Tommy Robinson in prison.

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Ellandback1
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Re: Tommy Robinson in prison.

Post by Ellandback1 »

Fred, I'm cautious of Robinson because of his past and his extreme views about religion.
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Re: Tommy Robinson in prison.

Post by fred »

Ellandback1 wrote: Wed May 30, 2018 4:03 pm It does show that Robinson had a top notch brief on Monday
Even if you are right (which I doubt, as I don`t believe single questionable sources), it doesn`t imply that the procedures as a whole was as it should have been, it was certainly way off the normal proceedings if someone is accused of breatching the piece.
What about the gag order?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FGkVL6jvbwU (Not saying this guy knows the truth, just an opposing source.)
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Re: Tommy Robinson in prison.

Post by fred »

Ellandback1 wrote: Wed May 30, 2018 4:10 pm Fred, I'm cautious of Robinson because of his past and his extreme views about religion.
Being cautious is actually what I would hope anyone would be in regard to many things. (Also in regard to T. Robinson. Would I
trust him in regard to his motivs being beyond critisism? Certainly not. But I don`t claim to know what they are either.)
If you read what I have already written then the you will see that I have answered in detail
to the points you put forward.

Past: I would be sceptical towards anyones motives! That leaves: judge a person on what he says and does and not on assumed motives. You won`t see any claims of him agains all muslims, since leaving the EDL. What he asks for today is that the moderate muslims would have the power to dictate which interpretation should be/get dominant.
No modern day Ethics would refer to motivs (in laws it`s only required that someone knows what he was doing and that it was wrong), but looks at the consequences of actions.
Have I ever denied his questionable past? Does Robinson? So why refer to it? Does he still stand for what he stood in the past?
His religious views have changed from being against all muslims to being aimed at the Koran/Haddith being a potential Fascist ideolgy (as you haven`t read it though, that won`t be a point of relevance to you.)

I`m totally with Robinson in regard to his critizism on the Koran/Haddith (and to a maybe lesser extent I would ad the catholic church, that is the Bible.)
There is no single Interpretation of the Koran by the way...there are only interpretations. That enables to pick those writings wich serve ones own Agenda.
Sorry, if you try to brake down the problems by simplification, then you hardly grasp where the potential problems lie.
Last edited by fred on Wed May 30, 2018 4:57 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Tommy Robinson in prison.

Post by Cjay »

Ellandback1 wrote: Wed May 30, 2018 3:33 pm I don't think Tommy is too bright!

It's only a minority, but perhaps people feel sorry for him?
Dont care enough to follow the case.

Only given it a quick Google.

He got a suspended sentence for doing the exact same thing he was sent to prison for.

Whys that not right? Very odd.
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Re: Tommy Robinson in prison.

Post by fred »

Cjay wrote: Wed May 30, 2018 4:27 pm Dont care enough to follow the case.

Only given it a quick Google.

He got a suspended sentence for doing the exact same thing he was sent to prison for.

Whys that not right? Very odd.
Please, mate, please!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Have you read a single answer I wrote in regard to the identical statement you already put forward?
And if you don`t care, then accept that that implies not to be informed and not interested to be informed.
Wishing to be informed implies real care (for the truth), as you don`t WHY utter any opinion at all, and why ask to be informed?
(The answers were given allready adding to the absurdity.)
Last edited by fred on Wed May 30, 2018 4:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Tommy Robinson in prison.

Post by Cjay »

fred wrote: Wed May 30, 2018 3:47 pmCan you read?
Yes, thanks for asking.
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Re: Tommy Robinson in prison.

Post by Cjay »

fred wrote: Wed May 30, 2018 4:30 pm Please, mate, please!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Lol it means something to you fair enough.

Means naff all to me if he's in prison or not hence why im saying very little.
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Re: Tommy Robinson in prison.

Post by fred »

Cjay wrote: Wed May 30, 2018 4:33 pm Lol it means something to you fair enough.

Means naff all to me if he's in prison or not hence why im saying very little.
Say nothing if you want to be consistent with yourself. (Not being interested...fair enough in my eyes by the way.)
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Re: Tommy Robinson in prison.

Post by fred »

Cjay wrote: Wed May 30, 2018 4:31 pm Yes, thanks for asking.
Just started to have some doubts as I allready had answered to a more or less identical question from your side.
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Re: Tommy Robinson in prison.

Post by Cjay »

fred wrote: Wed May 30, 2018 4:36 pm Say nothing if you want to be consistent with yourself. (Not being interested.)
Fair enough.

