Given Up

[Cjay]

Before we start this isnt specifically to have a go at Heckingbottom.

Noel Whelan was scathing after the Norwich game, basically saying the players had given up, thrown in the towel, wern't fussed, didnt try, no closing down, no effort.

Thats not something you can accuse some of our players with often, no effort, Ronaldo Vieira is full of effort, Gianni Alioski (yes my fave i know) but one thing he cant be accused of is not trying, he has run his butt off all season.

I didnt think they tried vs Norwich, not just them i picked on them because its known i'm fans of both so wouldn't criticise for no reason.

Thought as a team we didnt seem fussed, the space we allowed Norwich was ridiculous, there was no pressing, no marking, no chasing, nothing.

And i thought back to other games under Heckingbottom.

Sunderland, Preston, Villa, etc

Did we really do anything other then go through the motions?

At anypoint under Hecky have the team played as well as we know they can?

There not faultless the players, they have lets us all down for sometime now.

But they can play better then they have, they can beat Barnsley comfortably, they can beat Sunderland, they can compete with Villa and Fulham and co.

But they havent.

Why?

Its not because they cant, they most definitely can beat Sunderland for god sake.

So is it that they dont care about the club?

I dont buy that tbh, there reputations are on the line, they are professionals, they have professional pride, so i dont think its a case of not caring about the club.

Fans often accuse players of not caring, i dont agree with that, i think the majority of players do care.

So if its not that, is it down to Hecky?
DO they not care about him?
DOnt they like him?

They havent played like they want him to stay on, that Norwich game wasnt a performance of players with a point to prove to there manager or wanting to help there manager.

Given the threats to overhaul the squad and stuff thats strange, if there jobs are at risk surely they would play for there futures?

Hecky has cricised them for months.

And yet the performances suggest a lack of care for what he says?

Despite all his threats and criticism there has been no response, nothing so suggest they have any interest in his words.

Am i wrong, what do we think?

Is it they dont care for the fans and club, or is it they dont want to play for the boss?

[andrewjohnsmith]

I keep supporting Hecky week after week. Tired of the turmoil over recent years, I want to see a manager be given a reasonable amount of time. But after the Norwich game I started thinking about the X factor - the coach. How a good coach can turn an average group of players into a better team. Whatever your assessment of our players, Hecks hasn't made the team better. You can say he's had a lot of injuries to contend with, but on Saturday he wasn't far from full strength - in fact he was only a couple of players away from the team that TC was over performing with.

The Norwich game more than anything is really troubling me now.

We know several players are playing for their future. If Hecks thinks that several players aren't giving their all - he hasn't said who is and who isn't - those players shouldn't even be in the first team squad. Give them the day off. Let someone who is hungry come in and take their place. That would reveal who the lethargic players are, but would also put other clubs on notice that this guy is out of favor so please make us an offer. Don't be a chicken sh*t and just play them because they're first teamers.

One case is obviously Lassoga. He quit over a month ago. Hecks decided that it would be much more beneficial to start Ekuban and/or Roofe. I completely agree. But why then keep putting Lassoga on the bench? Especially when Dalby and Clarke are lighting it up in the 23's and will be here next year. There were doubts about Pearce, O'Connor, and BPF but they've all taken their chance and proved them to be first team squad members for next year. Dalby, Clarke, Denton could have had that chance too. And Lassoga has just been a waste of space - literally and metaphorically speaking.

Dump the dead weight. If someone isn't giving the all, let someone else play. As to whether Hecks can create a motivated unit, however, still remains to be seen.

[Gino 1959]

One would like to believe that a player has enough self-pride not to go through the motions in any game regardless of what is going on around them at a club.

[The Subhuman]

One would like to believe that a player has enough self-pride not to go through the motions in any game regardless of what is going on around them at a club.

