No Quick Fix.

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gessa
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No Quick Fix.

Post by gessa » Thu Apr 12, 2018 9:18 am

There are many words one can use to describe your feelings for being a Leeds United supporter. One that many of us will feel is frustration, the frustration of at the end of each season saying, we just need to add 3 quality players but instead seeing quality leave and so we then need 5/6 quality players, we managed to fill the void on occasion with the likes of Cook, Byram etc coming through the ranks earlier than anticipated, only to see them sold too.
On few occasions we have been the nearly men, Watford play off final being the closest, Grayson and Monk both finishing 7th, another thing they have in common, is they both wanted a couple of good signings in January , both were denied their wishes, consequently we failed both times. There is nothing to suggest if either had have got there way we would have made it but surely our chances would have been greater if they had and the powers had shown greater ambition.
One thing we never seem to have is a long term plan, a quick turn over of managers shows this, Have we ever chosen the right man for the job? A good few of our players in the last dozen years have gone on to greater things, playing in the Premiership, a few getting international caps but not one of our managers have gone on to greater things, Warnock maybe the exception if he gets Cardiff up but non of the others have come close, so do we choose the wrong one's or do we destroy everyone that comes here. Why do we scrimp and save and choose so badly in perhaps the most important position at any club.
The season is coming to an end and we now seem furthur away than ever, we have another at the helm who seems way out of his depth, we have half a squad of players who just aren't up to the job. Isn't about time we got a long time plan in place, it's time to realise there is no quick fix, look at teams who have gone up by having a long term strategy and haven't done it throwing millions at it, clubs like Burnley and Bournemouth both got the man they wanted in charge and slowly built a team around the manager, players the managers picked to suit their style.
I think as a club if we are serious we need to pick a manager that is right for the job, not scrimp and save on a few grand wages, a manager with a plan who as some pedigree, one who is allowed to bring in 4 players over the summer that will fill the voids we have, players who'll steady the ship, then each window allow him one or two more to get us where we want to be , we can't carry on as we are, it's getting us nowhere.

The man for me is Slavan Billic, has the pedigree, plays the game as it should be, as worked with Kinnear before. Things didn't go well this season but West Ham are a club with problems so there is likely more to that than meets the eye.
Anyone with a long memory knows it's a lie, double standards.
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Re: No Quick Fix.

Post by HarryofOz » Thu Apr 12, 2018 9:36 am

gessa wrote:
Thu Apr 12, 2018 9:18 am
There are many words one can use to describe your feelings for being a Leeds United supporter. One that many of us will feel is frustration, the frustration of at the end of each season saying, we just need to add 3 quality players but instead seeing quality leave and so we then need 5/6 quality players, we managed to fill the void on occasion with the likes of Cook, Byram etc coming through the ranks earlier than anticipated, only to see them sold too.
On few occasions we have been the nearly men, Watford play off final being the closest, Grayson and Monk both finishing 7th, another thing they have in common, is they both wanted a couple of good signings in January , both were denied their wishes, consequently we failed both times. There is nothing to suggest if either had have got there way we would have made it but surely our chances would have been greater if they had and the powers had shown greater ambition.
One thing we never seem to have is a long term plan, a quick turn over of managers shows this, Have we ever chosen the right man for the job? A good few of our players in the last dozen years have gone on to greater things, playing in the Premiership, a few getting international caps but not one of our managers have gone on to greater things, Warnock maybe the exception if he gets Cardiff up but non of the others have come close, so do we choose the wrong one's or do we destroy everyone that comes here. Why do we scrimp and save and choose so badly in perhaps the most important position at any club.
The season is coming to an end and we now seem furthur away than ever, we have another at the helm who seems way out of his depth, we have half a squad of players who just aren't up to the job. Isn't about time we got a long time plan in place, it's time to realise there is no quick fix, look at teams who have gone up by having a long term strategy and haven't done it throwing millions at it, clubs like Burnley and Bournemouth both got the man they wanted in charge and slowly built a team around the manager, players the managers picked to suit their style.
I think as a club if we are serious we need to pick a manager that is right for the job, not scrimp and save on a few grand wages, a manager with a plan who as some pedigree, one who is allowed to bring in 4 players over the summer that will fill the voids we have, players who'll steady the ship, then each window allow him one or two more to get us where we want to be , we can't carry on as we are, it's getting us nowhere.