Football is why im here.

This bloke isnt.
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Re: Tommy Robinson in prison.

Post by fred »

Cjay wrote: Wed May 30, 2018 4:38 pm Fair enough.

Football is why im here.

This bloke isnt.
He`s a fanatic Leeds fan (or at least was), probably engaged with football hooliganism now and then.

MOT... :angel:

And agree that this is a football forum, therefore I won`t mention any political themes here in future. And I don`t expect people to
being engaged or interested in this `story`(well, I guess I did, my fault). But not trying to be fair in how one judges a person (by individual opinions or in regard to laws) is a different matter though.
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Re: Tommy Robinson in prison.

Post by tomat26 »

fred wrote: Wed May 30, 2018 4:41 pm He`s a fanatic Leeds fan (or at least was), probably engaged with football hooliganism now and then.

MOT... :angel:

And agree that this is a football forum, therefore I won`t mention any political themes here in future. And I don`t expect people to
being engaged or interested in this `story`(well, I guess I did, my fault). But not trying to be fair in how one judges a person (by individual opinions or in regard to laws) is a different matter though.
Fred....you are so wrong it beggars belief...Robinson has found his spiritual home.
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Re: Tommy Robinson in prison.

Post by tomat26 »

radebe88 wrote: Wed May 30, 2018 9:09 pm Fred I don’t mind saying it how it is...

There is a problem in certain communities where some groups of men are grooming young kids and they are often Muslims.

Also Tommy Robinson is a horrendous, racist, ignorant shitbag and I hope the Muslims in prison have a great time with him for spreading his vile hate.

Every other person I know that defends him is also a racist.

If you defend him you are either ignorant or mental.

Everything summed up nicely there. Close the Fred, I mean thread.

X
:tup:
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Re: Tommy Robinson in prison.

Post by fred »

tomat26 wrote: Wed May 30, 2018 5:11 pm Fred....you are so wrong it beggars belief...Robinson has found his spiritual home.
If you could back that up with facts or explain why you believe so, your opinion would be worth more than a mere noise in my head.

Come on, here`s the thread where you can speak out.`
My responses in this thread have I believe not once been directed on someone having a different view to mine, unless
it wasn`t backed up by facts, or based on selective or irrelevant facts or mere assumptions.

May I ask if you have ever read the Koran? If you don`t happen to be a muslim yourself I`m 99% convinced you haven`t.
In that case my question would be: what are you talking about?
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Re: Tommy Robinson in prison.

Post by fred »

radebe88 wrote: Wed May 30, 2018 9:09 pm Fred I don’t mind saying it how it is...

There is a problem in certain communities where some groups of men are grooming young kids and they are often Muslims.

Also Tommy Robinson is a horrendous, racist, ignorant shitbag and I hope the Muslims in prison have a great time with him for spreading his vile hate.

Every other person I know that defends him is also a racist.

If you defend him you are either ignorant or mental.

Everything summed up nicely there. Close the Fred, I mean thread.

X
You define what`s wrong with England in regard to free speach.

Let`s stay with the facts: 90% of all convicted grooming gang members are male muslim. Compare that fact to your opening sentence.
Trying to be political correct or just ignore the facts? And: people like T. Robinson are one reason why the police started to act in regard to these gang rapes.
The authorities don`t do very much against online grooming at all. Why the f**k would private people feel the need to stamp down on that problem (and therreby acting in my eyes outside the law in many cases?) Hundreds of these so calles `nonce hunters`, and the suspects are mostly not muslims.

So, I`m not aloud to name someone a numpty on this forum but you call me a racist?
Hm, since when are muslims a race? Which race are you thinking of?

So, come on, back that up your accusations with anything I`ve written here, or prove to be
a coward and liar hiding behind the anonymity of the net.

Then you should have noticed that I defend Robinson in regard to not everything he said or says, did or does.

Whatever...I think I will ceep this thread going, as it hasn`t really started yet...I mean not one reasoned response
backed up by not selective facts. Prove that free speach is a real problem on this forum too.
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Re: Tommy Robinson in prison.

Post by becchio bear »

Ok guys can we stop with the insults please. We all have our opinions but no need for personal slights. :bear:
I'm going back to 505, I saw them at Sheffield and they were amazing.
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Re: Tommy Robinson in prison.

Post by Cjay »

fred wrote: Wed May 30, 2018 4:41 pm He`s a fanatic Leeds fan (or at least was), probably engaged with football hooliganism now and then.

