The LUFC Breakfast Debate (Thur 14 June)

For everything Leeds United related and everything not - Have your say... the Marching on Together way!
Forum rules
Please be sure you are acquainted with the forum rules outlined within our FAQs.
User avatar
Ellandback1
First Team
First Team
Posts: 1280
Joined: Sat Mar 24, 2018 3:01 pm
Twitter: @EllandBack1

The LUFC Breakfast Debate (Thur 14 June)

Post by Ellandback1 » Thu Jun 14, 2018 7:14 am

Good Morning Everyone

Popey revealed yesterday at 4.30pm that team Bielsa were in fact waiting for Leeds Utd to approve the argentinian's latest draft.

We don't know whats on the draft or whether or not team Radrizzani have countered Bielsa's counter!

What we do know is that all those journo's claiming to be in the know, are fibbers <yikes>

You may recall that on Monday Orta ordered the players to return to Thorp Arch early (18 June). This has now reverted back to the original date of 25th June.





We are all aware of Bielsa's positive relationship with Pep Guardiola. Should the final wrinkles be ironed out, do we asume that half of Citeh's reserves will be playing at Elland Road next season?

Do we care how we go up, as lomg as we do?





It loks like Boro are favourites to land Stoke central defender Robert Huth. The 33 yo ex German International has also been on Leeds radar in recent times.

Leeds remain favourites to land Citeh keeper Angus Gunn and Posh forward Jack Marriott.





Carpi are still confident that Leeds will buy Jerry Mbakogu. Their President was quoted as saying:-

“We are waiting for June 30th to complete the operation. In principle there will be no surprises, next year he will be at Leeds.”




Pick a Chairman. (From best to worst, and your reasons)

Bates

Ridsdale

GFH

Silver

Cellino

Radrizzani (on current form)

User avatar
faaip
Superstar
Superstar
Posts: 24463
Joined: Wed Mar 24, 2010 10:03 am
Location: God's own county

Re: The LUFC Breakfast Debate (Thur 14 June)

Post by faaip » Thu Jun 14, 2018 8:53 am

Silver

Radrizzani (on current form)

Cellino

Bates

Ridsdale



















GFH
"Stepping out to Angellucci's for my coffee beans
Checking out the movies and the magazines
Waitress she watches me crossing from the Barocco Bar"

User avatar
faaip
Superstar
Superstar
Posts: 24463
Joined: Wed Mar 24, 2010 10:03 am
Location: God's own county

Re: The LUFC Breakfast Debate (Thur 14 June)

Post by faaip » Thu Jun 14, 2018 9:01 am

Don't want a team full of loanees unless we get guarantees we get an option to purchase as well.

Huth is getting on a bit don't really care if he arrives or not

We don't know what's happening with Biesla, this demanding his own terms and writing his own contract could be c**k and bull tbf. I think our chances of promotion under Biesla would be around 20% first season, I don't see him here a second. It could work if we can guarantee his assistant would stay and continue his plan. Otherwise new manager in 19 and start from scratch again
"Stepping out to Angellucci's for my coffee beans
Checking out the movies and the magazines
Waitress she watches me crossing from the Barocco Bar"

User avatar
Ellandback1
First Team
First Team
Posts: 1280
Joined: Sat Mar 24, 2018 3:01 pm
Twitter: @EllandBack1

Re: The LUFC Breakfast Debate (Thur 14 June)

Post by Ellandback1 » Thu Jun 14, 2018 9:10 am

faaip wrote:
Thu Jun 14, 2018 8:53 am
Silver

Radrizzani (on current form)

Cellino

Bates

Ridsdale


















GFH
Morning Faaip, interesting that you have Bates above Ridsdale. To my way of thinking Ridsdale always tried and do the right thing with Leeds.

Yes, Ridsdale made mistakes, but he owned those mistakes. Although ultimately the decisions that ere made were his, they were all agreed by the board. We are all aware of the fish tank saga and the Seth Johnson transfer just reeked of desperation. Had we finished above Liverpool that year, things could have been completely different for us. For me, selling Macca to Liverpool that season was the difference between 3rd and 4th place. I can recall him scoring last minute goals for the Pool on multiple occasions. Had he not, we would have finished 3rd.

DOL with his (so called) illegal dealings with agents costing the club multi millions of pounds, and his Bowyer / Woodgate book didn't do our club any favours either.

User avatar
Ellandback1
First Team
First Team
Posts: 1280
Joined: Sat Mar 24, 2018 3:01 pm
Twitter: @EllandBack1

Re: The LUFC Breakfast Debate (Thur 14 June)

Post by Ellandback1 » Thu Jun 14, 2018 9:11 am

faaip wrote:
Thu Jun 14, 2018 9:01 am
Don't want a team full of loanees unless we get guarantees we get an option to purchase as well.

