Orta on his way

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Re: Orta on his way

Post by 1964white » Sun Apr 22, 2018 3:19 pm

faaip wrote:
Sun Apr 22, 2018 1:59 pm
Has any body considered we are, like last season, tiring. Especially with nothing to play for
Has anyone considered we are utter sh*te unlike last season ?

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Re: Orta on his way

Post by Clive » Sun Apr 22, 2018 3:30 pm

1964white wrote:
Sun Apr 22, 2018 3:19 pm
Has anyone considered we are utter sh*te unlike last season ?
We had a poor start and a poor finish last season, and played negative football.

This season we had a good start, played good football, and only fell away from play-off contention with one of the most bizarre managerial changes in history.

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Re: Orta on his way

Post by weasel » Sun Apr 22, 2018 3:31 pm

1964white wrote:
Sun Apr 22, 2018 3:17 pm
Name the good buys he made where it matters please ?
Good: Saiz, Forshaw, Alioski

Righto you name the bad buys and say exactly what you expected for the price we paid for them. Easy to criticise but when paying £500k for a player you will rarely get great players these days.
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Re: Orta on his way

Post by faaip » Sun Apr 22, 2018 3:42 pm

Orta has generally been on point with his scouting imo, got the keeper wrong and clearly didn't work too hard on the Lassoga scouting. But that was probably rushed and I'd guess the keeper or type was TC's choice.

Looking forward to seeing Roberts.
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Re: Orta on his way

Post by Clive » Sun Apr 22, 2018 3:54 pm

faaip wrote:
Sun Apr 22, 2018 3:42 pm
Orta has generally been on point with his scouting imo, got the keeper wrong and clearly didn't work too hard on the Lassoga scouting. But that was probably rushed and I'd guess the keeper or type was TC's choice.

Looking forward to seeing Roberts.
Yeah blame the guy who's been sacked and absolve the bloke who's still at the club of any blame.

I get the feeling Alex Ferguson could take over as manager, change the kit to red, the badge to a c**k and balls and the name of the club to Man United's Bitch and you'd still lap it up.

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Re: Orta on his way

Post by 1964white » Sun Apr 22, 2018 4:04 pm

weasel wrote:
Sun Apr 22, 2018 3:31 pm
Good: Saiz, Forshaw, Alioski

Righto you name the bad buys and say exactly what you expected for the price we paid for them. Easy to criticise but when paying £500k for a player you will rarely get great players these days.
I'll give you Forshaw although he has only played a handful of games

Saiz & Alioski have been found out & their form had declined long before Hecky arrived at ER

The rest of the signings are distinctly poor or average at best

Before coming back at me remember I've seen every minute of every league game apart from two matches & I can honestly say we are inept in every department...........well we were until our trio of young kids came along

Wasn't the case last season under Cellino

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Re: Orta on his way

Post by 1964white » Sun Apr 22, 2018 4:12 pm

Clive wrote:
Sun Apr 22, 2018 3:30 pm
We had a poor start and a poor finish last season, and played negative football.

This season we had a good start, played good football, and only fell away from play-off contention with one of the most bizarre managerial changes in history.
We had a spine to our side last season apart from the midfield, a bit of tinkering & we were almost there

This season we've had no spine in our team whatsoever & now we are in a complete mess

We fell away long before Hecky arrived at ER

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Re: Orta on his way

Post by danhirons » Sun Apr 22, 2018 4:16 pm

weasel wrote:
Sun Apr 22, 2018 3:31 pm
Good: Saiz, Forshaw, Alioski

Righto you name the bad buys and say exactly what you expected for the price we paid for them. Easy to criticise but when paying £500k for a player you will rarely get great players these days.
So hypocritical. You say you can't judge players properly in such a short period of time and yet have judged forshaw as a good buy. For four or five million from another championship team it was hardly the most brilliant scouting I've ever seen.

Poor:
Cibicki
Sacko
Wiedwald
Anita
De bock
Klich
Lonergan
Borthwick Jackson

Ekuban and grot have not really shown much promise.