MOT... :angel:

And agree that this is a football forum, therefore I won`t mention any political themes here in future. And I don`t expect people to
being engaged or interested in this `story`(well, I guess I did, my fault). But not trying to be fair in how one judges a person (by individual opinions or in regard to laws) is a different matter though.
Wont comment again because as we agree on if it is of no interest then say nothing. :)

But.

You clearly are very passionate about this, fair doos.

Could it be that a man clearly not afraid of prison like Tommy Robinson appears to be sacrificed his freedom knowingly (by that i mean unless he is totally thick he must have known there was a decent chance he could end up arrested doing what he did. Therefore as he was already on a suspended sentence if arrested a charge and prison sentence was likely).

He did that in order to get this sort of reaction?

People up in arms, protests and such.

Get him and whatever his cause is back in the news?
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Re: Tommy Robinson in prison.

Post by fred »

radebe88 wrote: Wed May 30, 2018 10:27 pm Ok, without any evidence I’ll have to believe you that 90% if convicted grooming gang members are male muslim. Maybe that’s correct though, it certainly appears that way even in the mainstream media that you seem to not trust.
The mainstream media were ordered not to connect the problem of grooming gangs with the culprits being of asian or muslim origin. Can you back your claim up with the source you are recurring to?
Also 100% of people that I know that support Tommy Robinson are racists. So I’ll stick with the evidence produced with my own eyes and ears and conclude that the trend continues with you.
Wrong. Robinson isn`t a racist. I have difficulties to imagine to what such racism should be aimed at. As muslims aren`t a race bu a so called religion.
Can you explain what precise words these Robinson supporters refer to when being racist. Being Arab would be the only term I could think of. As most Arabs are muslims this would seem to have some logic.

Your desperate need to defend him is so pathetic and misguided. I hope you one day understand the world better and be at peace with yourself for your lack of rational thought
This Kind indeed makes me rather desperate: facts mate! Name a single thing I`ve said wich I haven`t backed up with facts. You bemoaning I`m nor being rational, but calling ma a racist, because...blabla...ludicrous.
Have you ever read the Koran? If not: what are talking about, claiming to be rational?!

I love you Fred but the fight isn’t against Muslims. It’s about rational debate and understanding each and every person the best we can and for as long as Robinson and Hopkins and the like get the chance to spew their hatred and garbage that doesn’t look like it will ever happen.
Wow, that has cought me on the wrong foot. You love me but hate my opinion? T. Robinson says somethin similar in regard to mulims by the way. He argues that some ideas in the Koran are fascist. He says then that Islam is a fascist ideology. I would say the Koran is potentially Fascist, depending on how it is interpreted (and I would say the same in regard to some contents of the bible...makes it even more difficult to back your claim I`m a racist.)
It’s not just his message that is damaging it’s his behaviour[/quote]

But the latter point you mention I agree on, that is I`m devided on this subject. Fact is that muslims seem to be treated very lenient in comparison to non-muslim. It is possible for radikal muslims to organize meetings, they are allowed to demonstrate against English laws and Police. This has all occured.
That is: the governement is using an appeasement approach. In my eyes ALL should be treated the same in regard to free speach and laws.
If T. Robinson provokes more hate than he is helping the cause of integration is impossible to prove either way. And isn`t one allowed to name the contents of the Koran just so the muslims don`t feel attacked? I would expect that any believer of any Religion is prepared to accept the facts about the holy books their belief is based on.
That is being rational!
Robinsons ways of `doing` things is very outspoken, and he may call him a thug if you wish.
Yes, in my eyes he is too extrem in some thing he says (as that Islam is fascist whatever...ask 10 muslims what Islam is, and you`ll get 10 different answers. Potentially it is racist, and history has proven that more than once. Christianity isn`t much better in that respect though.)
But nor being allowed to name problems in respect to Islam just can`t be the right way either. If muslims would accept that the Koran contains very problematic verses, then one could beginn a real dialog. But many muslims would deny such fact.

His behaviour not just in this case but over all since in the public eye possibly endangered the victims further, effected the outcomes negatively or caused a greater divide between cultures in the community.
As said before: you can`t back that up with facts. It is an assumption not more. In regard to what Robinson says and writes about the Koran is something muslims should think about. To adress it can`t be something being forbidden. Look at reality in all aspects in the face, or you might be surprised one day how things have developed.