The man for me is Slavan Billic, has the pedigree, plays the game as it should be, as worked with Kinnear before. Things didn't go well this season but West Ham are a club with problems so there is likely more to that than meets the eye.
I agree we need to invest to succeed. A strong and high quality manager and a few quality players in key positions.

And unless we look like we're heading for relegation, still with the manager till the end of the season at least. And unless we are very very poor (but manage to avoid going down) and there is nearly no chance of improvement, stick with the manager for the next season.
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Re: No Quick Fix.

Post by faaip » Thu Apr 12, 2018 11:04 am

We were close last season, then we changed Owner, DoF and manager, getting the latter wrong imo. Still even had we got that right we'd be looking at yet another rebuild taking 3 more years.

That said I don't think we're far off and most are too critical of our players

We need a keeper preferably not one who key asset is he can roll the ball out to a defender - BPF as back up
Ayling is back next season and if he's coached up correctly he can return to his form under Monk - Beradi or Coyle as back up
We need a left back, but it's probably not an essential need with Pearce and Denton coming through
Jansson stays - Cooper backs him up
We need a partner alongside PJ and it's probably one of the three key areas we need to spend money along with keeper and striker

Alioski on the wing I'm happy with, start winning and he'll be a key player for us.
Saiz on the other side I'm also ok with especially playing a little narrower

Vierra will get the season hopefully, there's the ceiling there to be our best player in years and he grows by the game
Forshaw - Give him the captains armband and he'll provide a stabilizing factor
Hernandez, - one more season please Pablo but in you preferred number 10 role, Saiz to fill in if injured

We need a striker, a bit of a one player does it all type. I don't want a fast 5'7 player nor do we need a 6'5 target man who can't hit the back of the net

Roofe, BPF, Beradi, Cooper, De Bock, Pennington, Sacko, Dallas, Ekuban and Grot are all bench possibilites.

Ekuban, Shaughnessy and Grot with a season behind them will improve

Klich (if he returns and he should,) Ideguchi and Roberts - should be first team threats

and then the best raft of youngsters we've probably ever had will start to come through - RB - Bryce Hossanah, CB's - Diaz, Oriel Ray, Olly Casey and Aapo Halme, CMF's - Romario Vierra and Jamie Shackleton. AMF's - Jack Clarke and Robbie Gotts and forwards - Ryan Edmundson, Sam Dalby, Adrian Balboa, Olivier Sarkic and Kun Temenuzhkov

And there are others

TBH with that talent around I'm finding it hard to be pessimistic, but break all that up and getting rid of a lot will mean adding 10-12 more players into the mix and starting on the merry go round again of needing a season to bed them all in

Weidwald, Lassoga, Cibicki and Lonergan can move on for me, maybe one or two others if we get a good price. Add a manager who we can all get behind (I'm not sure that's possible) But we need to build from this base we cannot keep digging away the foundations just because the colour on the walls is wrong.

Stick with your plan Rads at least for a while yet
"The Autumn Wind is a Raider,
Pillaging just for fun.
He'll knock you 'round and upside down,
And laugh when he's conquered and won."


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Re: No Quick Fix.

Post by Cjay » Thu Apr 12, 2018 2:05 pm

I agree with both.

This high turnover of managers must stop, we end up with a mishmash of players suited to different styles, thats why i liked the Radz Barcelona thing, but then he abandoned it when he appointed SoggyBottom.

