17% forum backing for Paul Heckingbottom

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PH Sack him or back him?

Poll ended at Mon May 14, 2018 5:36 pm

Sack him now
18
60%
Sack him at the end of the season
7
23%
Keep him and let him be the manager next season
5
17%
 
Total votes: 30

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Re: PH Sack him or back him?

Post by NorfolkWhite » Sun Apr 15, 2018 5:34 pm

1964white wrote:
Sun Apr 15, 2018 12:43 pm
Pablo ?

With regards to Phllips.....Christiansen also dropped him as his form tailed off after his impressive start to the season
Sorry missed the Pablo part, not sure he’s a better player this year but he is one of our most professional and established and kept going better than most. If that is where our coaching staff have been applying themselves they are surely not the right people for the job :duno:

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Re: PH Sack him or back him?

Post by Dalton » Mon Apr 16, 2018 9:17 am

2018 has brought us 12 points from 18 games.

not even relegation form. More like bottom of the table by a long way form.

I would say the Captain could/should do better on his own organising the troops to perform and do better than the manager has but even the captain cant stay on the pitch.
My my my, such a lot of guns around town and so few brains

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Re: PH Sack him or back him?

Post by 1964white » Mon Apr 16, 2018 9:23 am

Dalton wrote:
Mon Apr 16, 2018 9:17 am
2018 has brought us 12 points from 18 games.

not even relegation form. More like bottom of the table by a long way form.

I would say the Captain could/should do better on his own organising the troops to perform and do better than the manager has but even the captain cant stay on the pitch.
Should never have been captain in the first place

Who's to blame for that ?

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Re: PH Sack him or back him?

Post by weasel » Wed Apr 18, 2018 2:41 pm

1964white wrote:
Mon Apr 16, 2018 9:23 am
Should never have been captain in the first place

Who's to blame for that ?
The players - they were supposedly asked to vote and chose him - shows that for whatever reasons they see him as a leader. Not many other options at the time really as Bartley had gone. Only other real contenders were Jannson, Hernandez and Wood. Now 2 out of those other 3 options only speak English as a second language o communication might not have always been easy and perhaps the players knew Wood was likely to be leaving. Not saying Cooper would have been my choice but you can see why the players would have chosen him.
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Re: PH Sack him or back him?

Post by SG90 » Wed Apr 18, 2018 4:45 pm

weasel wrote:
Wed Apr 18, 2018 2:41 pm
The players - they were supposedly asked to vote and chose him - shows that for whatever reasons they see him as a leader. Not many other options at the time really as Bartley had gone. Only other real contenders were Jannson, Hernandez and Wood. Now 2 out of those other 3 options only speak English as a second language o communication might not have always been easy and perhaps the players knew Wood was likely to be leaving. Not saying Cooper would have been my choice but you can see why the players would have chosen him.
Pontus' English is pretty good, I struggle to understand Pablo though. I think captain was Bridcutt last year.

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Re: PH Sack him or back him?

Post by weasel » Thu Apr 19, 2018 1:37 pm

SG90 wrote:
Wed Apr 18, 2018 4:45 pm
Pontus' English is pretty good, I struggle to understand Pablo though. I think captain was Bridcutt last year.
PJ's is pretty good but still his second language so you then have the situation of him using his second language trying to communicate with others who have english as a second language or just a basic grasp of english. Yeah think Bridcutt was captain with Bartley vice captain but it did seem like Bartley acted more like the captain in terms of driving the team etc
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Re: PH Sack him or back him?

Post by danhirons » Thu Apr 19, 2018 2:02 pm

SG90 wrote:
Sun Apr 15, 2018 12:48 pm
Because we didn't show enough ambition and I blame AR for that. We decided to give Cooper a 4 year deal instead, when if we'd signed Helander, we'd be top 6 right now. Helander is on £4k a week and is ooc in 2019, Adam and Hernandez are ooc this summer, so we have no excuses not to look at them.
Errr no we wouldn't. If he was any good he wouldn't be going from bologna to leeds he'd be going from bologna to a prem team. He's hardly set the world alight at bologna

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Re: PH Sack him or back him?

Post by Cjay » Thu Apr 19, 2018 2:57 pm

danhirons wrote:
Thu Apr 19, 2018 2:02 pm
Errr no we wouldn't. If he was any good he wouldn't be going from bologna to leeds he'd be going from bologna to a prem team. He's hardly set the world alight at bologna
A regular for Bologna this season, something Pontus never achieved at Torino.