This, and it's probably end of dead season lethargy than anything to do with the manager

[Ellandback1]

I keep supporting Hecky week after week. Tired of the turmoil over recent years, I want to see a manager be given a reasonable amount of time. But after the Norwich game I started thinking about the X factor - the coach. How a good coach can turn an average group of players into a better team. Whatever your assessment of our players, Hecks hasn't made the team better. You can say he's had a lot of injuries to contend with, but on Saturday he wasn't far from full strength - in fact he was only a couple of players away from the team that TC was over performing with.

The Norwich game more than anything is really troubling me now.

We know several players are playing for their future. If Hecks thinks that several players aren't giving their all - he hasn't said who is and who isn't - those players shouldn't even be in the first team squad. Give them the day off. Let someone who is hungry come in and take their place. That would reveal who the lethargic players are, but would also put other clubs on notice that this guy is out of favor so please make us an offer. Don't be a chicken sh*t and just play them because they're first teamers.

One case is obviously Lassoga. He quit over a month ago. Hecks decided that it would be much more beneficial to start Ekuban and/or Roofe. I completely agree. But why then keep putting Lassoga on the bench? Especially when Dalby and Clarke are lighting it up in the 23's and will be here next year. There were doubts about Pearce, O'Connor, and BPF but they've all taken their chance and proved them to be first team squad members for next year. Dalby, Clarke, Denton could have had that chance too. And Lassoga has just been a waste of space - literally and metaphorically speaking.

Dump the dead weight. If someone isn't giving the all, let someone else play. As to whether Hecks can create a motivated unit, however, still remains to be seen.

Evening AJS

I applaud you for sticking up for Heckingbottom, but unfortunately he is way out of his depth. I hear that Jansson and Berardi had to be restrained after a set two with PH directly after the Wendies game. I would not be surporised if he had lost the dressing room.

Look at the players at his disposal compared to any team in the bottom half. They should be (on paper) destroying most of these teams.

You could pick a fan from the crowd who could do a better job, because simply put, they couldn't do any worse.

Heck said when he joined, he was going to make us hard to beat - in fact, he has made us into a laughing stock.

[HarryofOz]

There may have been a lack of zip to the performance against Norwich, but I guarantee that that happened up and down the country, crept of into Europe and spread around the world wherever there was a meaningless game between two teams that had nothing to play for.

It may not be 'right' in the eyes of the fans, but it's what happens. And I can guarantee you that there will be plenty of times that those fans don't give it their all in their own jobs.

And it's important - even if not relevant to the Norwich game - not to confuse lack of effort with lack of success and ability.

[Cjay]

I keep supporting Hecky week after week. Tired of the turmoil over recent years, I want to see a manager be given a reasonable amount of time. But after the Norwich game I started thinking about the X factor - the coach. How a good coach can turn an average group of players into a better team. Whatever your assessment of our players, Hecks hasn't made the team better. You can say he's had a lot of injuries to contend with, but on Saturday he wasn't far from full strength - in fact he was only a couple of players away from the team that TC was over performing with.

The Norwich game more than anything is really troubling me now.

We know several players are playing for their future. If Hecks thinks that several players aren't giving their all - he hasn't said who is and who isn't - those players shouldn't even be in the first team squad. Give them the day off. Let someone who is hungry come in and take their place. That would reveal who the lethargic players are, but would also put other clubs on notice that this guy is out of favor so please make us an offer. Don't be a chicken sh*t and just play them because they're first teamers.

One case is obviously Lassoga. He quit over a month ago. Hecks decided that it would be much more beneficial to start Ekuban and/or Roofe. I completely agree. But why then keep putting Lassoga on the bench? Especially when Dalby and Clarke are lighting it up in the 23's and will be here next year. There were doubts about Pearce, O'Connor, and BPF but they've all taken their chance and proved them to be first team squad members for next year. Dalby, Clarke, Denton could have had that chance too. And Lassoga has just been a waste of space - literally and metaphorically speaking.

Dump the dead weight. If someone isn't giving the all, let someone else play. As to whether Hecks can create a motivated unit, however, still remains to be seen.