He needs to go back to a manager who can follow that plan, go back to the plan last summer, whether thats Bilic, Garcia, Smith, McCarthy (it certainly isnt him), Pardew (or him) Lee Johnson etc.

Whoever it is appoint them early.

Let them bring in all there own training staff, fitness coaches, goalkeeping coaches etc, if they dont want some coaching staff then they go, thats it, no discussion, the manager picks the coaches.

Then have an open meeting with the players, 1st team, then u23s, then u18s.

New manager, Orta, Radz, Angus Kinny, the 4 of them all explain there ideas to the players, and ask for feedback, open honest feedback from the players, no comebacks, say whatever they want.

After that Radz takes Jansson, Saiz, Hernandez, Ayling, Vieira, Alioski into his office and talks honestly with them, explains what has gone wrong in his opinion, and listens to there opinions. .

Then Radz sells the club to Pablo and Jansson, Victor can come in for this bit because he can explain how he is going to improve things, perhaps see if Pablo and Jansson have ideas for signings ( no obligation but if Jansson feels he would form a good partnership with Helender for example, then Orta should look into this).

Pablo should be offered a coaching role with his new contract or after his retirement, show some good will, prove how much his contribution has been appreciated and if he does have his heart set on returning to Spain let Pablo explain that to the fan, not Orta, not Radz, it'll be better received coming from the man himself.

Then new manager spends a few weeks studying the u23s and u18s, talking to Adam Underwood and Carlos Corberan, hearing there views on the players, whose ready, whose not, what there best position is, how to manage them etc everything.

As well as this the new manager hands Victor a list of targets, not positions, actual transfer targets he wants, players, named on a bit of paper, and Victor toddles off to have them scouted and studied.

Then he has a meeting with Radz and the new manager and they discuss what Victor has found on these players, they discuss if they are available, cost estimates etc, and Radz gives his opinion, if the club cant afford it then and only then does Orta go searching for alternatives.

And he only goes looking for alternatives of his own back after asking the new manager if HE has any alternatives.

Orta works for the manager in my plan.

And finally, this manager gets his contract length to sort it out, be that 2 or 3 years, unless it goes drastically wrong and we are in serious danger of relegation then he isnt sacked at all. Radz protects the manager and Orta does to, they handle the PR, thats there role, if its not going well yes the manager explains himself, but Orta and Radz support him fully.

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Re: No Quick Fix.

Post by NorfolkWhite » Thu Apr 12, 2018 2:17 pm

faaip wrote:
Thu Apr 12, 2018 11:04 am
We were close last season, then we changed Owner, DoF and manager, getting the latter wrong imo. Still even had we got that right we'd be looking at yet another rebuild taking 3 more years.

That said I don't think we're far off and most are too critical of our players

We need a keeper preferably not one who key asset is he can roll the ball out to a defender - BPF as back up
Ayling is back next season and if he's coached up correctly he can return to his form under Monk - Beradi or Coyle as back up
We need a left back, but it's probably not an essential need with Pearce and Denton coming through
Jansson stays - Cooper backs him up
We need a partner alongside PJ and it's probably one of the three key areas we need to spend money along with keeper and striker

Alioski on the wing I'm happy with, start winning and he'll be a key player for us.
Saiz on the other side I'm also ok with especially playing a little narrower

Vierra will get the season hopefully, there's the ceiling there to be our best player in years and he grows by the game
Forshaw - Give him the captains armband and he'll provide a stabilizing factor
Hernandez, - one more season please Pablo but in you preferred number 10 role, Saiz to fill in if injured

We need a striker, a bit of a one player does it all type. I don't want a fast 5'7 player nor do we need a 6'5 target man who can't hit the back of the net

Roofe, BPF, Beradi, Cooper, De Bock, Pennington, Sacko, Dallas, Ekuban and Grot are all bench possibilites.