No clue if he is good or not but good enough for a team in a higher league and for the nation ranked 25th in the world.

Think its fair to assume we'd be in better shape with him then we are now surely?

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Re: 19% forum backing for Paul Heckingbottom

Post by fred » Thu Apr 19, 2018 2:58 pm

weasel wrote:
Sat Apr 14, 2018 5:36 pm
Okay just over a month ago I ran the poll and Sack him got 47% of the vote and Back him got 53% of the vote. Just seeing what public opinion is now and have also added another option.
To little options for me. Should have added the alternatives: `whatever` and `if a better manager is available`.

Whatever...

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Re: 19% forum backing for Paul Heckingbottom

Post by weasel » Thu Apr 19, 2018 8:16 pm

fred wrote:
Thu Apr 19, 2018 2:58 pm
To little options for me. Should have added the alternatives: `whatever` and `if a better manager is available`.

Whatever...
Would struggle to find a manager who has done worse then PH this season.
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Re: 19% forum backing for Paul Heckingbottom

Post by fred » Fri Apr 20, 2018 12:07 pm

weasel wrote:
Thu Apr 19, 2018 8:16 pm
Would struggle to find a manager who has done worse then PH this season.
That would be indeed the argument which would make the sacking of Heck look intelligent whatever (follows.) That is: If it is a fair refletion of what he can achieve whatver (club, players etc., he haad a good spell at Barnsley I believe).
And you could be right with your statement. Hard to ague against it. But all the same: would come as a surprise to me if
he got sacked....would make Radz and Orta look very stupid. (As would keeping him maybe...if our results/performances are bad enough in the last games he just might get the sack...so maybe there`s still hope for those wanting him out.)

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Re: 19% forum backing for Paul Heckingbottom

Post by weasel » Fri Apr 20, 2018 1:00 pm

fred wrote:
Fri Apr 20, 2018 12:07 pm
he haad a good spell at Barnsley I believe).
The trouble for me is that his good spell came at the start when the team was already playing well and winning (the previous manager doing well and then leaving when offered the Bristol City manager job). As such it is very easy to wonder if the team simply kept on doing what they were doing irrespective of the manager. Then as PH's time in charge increased the results started tailing off - again you have to wonder is that because of the way he managed (did he alienate players, were his tactics poor, could he not motivate players etc). The end of his time there saw them winning just 1 or 2 in the last 16 and losing 4 (and drawing 1) of his last 5 matches. The team was in complete free fall and the only excuse seemed to be that some of the better players were sold - but for me it just seems like a convenient excuse, like the ones he is trotting out before and after every match here, as all clubs lose decent players be they sold or injured but good managers still manage to get results. It wasn't like he was getting good results despite them selling the best players he was staring at relegation with 27 points from 30 matches this season. PH talks about overachieving but he was not overachieving in any way at Barnsley.

That for me is why I am concerned and think the longer he is in charge the worse we will become. I dread the thought of him bringing in his own players because if that is what he was doing at Barnsley then he has either failed to replace the players that left with decent championship level players or he has failed to get the most out of them - so either way he has failed.

When looking at managers I don't care so much if they have had a bad spell, even a relegation, if they have shown signs of being able to identify the problems, overcome them and then get the team performing again. I have seen no sign of that with PH who's Barnsley side have plummeted for over a calendar year after his initial honeymoon period was over.

I keep saying that I want to see a decent team performance, rather than a result, from the team. This would indicate that either he is a) able to come up with good tactics or b) motivate the players and get the best out of them (or possibly either a & b). We just haven't seen that. At best we played decent for spells in some matches but that isn't enough, especially in matches where we were already losing or playing against poor teams.

The only reasons I hear for keeping him are feeble at best -

1) He needs more time - nothing in his record shows that given time he can succeed in fact the longer he was at Barnsley the worse it became

2) He is highly regarded - by whom? Sorry but anyone can be highly regarded but at some point they have to show what they can do. This is a results business and if you can't get results you have to at least show that you are at least moving in the right direction with performances - so that people say, 'oh they were unlucky but when it clicks they will be a good side.'

3) He has inherited a poor squad of players - yes some of our players aren't great but how can anyone use that excuse when they were doing better before he came.

