The LUFC Breakfast Debate (Fri 25 May)

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billie1
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Re: The LUFC Breakfast Debate (Fri 25 May)

Post by billie1 » Fri May 25, 2018 1:36 pm

1964white wrote:
Fri May 25, 2018 7:24 am
Bremner
Giles
Hunter
Batty
Jones
And there was also Big Jack and his little black note book ! Wouldn’t have wanted to have been in that .

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Re: The LUFC Breakfast Debate (Fri 25 May)

Post by Cjay » Fri May 25, 2018 2:31 pm

lufc1304 wrote:
Fri May 25, 2018 1:33 pm
Cjay, if there's any justice in the world, that luck will run out soon. Hopefully by the end of the month!!!
Fingers and toes crossed.

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Re: The LUFC Breakfast Debate (Fri 25 May)

Post by danhirons » Fri May 25, 2018 2:36 pm

Cjay wrote:
Fri May 25, 2018 12:58 pm
I'm convinced he is the luckiest man in football.

1st job- Barnsley had won 6 in a row before he took over. Plus already in a cup final.

They continued winning under him for a spell, momentum.

2 wins in 23, most managers get the sack, he got a new contract

Then gets a pay rise at a bigger club, loses 50% of his games, wins 4 in 16, and he still hasnt been sacked.
You're just leaving out all the good stuff.

Got Barnsley promoted.

Very respectable 14th place finish after losing most of their best players following promotion.

Struggled next season but hey ho, he was massively overperforming the season before with that squad.

Took over Leeds in free fall.

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Re: The LUFC Breakfast Debate (Fri 25 May)

Post by 1964white » Fri May 25, 2018 2:48 pm

danhirons wrote:
Fri May 25, 2018 2:36 pm
You're just leaving out all the good stuff.

Got Barnsley promoted.

Very respectable 14th place finish after losing most of their best players following promotion.

Struggled next season but hey ho, he was massively overperforming the season before with that squad.

Took over Leeds in free fall.
Conveniently forgotten Dan

Also he was left with one of the worst Barnsley teams I've seen. The tykes were 5th bottom when he resigned from his job I believe, never in the bottom three. New manager couldn't save them as they were relegated

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Re: The LUFC Breakfast Debate (Fri 25 May)

Post by Cjay » Fri May 25, 2018 3:19 pm

danhirons wrote:
Fri May 25, 2018 2:36 pm
You're just leaving out all the good stuff.

1)Got Barnsley promoted.

2)Very respectable 14th place finish after losing most of their best players following promotion.

3)Struggled next season but hey ho, he was massively overperforming the season before with that squad.

4)Took over Leeds in free fall.
1) Won 6 in a row before he arrived, winning is a habit as they say. Wasnt his team either. He was basically a PE teacher, putting out the cones. Selection, tactics etc never changed that season from when Johnson left according to Barnsley fans. Dont blame Hecky for that, if it aint broke dont fix it, but also cant claim much credit either.

2) Were in freefall after January, admittedly they sold some good players but had some decent ones left. At best you could say he had an ok 6month period in the Championship with someone elses squad over 2 years.

3) But he wasnt over performing from February that season onwards, they were in free fall and he couldnt stop it. Good start saved him, freefall continued last season, basically Barnsley were in freefall for 12months under him.

4) Not even close to as bad before him as it was under him.

Doesnt it concern you that he as a manager has had 2 different squads and sets of players in freefall, total relegation form for the last 14months with next to 0 improvement during those 14months?

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Re: The LUFC Breakfast Debate (Fri 25 May)

Post by Cjay » Fri May 25, 2018 3:34 pm

1964white wrote:
Fri May 25, 2018 2:48 pm
Conveniently forgotten Dan

Also he was left with one of the worst Barnsley teams I've seen. The tykes were 5th bottom when he resigned from his job I believe, never in the bottom three. New manager couldn't save them as they were relegated
He built that team lets not forget, limited budget (more then some) or not, he built that team.

Saved by how absolutely dreadful Hull were more then anything to do with Hecky, there was 1 point between Hull and Barnsley.

Ppg for Hecky at Barnsley before he left would have left them on 41 points, exactly where they ended up.

30 games this season, 16 end of last season, amounts to 1 full season . . . 40points, theyd be down.

I dont get why we are even arguing about how crap he is :verysad:

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Re: The LUFC Breakfast Debate (Fri 25 May)

Post by lufc1304 » Fri May 25, 2018 3:51 pm

Cjay wrote:
Fri May 25, 2018 3:34 pm
He built that team lets not forget, limited budget (more then some) or not, he built that team.

Saved by how absolutely dreadful Hull were more then anything to do with Hecky, there was 1 point between Hull and Barnsley.

Ppg for Hecky at Barnsley before he left would have left them on 41 points, exactly where they ended up.

30 games this season, 16 end of last season, amounts to 1 full season . . . 40points, theyd be down.

I dont get why we are even arguing about how crap he is :verysad:
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"When the going gets weird, the weird get professional!" Hunter S Thompson

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Re: The LUFC Breakfast Debate (Fri 25 May)

Post by danhirons » Fri May 25, 2018 4:19 pm

Cjay wrote:
Fri May 25, 2018 3:19 pm
1) Won 6 in a row before he arrived, winning is a habit as they say. Wasnt his team either. He was basically a PE teacher, putting out the cones. Selection, tactics etc never changed that season from when Johnson left according to Barnsley fans. Dont blame Hecky for that, if it aint broke dont fix it, but also cant claim much credit either.