Huth is getting on a bit don't really care if he arrives or not

We don't know what's happening with Biesla, this demanding his own terms and writing his own contract could be c**k and bull tbf. I think our chances of promotion under Biesla would be around 20% first season, I don't see him here a second. It could work if we can guarantee his assistant would stay and continue his plan. Otherwise new manager in 19 and start from scratch again
Sensible or not but I believe a one year deal (at least preliminary) had been agreed.

User avatar
1964white
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 64022
Joined: Tue Mar 30, 2010 8:46 am
Twitter: @1964white

Re: The LUFC Breakfast Debate (Thur 14 June)

Post by 1964white » Thu Jun 14, 2018 10:32 am

Good morning Matt

Please can I leave it at Leslie Silver for now

We've achieved zilch under the rest of them

User avatar
hector
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 4158
Joined: Mon Jul 30, 2012 5:57 am
Location: Salisbury

Re: The LUFC Breakfast Debate (Thur 14 June)

Post by hector » Thu Jun 14, 2018 10:35 am

Morning Matt, why isn't Manny cousins on the list?? ;-)

:)
:tup: “And then one day you find ten years have got behind you.” :wink:

User avatar
Ellandback1
First Team
First Team
Posts: 1280
Joined: Sat Mar 24, 2018 3:01 pm
Twitter: @EllandBack1

Re: The LUFC Breakfast Debate (Thur 14 June)

Post by Ellandback1 » Thu Jun 14, 2018 10:44 am

1964white wrote:
Thu Jun 14, 2018 10:32 am
Good morning Matt

Please can I leave it at Leslie Silver for now

We've achieved zilch under the rest of them
Morning Leon,

Lost for words???

Surely not :shock: :shock: :shock:

User avatar
Ellandback1
First Team
First Team
Posts: 1280
Joined: Sat Mar 24, 2018 3:01 pm
Twitter: @EllandBack1

Re: The LUFC Breakfast Debate (Thur 14 June)

Post by Ellandback1 » Thu Jun 14, 2018 10:45 am

hector wrote:
Thu Jun 14, 2018 10:35 am
Morning Matt, why isn't Manny cousins on the list?? ;-)

:)
Morning Hector.

Was Cousins before Silver?

User avatar
hector
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 4158
Joined: Mon Jul 30, 2012 5:57 am
Location: Salisbury

Re: The LUFC Breakfast Debate (Thur 14 June)

Post by hector » Thu Jun 14, 2018 11:33 am

Cousins was in the 70's

Mornin Matt
:tup: “And then one day you find ten years have got behind you.” :wink:

Cjay
Superstar
Superstar
Posts: 5320
Joined: Tue Aug 01, 2017 3:01 pm

Re: The LUFC Breakfast Debate (Thur 14 June)

Post by Cjay » Thu Jun 14, 2018 11:53 am

Update from Guillem Balague (one of the few id believe).

Not true Bielsa has work permit as that will come when/if he signs contract that is now in his brother's hands, a top level lawyer in communication with Leeds. Club very hopeful of things moving positively but no timetable to when confirmation (or the opposite) will take place.

What it is true is that he is consulted on the transfer movements of the club which, whatever eventually happens, is a great way to tease him! #LUFC

User avatar
Ellandback1
First Team
First Team
Posts: 1280
Joined: Sat Mar 24, 2018 3:01 pm
Twitter: @EllandBack1

Re: The LUFC Breakfast Debate (Thur 14 June)

Post by Ellandback1 » Thu Jun 14, 2018 11:57 am

Cjay wrote:
Thu Jun 14, 2018 11:53 am
Update from Guillem Balague (one of the few id believe).

Not true Bielsa has work permit as that will come when/if he signs contract that is now in his brother's hands, a top level lawyer in communication with Leeds. Club very hopeful of things moving positively but no timetable to when confirmation (or the opposite) will take place.

What it is true is that he is consulted on the transfer movements of the club which, whatever eventually happens, is a great way to tease him! #LUFC
Afternoon Cjay

LATEST


Phil Hay‏@PhilHayYEP
To give you an example: message from Bielsa's camp yesterday morning said it was at yes or no stage.

Bielsa had made his amendments and was waiting for an answer. Salary not in dispute. But the chances are, Leeds will go back with amendments of their own. It's constantly moving.