Ekuban, Shaughnessy and Grot with a season behind them will improve

Klich (if he returns and he should,) Ideguchi and Roberts - should be first team threats

and then the best raft of youngsters we've probably ever had will start to come through - RB - Bryce Hossanah, CB's - Diaz, Oriel Ray, Olly Casey and Aapo Halme, CMF's - Romario Vierra and Jamie Shackleton. AMF's - Jack Clarke and Robbie Gotts and forwards - Ryan Edmundson, Sam Dalby, Adrian Balboa, Olivier Sarkic and Kun Temenuzhkov

And there are others

TBH with that talent around I'm finding it hard to be pessimistic, but break all that up and getting rid of a lot will mean adding 10-12 more players into the mix and starting on the merry go round again of needing a season to bed them all in

Weidwald, Lassoga, Cibicki and Lonergan can move on for me, maybe one or two others if we get a good price. Add a manager who we can all get behind (I'm not sure that's possible) But we need to build from this base we cannot keep digging away the foundations just because the colour on the walls is wrong.

Stick with your plan Rads at least for a while yet
What a top post :tup:

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Re: No Quick Fix.

Post by faaip » Thu Apr 12, 2018 2:26 pm

NorfolkWhite wrote:
Thu Apr 12, 2018 2:17 pm
What a top post :tup:
thank you sir
"The Autumn Wind is a Raider,
Pillaging just for fun.
He'll knock you 'round and upside down,
And laugh when he's conquered and won."


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Re: No Quick Fix.

Post by lufc1304 » Thu Apr 12, 2018 3:09 pm

Ges, faaip and Cjay, top posts all. Radz, if you do read this forum, the above is your blueprint for getting us back on the right road
"When the going gets weird, the weird get professional!" Hunter S Thompson

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Re: No Quick Fix.

Post by Azkalwhite » Thu Apr 12, 2018 3:42 pm

lufc1304 wrote:
Thu Apr 12, 2018 3:09 pm
Ges, faaip and Cjay, top posts all. Radz, if you do read this forum, the above is your blueprint for getting us back on the right road
This :tup: Ahhhh bliss, at last unemotional common sense prevails

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Re: No Quick Fix.

Post by fred » Thu Apr 12, 2018 3:49 pm

NorfolkWhite wrote:
Thu Apr 12, 2018 2:17 pm
What a top post :tup:
Over the top if you ask me. I`ve read about this ocean of talent before just waiting to get into action...I recommend to stay calm,
no need for talking the squad worse or better than it is at this point.
Viera in my eyes totally overhyped at this moment in time to name just one contradicting evaluation. He must improve a great deal to become an over average Championship midfielder. It`s actually impossible to say if and what improvements players will achieve. Viera might stagnate and never get much better than he is now, but then he could become a relly good midfielder also...young age as such doesn`t guarantee for ongoing improvement in regard to some qualities. Experience usually makes a player better without necessary including that he has got better as a footballer...that is in regard to his basic football skills. (Wiedwald a good example. The chance that he will develope the ability to controll his goal area...catching crosses etc...is almost zero. Such basic skills you learn or have the talent as a young player in 95% of the cases.)

Not trying to be negative. With the best players staying and staying fit (!) and adding 2-3 proven quality players (a sine qua non!!!!!!!!!...striker and CB top of the list), we could have a reasonable squad for next season.

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Re: No Quick Fix.