Lassogga been unbelievably average

Roberts injured the while time he's been here

Alioski been average. Saiz dropped off but admittedly looks a good find though he's not a young guy

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Re: Orta on his way

Post by danhirons » Sun Apr 22, 2018 4:17 pm

7 or 8 million there wasted plus a waste of wages

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Re: Orta on his way

Post by gessa » Sun Apr 22, 2018 4:23 pm

faaip wrote:
Sun Apr 22, 2018 3:42 pm
Orta has generally been on point with his scouting imo, got the keeper wrong and clearly didn't work too hard on the Lassoga scouting. But that was probably rushed and I'd guess the keeper or type was TC's choice.

Looking forward to seeing Roberts.
I would probably say the goalkeeper situation lost TC his job.
We started the season brightly and Wiedwald hardly had a save to make but still looked shakey on the few occasions he was called upon, but let's not forget 4 of the 5 wins were against teams who now sit in the bottom 5. As soon as we started playing the better teams his frailties really showed and the confidence seemed to drain from the defence,he was finally replaced by one no better than him,obviously not the only problem but definitely a main contribution imo.

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Re: Orta on his way

Post by Clive » Sun Apr 22, 2018 4:28 pm

1964white wrote:
Sun Apr 22, 2018 4:12 pm
We had a spine to our side last season apart from the midfield, a bit of tinkering & we were almost there

This season we've had no spine in our team whatsoever & now we are in a complete mess

We fell away long before Hecky arrived at ER
We were a point behind Middlesbrough and 6 points ahead of Millwall.

Middlesbrough appointed an experienced manager from the Premier League, Millwall stuck with the manager they had.

We sacked our manager and replaced him with a deluded loser, and that's the difference no matter what you say.

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Re: Orta on his way

Post by 1964white » Sun Apr 22, 2018 4:32 pm

danhirons wrote:
Sun Apr 22, 2018 4:16 pm
So hypocritical. You say you can't judge players properly in such a short period of time and yet have judged forshaw as a good buy. For four or five million from another championship team it was hardly the most brilliant scouting I've ever seen.

Poor:
Cibicki
Sacko
Wiedwald
Anita
De bock
Klich
Lonergan
Borthwick Jackson

Ekuban and grot have not really shown much promise.

Lassogga been unbelievably average

Roberts injured the while time he's been here

Alioski been average. Saiz dropped off but admittedly looks a good find though he's not a young guy
What a pile of dirge

If Weasel thinks that lot are any good, he can't be living in Spain, he must be on another planet :lol:

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Re: Orta on his way

Post by 1964white » Sun Apr 22, 2018 4:46 pm

Clive wrote:
Sun Apr 22, 2018 4:28 pm
We were a point behind Middlesbrough and 6 points ahead of Millwall.

Middlesbrough appointed an experienced manager from the Premier League, Millwall stuck with the manager they had.

We sacked our manager and replaced him with a deluded loser, and that's the difference no matter what you say.
Back end of December we lost to the bottom team Birmingham after just scraping a win v Burton who were in the bottom three. We then drew v lowly Forest in a boring 0-0 draw at ER before heading off to Wales & embarrassingly losing to a L2 team in the cup. Onward to Suffolk & were beaten by Mick McCarthy's dour lot. Then in front of full houses at ER we not only concede four goals v Millwall, we repeated the act v Cardiff, it was like Grayson times all over again. In between those games we went to 4th bottom Hull & scraped another 0-0 boring draw where we created nothing of any note on a freezing cold night
The second rut of the season was well & truly rolling all because our top management had got it wrong from day one providing us with one of the worst teams I've seen at Leeds

Look above TC & PH for the deluded losers Clive

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Re: Orta on his way

Post by faaip » Sun Apr 22, 2018 4:47 pm

gessa wrote:
Sun Apr 22, 2018 4:23 pm
I would probably say the goalkeeper situation lost TC his job.
We started the season brightly and Wiedwald hardly had a save to make but still looked shakey on the few occasions he was called upon, but let's not forget 4 of the 5 wins were against teams who now sit in the bottom 5. As soon as we started playing the better teams his frailties really showed and the confidence seemed to drain from the defence,he was finally replaced by one no better than him,obviously not the only problem but definitely a main contribution imo.
It was a factor but one of many for me.
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Re: Orta on his way

Post by 1964white » Sun Apr 22, 2018 4:50 pm

gessa wrote:
Sun Apr 22, 2018 4:23 pm
I would probably say the goalkeeper situation lost TC his job.
We started the season brightly and Wiedwald hardly had a save to make but still looked shakey on the few occasions he was called upon, but let's not forget 4 of the 5 wins were against teams who now sit in the bottom 5. As soon as we started playing the better teams his frailties really showed and the confidence seemed to drain from the defence,he was finally replaced by one no better than him,obviously not the only problem but definitely a main contribution imo.
Here we go a man talking some sense :clape: :supbo:

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Re: Orta on his way

Post by weasel » Sun Apr 22, 2018 5:10 pm

danhirons wrote:
Sun Apr 22, 2018 4:16 pm
So hypocritical. You say you can't judge players properly in such a short period of time and yet have judged forshaw as a good buy. For four or five million from another championship team it was hardly the most brilliant scouting I've ever seen.