Claiming that Robinson endangers the victims is one of the most ridiculous Statements you come forward with. Go one step further and you will claim he is responsible for gang grooming by muslims. Total nonsense. :poo:
Robinson is the reason the authorities started to act against this gang-grooming at all. I won`t repeat the same things a Million times: but the same applies in regard to online-grooming of dominantly white English males.
As-Salamu Alaykum My brother Fred
I find it a bit irritating you calling me a brother, as long as you call me a racist, being irrational and whatever more.
I personally have never had a problem with a single muslim I`ve known, but then I`ve never discussed the Content of Koran
with any of them.(Because I know, that views and opinios would probably clash without the chance of agreeing. A bit of cowardness one my side. I guess so.)
Why must one choose to be someones `brother` or to be critical towards the content of a book his belief is based on.
I woulsd expect of any believer of all religions to be prepared to be confronted with problematic aspects of their believes,
or the writings they are based on?
For a rational person very hard to ignore a critical view on whatever...well it`s impossible. It may be reasonable to be careful how
one comes forward with such critizism, but stopping being critical or forbidding such (as the three monotheistic religions demand of their followers more or less) would be the worst thing at all in my eyes.
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Re: Tommy Robinson in prison.

Post by fred »

radebe88 wrote: Wed May 30, 2018 10:34 pm You have just typed so much drivel and contradicted yourself so many times that I now know this conversation is a pointless task.

Never going to agree on this one.

Night
So, I`m writing drivel. being irrational and am a racist.

Cowards will accuse and then back off.

So, I would prefer you not calling me `brother` under these circumstances.
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Re: Tommy Robinson in prison.

Post by fred »

Cjay wrote: Wed May 30, 2018 10:50 pm You clearly are very passionate about this, fair doos.

Could it be that a man clearly not afraid of prison like Tommy Robinson appears to be sacrificed his freedom knowingly (by that i mean unless he is totally thick he must have known there was a decent chance he could end up arrested doing what he did. Therefore as he was already on a suspended sentence if arrested a charge and prison sentence was likely).

He did that in order to get this sort of reaction?

People up in arms, protests and such.

Get him and whatever his cause is back in the news?
Good point. I`ve said more than once that I am sceptical towards claiming to know what the motives are behind someons actions.

The main reason I would tend to disagree with the assumption that he wanted to get inprisoned, is the Video he filmed (himself) in front of the court in Leeds.

I actually had the impression that he feared to have maybe gone too far (him iterating that he had talked of the suspects as ALLEGEDLY having been part of gang-raping.) As I don`t know what exactly he did that legitimated the sentecing, or more precise: wich behaviour or what he said was the reason they arrested him.
If he had wanted to be arrested he certainly would have provoked such in a much more offensiv manner.
And he did seem very surprised and a bit distraught wenn being arrested.

If one watches the vid, it just isn`t apparent why he was arrested. Breach of piece? Ridiculous. Who`s peace could he have been breached?
Content of court? Maybe. But again: what was the exact behaviour that his arrest was based on?

And he had said more than once that he feared being inprisoned, as he could be the victim of muslims. ( In this vid he speaks about such concerns: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y4LynP0o2j0 )
But he is being detained in a seperate part of the prison, clearly suggesting that authorities know about this potential danger.

Then he has wife and kids. Why would he risk not seeing them for quite a long time.

If one suggests that he wanted to be inprisoned one will find it hard to back that up with any indications or facts. So again a way to defame him (not saying that is your intention!)
Not that he had no voice or influence before his inprisonment either (he had organized a large meeting in regard to `free speach` a couple of weks ago). Quite the contrary I would assume (at least muslims and the authorities were very aware of his views)...otherwise the claims that he causes more hatred than helping would also be without reason.

But I must say that I can`t understand what drives him, what allowes him to cope with hundreds of death threats against him and his family. (To read such wish from a user here I find absolutely disgusting by the way.)
He has experienced violence from muslims against family members in the past, one being the raping of a family member. This is the only reasonable explanaition for his vigor in regard to getting heard. So my passion about this is way behind that of T. Robinson.

(Actually he is a person I would probably feel uneasy with, as I am a much much more introverted person. Quite the opposite to him actually, also in regard to his slightly `thugish` ways. But that`s irrelevant as I`m foremost inteterested in his critical arguments (based on facts) against potential problematic parts of Islam/Koran (which I don`t agree with all), and the problem of free speach as such.
Last edited by fred on Thu May 31, 2018 1:12 am, edited 2 times in total.
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