2) Were in freefall after January, admittedly they sold some good players but had some decent ones left. At best you could say he had an ok 6month period in the Championship with someone elses squad over 2 years.

3) But he wasnt over performing from February that season onwards, they were in free fall and he couldnt stop it. Good start saved him, freefall continued last season, basically Barnsley were in freefall for 12months under him.

4) Not even close to as bad before him as it was under him.

Doesnt it concern you that he as a manager has had 2 different squads and sets of players in freefall, total relegation form for the last 14months with next to 0 improvement during those 14months?
I'm not trying to say he's a managerial genius, but to say he's an awful manager isn't fair at all. You're putting a negative spin on everything, I was just showing how you can put a positive spin on it.

Like you say he can be given no credit for getting them promoted, but then say he should be give the blame for the results since he took over here - both times taking over from someone else mid season with someone else's squad. If he can take no credit for the promotion then he takes no blame for our poor form since he arrived.

Doesn't concern me too much the form, Barnsley were always going to be struggling (I think they were just outside the relegation zone when he left).

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Re: The LUFC Breakfast Debate (Fri 25 May)

Post by Cjay » Fri May 25, 2018 5:21 pm

danhirons wrote:
Fri May 25, 2018 4:19 pm
I'm not trying to say he's a managerial genius, but to say he's an awful manager isn't fair at all. You're putting a negative spin on everything, I was just showing how you can put a positive spin on it.

Like you say he can be given no credit for getting them promoted, but then say he should be give the blame for the results since he took over here - both times taking over from someone else mid season with someone else's squad. If he can take no credit for the promotion then he takes no blame for our poor form since he arrived.

Doesn't concern me too much the form, Barnsley were always going to be struggling (I think they were just outside the relegation zone when he left).
Yeah i understand what your saying in regards to cant deny credit for promotion then blame him for our form, i see your point.

Suppose counter for that is ok, looking at it individually he didnt improve the recent form at Barnsley, just carried it on. But his spell for us was considerably worse then any period previously that season.

I dont feel im being negative, its how i see him lol.


There was no improvement, no new manager bounce, nobody can describe his tactical style or playing style, in 16 games there should be something with which to use to describe those aspects of his management and coaching.

He's meant to be good at blooding youngsters, Paudie O'Connor was dropped as soon as Cooper returned (despite Liam's awful form and O'Connor doing an ok job), Tom Pearce was dropped for some reason right after his debut, Hugo Diaz was never seen again. The last game of the season was the perfect opportunity to blood some kids, nothing to play for.

Instead he picked Vieira and Forshaw, two players with long term niggling injuries, Vieira in his knees, Forshaw in his hip.
Luke Ayling, just back from a serious injury, why risk him in a nothing game, why not reward Hosannah?
Sacko, Lasogga, O'Kane, on the bench, why? there not good enough, surely he knows that by now, wheres Clarke, Machuca, Dalby, Rey etc.

Predictable selections, no tactical identity, no identifiable playing style, didnt blood the kids like he could, the ones he did were more out of necessity, form collapsed, constantly blaming others.

If ( and i pray he isnt) but if he is our manager next season then i hope he proves me wrong, if Radz gets the signings over the line ( i dont even think Hecky has much say tbh) then they are quality and there shall be no excuse.

And this has turned into a ramble :lol:

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Re: The LUFC Breakfast Debate (Fri 25 May)

Post by danhirons » Fri May 25, 2018 6:19 pm

Cjay wrote:
Fri May 25, 2018 5:21 pm
Yeah i understand what your saying in regards to cant deny credit for promotion then blame him for our form, i see your point.

Suppose counter for that is ok, looking at it individually he didnt improve the recent form at Barnsley, just carried it on. But his spell for us was considerably worse then any period previously that season.

I dont feel im being negative, its how i see him lol.


There was no improvement, no new manager bounce, nobody can describe his tactical style or playing style, in 16 games there should be something with which to use to describe those aspects of his management and coaching.

He's meant to be good at blooding youngsters, Paudie O'Connor was dropped as soon as Cooper returned (despite Liam's awful form and O'Connor doing an ok job), Tom Pearce was dropped for some reason right after his debut, Hugo Diaz was never seen again. The last game of the season was the perfect opportunity to blood some kids, nothing to play for.

Instead he picked Vieira and Forshaw, two players with long term niggling injuries, Vieira in his knees, Forshaw in his hip.
Luke Ayling, just back from a serious injury, why risk him in a nothing game, why not reward Hosannah?
Sacko, Lasogga, O'Kane, on the bench, why? there not good enough, surely he knows that by now, wheres Clarke, Machuca, Dalby, Rey etc.

Predictable selections, no tactical identity, no identifiable playing style, didnt blood the kids like he could, the ones he did were more out of necessity, form collapsed, constantly blaming others.

If ( and i pray he isnt) but if he is our manager next season then i hope he proves me wrong, if Radz gets the signings over the line ( i dont even think Hecky has much say tbh) then they are quality and there shall be no excuse.

And this has turned into a ramble :lol:
Haha - no I get your points and to be honest I am surprised he is still here.

He's a young manager and for all our sakes let's hope he can turn it around next season - or else after 20 games you'll be telling me you told me so! :lol:

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