Poor:
Cibicki
Sacko
Wiedwald
Anita
De bock
Klich
Lonergan
Borthwick Jackson

Ekuban and grot have not really shown much promise.

Lassogga been unbelievably average

Roberts injured the while time he's been here

Alioski been average. Saiz dropped off but admittedly looks a good find though he's not a young guy
Glad you at least named them rather than 64 who just hides behind hyperbole.

Forshaw I think it is easier to judge because he has not needed time to settle with being british and having played a lot of matches. Certainly less of a gamble type signing but the fee reflects that as it was probably more than we'd pay for a similar signing from abroad. Nevertheless a good signing fro what we have seen.

Cibicki - Certainly looks lightweight but did have a few decent matches and looked like he had a good cross. Many raving about him at the time. But he needs to toughen up which is where acclimatising to the league is essential. There looks to be a good player in there just ask PJ who rates him, and I would certainly not say he is a bad signing yet.

Sacko - Yes I would agree he is a bad signing although As he arrived before Orta you have to wonder if it was a) an agreed deal and we couldn't get out of it (remember Cellino used to insist on clauses to enable him to convert the loan to a buy and it may have already been triggered or b) perhaps TC saw some potential in hi and suggested to Orta to sign him. As such maybe not an Orta signing as such - although that is me just speculating. However for whatever reasons a bad signing as 2 years on he has made no progress.

FW - Yes overall a bad signing although like I have mentioned about Man City and Guardiola a ball playing keeper was essential to the style of play. City got it wrong first time and we did too.

Anita - Hard to be overly critical as he has played out of position and on the wrong side - but hey as free signings go we have made a lot worse in the past - Billy Paynter etc

DeBock - Crikey yes he had 2 or 3 bad games but he went from not playing at his former club to suddenly thrust into the team and having to get used to a different style and tempo of football. Had a couple of decent games too so far too early to write him off yet. Let's see what he is like with a full pre-season with the team.

Klich - Hard to know as TC obviously didn't rate him. According to a lot of the 'experts' on here he is a brilliant player though. Might yet be a player for us next season.

Lonerghan - well what do you really expect us to get for a free signing that is signed to be a substitute? Hardly like we were signing the new DeGea. We have had worse back up keepers, Rabchucka for example

CBJ - Not a permanent signing so the fact he was awful for us to me makes it a good decision that we didn't actually sign him on a transfer - same goes for Lasogga and Pennington probably have not done enough to justify us trying to make the deals permanent.

Ekuban & Roberts - You can hardly say they are bad signings especially Roberts. Ekuban has had 2 bad injuries to contend with so judge him after he has had a good run of games - a good preseason with less pressure could see him get his confidence back. Roberts could be anything. Certainly wouldn't say either is a bad signing.

Grot - Like I have mentioned before he is 19 and playing in a strange league etc. Give the lad time and he could be amazing. Ronaldo took 2 or 3 seasons to really start to show his promise for Man Utd.

All in all it is more a case of players not yet proven either way than being absolutely awful signings.
Senor El Weasel

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Re: Orta on his way

Post by Clive » Sun Apr 22, 2018 5:34 pm

1964white wrote:
Sun Apr 22, 2018 4:46 pm
Back end of December we lost to the bottom team Birmingham after just scraping a win v Burton who were in the bottom three. We then drew v lowly Forest in a boring 0-0 draw at ER before heading off to Wales & embarrassingly losing to a L2 team in the cup. Onward to Suffolk & were beaten by Mick McCarthy's dour lot. Then in front of full houses at ER we not only concede four goals v Millwall, we repeated the act v Cardiff, it was like Grayson times all over again. In between those games we went to 4th bottom Hull & scraped another 0-0 boring draw where we created nothing of any note on a freezing cold night
The second rut of the season was well & truly rolling all because our top management had got it wrong from day one providing us with one of the worst teams I've seen at Leeds

Look above TC & PH for the deluded losers Clive
I never said Christiansen was a deluded loser. It's you who always lumps both managers in together when you want to be critical, but then you praise Heckingbottom individually.