Interesting point about Lasogga.

I rate him, think there is quality there but he certainly has given up.

Hecky has kept going on about knowing who stays who goes, working out who wants to be here who doesnt.

Yet he keeps picking players who havent performed, but are bigger names.

Tom Pearce was dropped randomly, in came Anita, a player we know cant play fb, in came Dallas a player who with the greatest will in the world hasnt really shone ever since he was here.

Then there was Paudie O'Connor, inexplicably dropped for Liam Cooper. What for?

Has Cooper performed well under Hecky, no.

Has O'Connor done ok, yes.

So why drop him for an underperforming senior player.

Why single out a kid in Tom Pearce after Norwich?

If the problems came down our left why not criticise Pablo? Why didnt Hecky switch Alioski to left wing to help Pearce?

Why not complain about Jansson, Cooper, Hernandez?

They didnt do much vs Norwich, why not say that?

He talks about knowing all these things, but all he does is select the same players all the time.

Dalby, Rey, Clarke, Edmondson, Kamwa.

He would have earned more support from the fan base if he had shown that he wasnt a billy cowpooper.

All he has done is say how poor the squad is.

Then select the same players for the next game.

Is it any wonder theres doubts about his relationship with the squad?

Someone mentioned how there was an altercation between Jansson, Berardi and Hecky.

Could be just whispers, but would it be surprising?

They have had a manager tearing lumps out of them for months, blaming them, and thats all he does, blame others.

He complained about Tom Pearce struggling in the 2nd half.

Why didnt he explain why he thought taking off an international wing back was the right move if? A player who could have been moved to help Pearce.

Why did he think we had problems down our left side then he took off Pearce for Lasogga and for god knows what reason played Pablo Hernandez at left wing back.

He never ever explains his thinking, blame blame blame.

[Azkal]

One would like to believe that a player has enough self-pride not to go through the motions in any game regardless of what is going on around them at a club.

Agree with your sentiments Gino, but unfortunately self-pride is a rare commodity in football these days.

[Richard]

Interesting point about Lasogga.

I rate him, think there is quality there but he certainly has given up.

Hecky has kept going on about knowing who stays who goes, working out who wants to be here who doesnt.

Yet he keeps picking players who havent performed, but are bigger names.

Tom Pearce was dropped randomly, in came Anita, a player we know cant play fb, in came Dallas a player who with the greatest will in the world hasnt really shone ever since he was here.

Then there was Paudie O'Connor, inexplicably dropped for Liam Cooper. What for?

Has Cooper performed well under Hecky, no.

Has O'Connor done ok, yes.

So why drop him for an underperforming senior player.

Why single out a kid in Tom Pearce after Norwich?

If the problems came down our left why not criticise Pablo? Why didnt Hecky switch Alioski to left wing to help Pearce?

Why not complain about Jansson, Cooper, Hernandez?

They didnt do much vs Norwich, why not say that?

He talks about knowing all these things, but all he does is select the same players all the time.

Dalby, Rey, Clarke, Edmondson, Kamwa.

He would have earned more support from the fan base if he had shown that he wasnt a billy cowpooper.

All he has done is say how poor the squad is.

Then select the same players for the next game.

Is it any wonder theres doubts about his relationship with the squad?

Someone mentioned how there was an altercation between Jansson, Berardi and Hecky.

Could be just whispers, but would it be surprising?

They have had a manager tearing lumps out of them for months, blaming them, and thats all he does, blame others.

He complained about Tom Pearce struggling in the 2nd half.

Why didnt he explain why he thought taking off an international wing back was the right move if? A player who could have been moved to help Pearce.

Why did he think we had problems down our left side then he took off Pearce for Lasogga and for god knows what reason played Pablo Hernandez at left wing back.

He never ever explains his thinking, blame blame blame.

Agree with most of this (if you take ignore my opinion of Lasogga) and picking up on an important point, Pablo playing down the left hand side... I’ve said (other forums) time and time again we can’t accomodate Pablo in a team when he is playing on the left, he leaves the LB far too exposed, our balance is shot to pieces when Pablo is picked out wide.