These are flimsy excuses for why he is doing cr*p but not reasons to keep him.
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Re: 19% forum backing for Paul Heckingbottom

Post by lufc1304 » Fri Apr 20, 2018 1:05 pm

What weasel said :tup:
"When the going gets weird, the weird get professional!" Hunter S Thompson

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Re: 19% forum backing for Paul Heckingbottom

Post by Ronan » Fri Apr 20, 2018 1:25 pm

I have never felt as out of touch with Leeds United since i started supporting them...that makes me quite sad :(
Most plagiarists, like the drone, have neither taste to select, industry to acquire, nor skill to improve, but impudently pilfer the honey ready prepared, from the hive......

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Re: 19% forum backing for Paul Heckingbottom

Post by lufc1304 » Fri Apr 20, 2018 2:11 pm

Ronan wrote:
Fri Apr 20, 2018 1:25 pm
I have never felt as out of touch with Leeds United since i started supporting them...that makes me quite sad :(
Feel the same, Ronan. Been a supporter of this club for over 40 years, and I don't think I've ever felt as disillusioned as I do at the minute. 80s relegation, even the meltdown in 04, these had a unifying effect on the club and the fanbase, a determination to get back to where we believed we belonged. Feels like an awfully long time ago now. There ARE positives around the club; U18s have a chance of winning their league, U23s playing some lovely stuff with a few players looking like they might make the grade, ER back in our hands etc. But at the sharp end, we are about to finish yet another season with a whimper when, for half a season, it looked like there was a chance of a bang at the end. Our senior management panicked when our coach, who had us playing some good stuff (and some not so good stuff), came unstuck and was struggling to turn things around. Instead of staying calm, they played to the gallery, sacked the manager and made, with the possible exception of Dave Hockaday, the most uninspiring appointment I can remember. This season can't finish soon enough, though I dread to think what next season will bring if we stick with this clown.
"When the going gets weird, the weird get professional!" Hunter S Thompson

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Re: 19% forum backing for Paul Heckingbottom

Post by Cjay » Fri Apr 20, 2018 2:47 pm

lufc1304 wrote:
Fri Apr 20, 2018 2:11 pm
Feel the same, Ronan. Been a supporter of this club for over 40 years, and I don't think I've ever felt as disillusioned as I do at the minute. 80s relegation, even the meltdown in 04, these had a unifying effect on the club and the fanbase, a determination to get back to where we believed we belonged. Feels like an awfully long time ago now. There ARE positives around the club; U18s have a chance of winning their league, U23s playing some lovely stuff with a few players looking like they might make the grade, ER back in our hands etc. But at the sharp end, we are about to finish yet another season with a whimper when, for half a season, it looked like there was a chance of a bang at the end. Our senior management panicked when our coach, who had us playing some good stuff (and some not so good stuff), came unstuck and was struggling to turn things around. Instead of staying calm, they played to the gallery, sacked the manager and made, with the possible exception of Dave Hockaday, the most uninspiring appointment I can remember. This season can't finish soon enough, though I dread to think what next season will bring if we stick with this clown.
The Hock had a better Points per game and win ratio :oops:

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Re: 19% forum backing for Paul Heckingbottom

Post by Cjay » Fri Apr 20, 2018 2:55 pm

You know what is interesting.

Our form is the 22nd worst in the league under Hecky.

Have a guess where we would be if the results Hecky has had this season were all as our manager?

22nd. 37 points, thats his record this season, 1 point BELOW Barnsley.

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Re: 17% forum backing for Paul Heckingbottom

Post by Muppet the Cat » Fri Apr 20, 2018 7:59 pm

Re: 19% forum backing for Paul Heckingbottom
Quote

Post
by Ronan » Fri Apr 20, 2018 1:25 pm
I have never felt as out of touch with Leeds United since i started supporting them...that makes me quite sad

Completely agree Ronan

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Re: 17% forum backing for Paul Heckingbottom

Post by Clive » Fri Apr 20, 2018 8:08 pm

I actually felt more connected than for a long time at the start of the season, as soon as Heckingbottom came in that was it.

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Re: 19% forum backing for Paul Heckingbottom

Post by fred » Fri Apr 20, 2018 8:45 pm

Cjay wrote:
Fri Apr 20, 2018 2:47 pm
The Hock had a better Points per game and win ratio :oops:
What I`m saying all the time: offer he Job to the Hock!

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