We need Radrizzani out of this club, but he's only a deluded loser if his genuine intention is to get the club promoted. If he just wants lower expectations in order to raise them again and continue to rake in cash from ticket sales and merchandise without ever having to invest in a top quality team then he's winning, and fans like you are letting him.

With the squad we have we should be in that group of teams who are within 3 points off the play-offs, but the manager change destroyed our season.

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Re: Orta on his way

Post by 1964white » Sun Apr 22, 2018 6:15 pm

weasel wrote:
Sun Apr 22, 2018 5:10 pm
Glad you at least named them rather than 64 who just hides behind hyperbole.
Not hiding behind anything, just fed up with all the rhetorical cr*p some of you post up

Get to some games then you'll see how poor our squad really is. I can't be wrong because the 80+ fans I travel with week in week out all think the same.

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Re: Orta on his way

Post by Genghers » Sun Apr 22, 2018 7:17 pm

I'd say the majority of the signings haven't had time to prove themselves good or bad.

Grot and Cibicki were stated as signings for the future, and I hardly think it's Jay-Roy's fault that he's getting stuck out on the wing rather than his more natural berth as a target man (I know he's played wide at youth level).

Alioski and Saiz have been excellent at times, especially Samu who people couldn't get enough of before his suspension. I think the Championship is a big step for players who come over from lower European leagues - lots of fixtures, more physical etc. and I think we will see more consistency from them next season if they stay.

De Bock is a funny one. A few solid performances and a few dodgy ones. Is he injured now? Think we'll have a better idea about him after preseason.

CBJ was crap, but also a young loaner, so I'm not sure what we were expecting? Was clearly coming as cover for an LB who only materialised in Jan.

Klich has hardly had a kick and I expect him to be our the door in summer. Anita has been poor, even when playing at RB. Thought he'd be steady away as he has the experience, but I'm not sure hes committed enough.

Lasogga has been a disappointment considering his pedigree. I spoke to a German friend of mine when he signed who said he'd had problems with fitness and he is "an idiot off the field", so that tempered my expectations of him anyway. Loan = no damage done as he won't be back.

Ekuban has some of the right attributes and has been unlucky with injuries, but he's not impressed in the last few games particularly.


Really don't think we should be gutting this team by any means. Cut off some of the fat and add a couple more pieces to the spine and we probably have a chance.

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Re: Orta on his way

Post by faaip » Sun Apr 22, 2018 9:53 pm

Genghers wrote:
Sun Apr 22, 2018 7:17 pm
I'd say the majority of the signings haven't had time to prove themselves good or bad.

Grot and Cibicki were stated as signings for the future, and I hardly think it's Jay-Roy's fault that he's getting stuck out on the wing rather than his more natural berth as a target man (I know he's played wide at youth level).

Alioski and Saiz have been excellent at times, especially Samu who people couldn't get enough of before his suspension. I think the Championship is a big step for players who come over from lower European leagues - lots of fixtures, more physical etc. and I think we will see more consistency from them next season if they stay.

De Bock is a funny one. A few solid performances and a few dodgy ones. Is he injured now? Think we'll have a better idea about him after preseason.

CBJ was crap, but also a young loaner, so I'm not sure what we were expecting? Was clearly coming as cover for an LB who only materialised in Jan.

Klich has hardly had a kick and I expect him to be our the door in summer. Anita has been poor, even when playing at RB. Thought he'd be steady away as he has the experience, but I'm not sure hes committed enough.

Lasogga has been a disappointment considering his pedigree. I spoke to a German friend of mine when he signed who said he'd had problems with fitness and he is "an idiot off the field", so that tempered my expectations of him anyway. Loan = no damage done as he won't be back.

Ekuban has some of the right attributes and has been unlucky with injuries, but he's not impressed in the last few games particularly.


Really don't think we should be gutting this team by any means. Cut off some of the fat and add a couple more pieces to the spine and we probably have a chance.
De Bock is injured ..you're kind of making an argument for Heckingbottom with that post. Unintentionally probably, but still
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