Phil, do you have any examples of the type of requests going back and forth ? Particular players wanted, budget for players, back staff etc



Phil Hay‏@PhilHayYEP
All I've been told is methods of working, which I think we can deduce means the way in which the club would operate under him and his levels of authority within in the current structure.



Phil Hay‏@PhilHayYEP
Bielsa knows the structure of Thorp Arch and has been talking about modifications to it.

User avatar
faaip
Superstar
Superstar
Posts: 24463
Joined: Wed Mar 24, 2010 10:03 am
Location: God's own county

Re: The LUFC Breakfast Debate (Thur 14 June)

Post by faaip » Thu Jun 14, 2018 12:08 pm

Biesla had Lille build bungalows for the players to stay in for extended periods, basic affairs, one room do it all things with a communal games area for TV, Table Tennis etc...he could be looking at something like that. which tbh is a waste of money and won't be ready for this off season anyway. Could see that rubbing a few players up the wrong way, those with families to start with
"Stepping out to Angellucci's for my coffee beans
Checking out the movies and the magazines
Waitress she watches me crossing from the Barocco Bar"

User avatar
1964white
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 64022
Joined: Tue Mar 30, 2010 8:46 am
Twitter: @1964white

Re: The LUFC Breakfast Debate (Thur 14 June)

Post by 1964white » Thu Jun 14, 2018 12:09 pm

Ellandback1 wrote:
Thu Jun 14, 2018 10:44 am
Morning Leon,

Lost for words???

Surely not :shock: :shock: :shock:
Last time we won a trophy was under Silver, the First Division title :)

User avatar
Ellandback1
First Team
First Team
Posts: 1280
Joined: Sat Mar 24, 2018 3:01 pm
Twitter: @EllandBack1

Re: The LUFC Breakfast Debate (Thur 14 June)

Post by Ellandback1 » Thu Jun 14, 2018 1:38 pm

Italian media reporting that Brescia, owned by one M Cellino, want to sign Marcus Antonsson.

They have been interest in him for a while.

Leeds eager to move both him and Cibicki on.

They will be allowed to leave regardless of the Managerial situation.

Cjay
Superstar
Superstar
Posts: 5320
Joined: Tue Aug 01, 2017 3:01 pm

Re: The LUFC Breakfast Debate (Thur 14 June)

Post by Cjay » Thu Jun 14, 2018 1:59 pm

Ellandback1 wrote:
Thu Jun 14, 2018 11:57 am
Afternoon Cjay

LATEST


Phil Hay‏@PhilHayYEP
To give you an example: message from Bielsa's camp yesterday morning said it was at yes or no stage.

Bielsa had made his amendments and was waiting for an answer. Salary not in dispute. But the chances are, Leeds will go back with amendments of their own. It's constantly moving.



Phil, do you have any examples of the type of requests going back and forth ? Particular players wanted, budget for players, back staff etc



Phil Hay‏@PhilHayYEP
All I've been told is methods of working, which I think we can deduce means the way in which the club would operate under him and his levels of authority within in the current structure.



Phil Hay‏@PhilHayYEP
Bielsa knows the structure of Thorp Arch and has been talking about modifications to it.
Still wouldn't be surprised to see it not be Bielsa.

Interestingly, if he becomes our manager there is a post on another clubs forum which I'll post which should cheer some of the doubters (myself included) up.

Its one of the best ive seen in defence of Bielsa and warms the heart.

User avatar
Ellandback1
First Team
First Team
Posts: 1280
Joined: Sat Mar 24, 2018 3:01 pm
Twitter: @EllandBack1

Re: The LUFC Breakfast Debate (Thur 14 June)

Post by Ellandback1 » Thu Jun 14, 2018 2:13 pm

Cjay wrote:
Thu Jun 14, 2018 1:59 pm
Still wouldn't be surprised to see it not be Bielsa.

Interestingly, if he becomes our manager there is a post on another clubs forum which I'll post which should cheer some of the doubters (myself included) up.

Its one of the best ive seen in defence of Bielsa and warms the heart.
Do tell....

Cjay
Superstar
Superstar
Posts: 5320
Joined: Tue Aug 01, 2017 3:01 pm

Re: The LUFC Breakfast Debate (Thur 14 June)

Post by Cjay » Thu Jun 14, 2018 3:03 pm

Ellandback1 wrote:
Thu Jun 14, 2018 2:13 pm
Do tell....
He's very demanding and I think that goes against him as well as for him.

Ancelotti was out of work up until recently, I'll assume you'd take him?

Agree his tendency to leave when things don't go his way is concerning and not what Aston Villa need at this point in time. That said we don't know what transpired each time he decided to call it a day, his reasons could be noble for all we know or care.