I don’t dislike Pablo but I don’t rate him as highly as many others seem to. If Phillips or any other player misplaces a pass they are criticised, if Pablo misplaces one (as he often does) I’ve seen comments along the lines of he is one step ahead of the rest and shame the other players are not on the same wave length... Sory but No No No, it’s a misplaced pass...

Lasogga I haven’t rated from day one, he can’t jump, has no pace, no movement and no positional sense, can’t hold the ball up and has not once even slightly panicked the opposing team when trying to close down. He spends most the game perched on the shoulder of an opposing defender.

Yes he can find the back of the net when the ball drops on his toe from 10 yards out but ffs he is a striker, a bit like praising a keeper if he saves a ball hit straight at him. Wood, Green, Bartley and Taylor in this current team we’d be top 6 our season has been hampered by the lack of quality signed to replace them.

[lufc1304]

PH has lost the dressing room, as it's always the players' fault and never his own. Cardinal rule of football as a manager is that you take it on the chin, then bollock the players behind closed doors. How can you expect players to perform for a manager they have no respect for?

[HarryofOz]

PH has lost the dressing room,

So not only is he poor coach/manager but he can't even operate a GPS properly

[The Subhuman]

So not only is he poor coach/manager but he can't even operate a GPS properly

[Richard]

PH has lost the dressing room, as it's always the players' fault and never his own. Cardinal rule of football as a manager is that you take it on the chin, then bollock the players behind closed doors. How can you expect players to perform for a manager they have no respect for?

Since day one of Cellino I have seen fans complain that every manager/coach since has lost the dressing room. The thing they all have in common is someone else has been in charge of the signings...

[lufc1304]

So not only is he poor coach/manager but he can't even operate a GPS properly

Boom boom! You here all week, H?

[lufc1304]

Since day one of Cellino I have seen fans complain that every manager/coach since has lost the dressing room. The thing they all have in common is someone else has been in charge of the signings...

Quite possibly, but FeckingArse knew this coming in. And he's the only one that I recall passing all the blame onto the players. That does not make for a happy dressing room, no matter the shortcomings of some of those who occupy it.

[HarryofOz]

Boom boom! You here all week, H?

, yep, you don't get rid of me

[lufc1304]

, yep, you don't get rid of me

*Hits mute button*

[1964white]

PH has lost the dressing room, as it's always the players' fault and never his own. Cardinal rule of football as a manager is that you take it on the chin, then bollock the players behind closed doors. How can you expect players to perform for a manager they have no respect for?

Maybe the case Nick, even so many of those wimps are not fit or good enough to wear the white shirt of Leeds.

We require players that will put their bodies on the line for Leeds United not divers/squealers/poor disciplined players who think football owes them something.

Believe me our loyal fans have had a bellyful of them, god knows what will happen if they are turned over by the hoops on Sunday

[HarryofOz]

*Hits mute button*

[lufc1304]

Maybe the case Nick, even so many of those wimps are not fit or good enough to wear the white shirt of Leeds.

We require players that will put their bodies on the line for Leeds United not divers/squealers/poor disciplined players who think football owes them something.

Believe me our loyal fans have had a bellyful of them, god knows what will happen if they are turned over by the hoops on Sunday

Some of them aren't, Leon, granted, but the point remains, you don't slag off your own players publicly. Old Bacon Face, up there amongst the greatest domestic managers of all time, defended his players to the hilt. Guardiola, during his first season when things weren't working, took the rap himself. Different scale (different stratosphere from us, sadly) but the principal is the same. Had we been on an unstoppable run into the play-offs, then this public shaming might have been acceptable. As it is, we're lucky there isn't another two months to the season, or we'd all be wearing brown trousers under this clown. You advocate giving him more time, and that's your prerogative, but the way I see it, the players, irrespective of their own ability, don't rate him. And it shows