aug 05, 2018 8:53 pm

Havent changed my mind on what i wrote.

Surprised they didnt start Crouch tbh, he would have won every header and those aimless hoofs toward Afobe may have been something different.

Very happy though :)

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Re: Bielsa ball needs height.

Post by Norm » Mon Aug 06, 2018 7:29 am

For everything you suppose could have happened, you don't know that it would have been that way - this is football and it depends who turns up and what mood they're in. There's nothing predictable about it.
For everything that 'may have been', 'it wasn't' and we did a fabulous job with our 3'2" dwarfs. Your conjecture about what Crouch could have done is just that - conjecture - and he had an off-day, just like we had an 'on-day' - nothing whatsoever to do with height.
I'm glad you're happy - it sometimes seems that certain posters want us to fail to prove themselves right.

Bremner, Giles, Strachan and Batty send you their regards.

Bielsa has instilled some balls into this lot and I can only hope that they respond accordingly in future games.

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Re: Bielsa ball needs height.

Post by Chilli D » Mon Aug 06, 2018 8:01 am

In my opinion height is only ever an issue when defending set pieces.
Norm has already mentioned some of our best ever players but three of the best players of all time Pele, Messi and Maradonna (before he hit the marching powder) are all small. I doubt any of them were ever left out of a side because of their height.
If sides want to hoof it into our area, let them, PJ will lap up once he's back in the side.

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