You choose not to mention the records he set with Chile or his two cup finals with Bilbao, beating United in both legs en route to lose to Atletico Madrid in the Europa League final, and Barcelona in the Copa Del Rey. His record at Argentina isn't even all that bad, one defining loss to an England team which featured some of the country's greats.

He had a relatively easy run in the Copa Del Rey but overcame Schalke and Sporting as well as United in the Europa League. Better than MON could do for us.

It's the stories I've read and the philosophy, tactics and attention to detail that make me think he's a great coach. He plays a pressing, attacking, possession based brand of football that is extremely demanding of his players tactically, physically, mentally and technically. You don't need to take my or Guardiola's word for it. There are a number of places you will find him labelled a genius. Guardiola says that titles aren't a factor when he addresses Bielsa as the best,  and when you've been an influence to managers like Guardiola, Simeone and Pochettino you see that he has offered the game more than silverware.

For me though it's the way he approaches the game. It's exactly what I'm looking for in a coach of any team sport. Adept in what has come before him and influential in his own brand that he has crafted. Not to mention he is obviously good with people too. It's easy to look at his nickname and club departures and assume he's a nut, but I can't imagine you've taken the time to look in to either, as if you had explored Bielsa you would find the reasons as to why I and many others praise him.

You say he hasn't got a job, what manager have we had since Houllier that can boast the likes of Argentina, Chile, Bilbao, Marseille, Lazio and Lille? Not even MON competes with that.

People want to mention money. Look at what Bruce spent.

Bielsa brought in Bilbao's highest scoring striker for the last 6 years for a total sum of.. 2.5milliion. He averages 24 goals a season over that 6 years.

His squad that took them to two cup finals consisted of 16 out of 29 players being either youth products, free transfers or deals under 300,000!! He had 7.5million to bring in Ander Herrera. They also finished 10th in La Liga with this squad. 16 out of 29 players for under 300k a pop. Two cup finals, 10th in La Liga.

He also has the quality to coach and influence the likes of Pochettino, Alexis Sanchez, Medel, Vidal, Llorente (scored 29 goals under him), Javi Martinez (got a move to Bayern). You can see the qualities and philosophy of Bielsa's coaching in each of their games.

Not to mention the way he treats the press and his philosophy regarding youth:

"Bielsa likes to systematise the game. He says that there are 29 distinct formations in football and believes that every young player should be given the opportunity to experience each of them. [45]

Fernando Llorente, who played under Bielsa at Athletic Bilbao, said of his former coach, "At first he seems tough and he may even annoy you with his persistence and don't-take-no-for-an-answer resilience, but in the end he is a genius."[46] Former Argentina National Team Striker Gabriel Batistuta proclaimed about Bielsa 'he was the one who taught me how to train on rainy days, he taught me everything[47]

Manchester City player Benjamin Mendy cited for his improvement under Bielsa at Marseille, Mendy claimed Bielsa had "given back to him the strength and aggressiveness lost last year."[48][49] His teammate Aymeric Laporte who was given his debut by Bielsa at Athletic Bilbao, described him as a 'mentor' figure.[50]

As Bielsa refuses to grant exclusive interviews, the press conference has become his preferred method of communication. He has been known to field every last question from the assembled media during these gatherings. If the talk turns to the intricacies of the game, a three- or even four-hour press conference is possible. According to him, "Every media should get the same attention from me, from the biggest TV station to the smallest newspaper."

I'm just getting started, but I'm going to leave it there for now. What you should really be interested in though is analysis of his formations, tactics and philosophy. That is where he has made a name for himself and where he has gone on to influence the likes mentioned above.

I can post some videos if anyone is interested.

All that aside, aren't we looking for someone a who's going to demand a lot from the group we have, and with some of Bielsa's philosophies I might even suggest someone who will embrace the sort of challenges that face us as a club.

Bielsa or Bruce?

I'm more amazed that Bielsa has put himself in the discussion than I am that someone would suggest Bruce is the superior choice.

danhirons
Subs Bench
Subs Bench
Posts: 982
Joined: Tue Jan 14, 2014 11:21 pm

Re: The LUFC Breakfast Debate (Thur 14 June)

Post by danhirons » Thu Jun 14, 2018 3:20 pm

While I'd take either of them....

Bruce knows the championship like the back of his hand...

Bielsa doesn't even talk English.

User avatar
Ellandback1
First Team
First Team
Posts: 1280
Joined: Sat Mar 24, 2018 3:01 pm
Twitter: @EllandBack1

Re: The LUFC Breakfast Debate (Thur 14 June)

Post by Ellandback1 » Thu Jun 14, 2018 4:57 pm

Cjay wrote:
Thu Jun 14, 2018 3:03 pm
He's very demanding and I think that goes against him as well as for him.

Ancelotti was out of work up until recently, I'll assume you'd take him?

Agree his tendency to leave when things don't go his way is concerning and not what Aston Villa need at this point in time. That said we don't know what transpired each time he decided to call it a day, his reasons could be noble for all we know or care.

You choose not to mention the records he set with Chile or his two cup finals with Bilbao, beating United in both legs en route to lose to Atletico Madrid in the Europa League final, and Barcelona in the Copa Del Rey. His record at Argentina isn't even all that bad, one defining loss to an England team which featured some of the country's greats.

He had a relatively easy run in the Copa Del Rey but overcame Schalke and Sporting as well as United in the Europa League. Better than MON could do for us.

It's the stories I've read and the philosophy, tactics and attention to detail that make me think he's a great coach. He plays a pressing, attacking, possession based brand of football that is extremely demanding of his players tactically, physically, mentally and technically. You don't need to take my or Guardiola's word for it. There are a number of places you will find him labelled a genius. Guardiola says that titles aren't a factor when he addresses Bielsa as the best,  and when you've been an influence to managers like Guardiola, Simeone and Pochettino you see that he has offered the game more than silverware.

For me though it's the way he approaches the game. It's exactly what I'm looking for in a coach of any team sport. Adept in what has come before him and influential in his own brand that he has crafted. Not to mention he is obviously good with people too. It's easy to look at his nickname and club departures and assume he's a nut, but I can't imagine you've taken the time to look in to either, as if you had explored Bielsa you would find the reasons as to why I and many others praise him.

You say he hasn't got a job, what manager have we had since Houllier that can boast the likes of Argentina, Chile, Bilbao, Marseille, Lazio and Lille? Not even MON competes with that.

People want to mention money. Look at what Bruce spent.

Bielsa brought in Bilbao's highest scoring striker for the last 6 years for a total sum of.. 2.5milliion. He averages 24 goals a season over that 6 years.

His squad that took them to two cup finals consisted of 16 out of 29 players being either youth products, free transfers or deals under 300,000!! He had 7.5million to bring in Ander Herrera. They also finished 10th in La Liga with this squad. 16 out of 29 players for under 300k a pop. Two cup finals, 10th in La Liga.

He also has the quality to coach and influence the likes of Pochettino, Alexis Sanchez, Medel, Vidal, Llorente (scored 29 goals under him), Javi Martinez (got a move to Bayern). You can see the qualities and philosophy of Bielsa's coaching in each of their games.

Not to mention the way he treats the press and his philosophy regarding youth:

"Bielsa likes to systematise the game. He says that there are 29 distinct formations in football and believes that every young player should be given the opportunity to experience each of them. [45]

Fernando Llorente, who played under Bielsa at Athletic Bilbao, said of his former coach, "At first he seems tough and he may even annoy you with his persistence and don't-take-no-for-an-answer resilience, but in the end he is a genius."[46] Former Argentina National Team Striker Gabriel Batistuta proclaimed about Bielsa 'he was the one who taught me how to train on rainy days, he taught me everything[47]

Manchester City player Benjamin Mendy cited for his improvement under Bielsa at Marseille, Mendy claimed Bielsa had "given back to him the strength and aggressiveness lost last year."[48][49] His teammate Aymeric Laporte who was given his debut by Bielsa at Athletic Bilbao, described him as a 'mentor' figure.[50]

As Bielsa refuses to grant exclusive interviews, the press conference has become his preferred method of communication. He has been known to field every last question from the assembled media during these gatherings. If the talk turns to the intricacies of the game, a three- or even four-hour press conference is possible. According to him, "Every media should get the same attention from me, from the biggest TV station to the smallest newspaper."

I'm just getting started, but I'm going to leave it there for now. What you should really be interested in though is analysis of his formations, tactics and philosophy. That is where he has made a name for himself and where he has gone on to influence the likes mentioned above.

I can post some videos if anyone is interested.

All that aside, aren't we looking for someone a who's going to demand a lot from the group we have, and with some of Bielsa's philosophies I might even suggest someone who will embrace the sort of challenges that face us as a club.

Bielsa or Bruce?

I'm more amazed that Bielsa has put himself in the discussion than I am that someone would suggest Bruce is the superior choice.
Really well written pal.

I suppose with Bielsa its more exciting - its the unknown...

On the downside - its the unknown... :)

Post Reply