Post by NorfolkWhite » Thu Apr 12, 2018 4:21 pm

fred wrote:
Thu Apr 12, 2018 3:49 pm
Over the top if you ask me. I`ve read about this ocean of talent before just waiting to get into action...I recommend to stay calm,
no need for talking the squad worse or better than it is at this point.
Viera in my eyes totally overhyped at this moment in time to name just one contradicting evaluation. He must improve a great deal to become an over average Championship midfielder. It`s actually impossible to say if and what improvements players will achieve. Viera might stagnate and never get much better than he is now, but then he could become a relly good midfielder also...young age as such doesn`t guarantee for ongoing improvement in regard to some qualities. Experience usually makes a player better without necessary including that he has got better as a footballer...that is in regard to his basic football skills. (Wiedwald a good example. The chance that he will develope the ability to controll his goal area...catching crosses etc...is almost zero. Such basic skills you learn or have the talent as a young player in 95% of the cases.)
But the counter is also true - we are far too qyuick to write players off as not good enough, look at what Bamba is doing at Cardiff, bloody hell even Morison has been a mainstay in a side that is in the playoffs. The point is if we get the coaching, development and management right we will get the best out of the players we have available, Not all of them will go on to be world beaters but using Vieira as the example I can’t help but think if he were to leave it would be a decision we would be rueing for a hell of a long time to come as he shone in another promotion achieving squad. I’m convinced neither TC and definitely not Heck were close to getting the best out of that squad either in actual results or in developing potential and that’s the most damning indictment of both of them, I could take Heck’s results if I thought the players were improving and developing to achieve their potential.

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Re: No Quick Fix.

Post by 1964white » Thu Apr 12, 2018 5:32 pm

gessa wrote:
Thu Apr 12, 2018 9:18 am
There are many words one can use to describe your feelings for being a Leeds United supporter. One that many of us will feel is frustration, the frustration of at the end of each season saying, we just need to add 3 quality players but instead seeing quality leave and so we then need 5/6 quality players, we managed to fill the void on occasion with the likes of Cook, Byram etc coming through the ranks earlier than anticipated, only to see them sold too.
On few occasions we have been the nearly men, Watford play off final being the closest, Grayson and Monk both finishing 7th, another thing they have in common, is they both wanted a couple of good signings in January , both were denied their wishes, consequently we failed both times. There is nothing to suggest if either had have got there way we would have made it but surely our chances would have been greater if they had and the powers had shown greater ambition.
One thing we never seem to have is a long term plan, a quick turn over of managers shows this, Have we ever chosen the right man for the job? A good few of our players in the last dozen years have gone on to greater things, playing in the Premiership, a few getting international caps but not one of our managers have gone on to greater things, Warnock maybe the exception if he gets Cardiff up but non of the others have come close, so do we choose the wrong one's or do we destroy everyone that comes here. Why do we scrimp and save and choose so badly in perhaps the most important position at any club.
The season is coming to an end and we now seem furthur away than ever, we have another at the helm who seems way out of his depth, we have half a squad of players who just aren't up to the job. Isn't about time we got a long time plan in place, it's time to realise there is no quick fix, look at teams who have gone up by having a long term strategy and haven't done it throwing millions at it, clubs like Burnley and Bournemouth both got the man they wanted in charge and slowly built a team around the manager, players the managers picked to suit their style.
I think as a club if we are serious we need to pick a manager that is right for the job, not scrimp and save on a few grand wages, a manager with a plan who as some pedigree, one who is allowed to bring in 4 players over the summer that will fill the voids we have, players who'll steady the ship, then each window allow him one or two more to get us where we want to be , we can't carry on as we are, it's getting us nowhere.

The man for me is Slavan Billic, has the pedigree, plays the game as it should be, as worked with Kinnear before. Things didn't go well this season but West Ham are a club with problems so there is likely more to that than meets the eye.
Top opening choice mate

I like your choice of manager to take over the reins at ER, great shout :tup:

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Re: No Quick Fix.

Post by 1964white » Thu Apr 12, 2018 5:46 pm

faaip wrote:
Thu Apr 12, 2018 11:04 am
We were close last season, then we changed Owner, DoF and manager, getting the latter wrong imo. Still even had we got that right we'd be looking at yet another rebuild taking 3 more years.

That said I don't think we're far off and most are too critical of our players

We need a keeper preferably not one who key asset is he can roll the ball out to a defender - BPF as back up
Ayling is back next season and if he's coached up correctly he can return to his form under Monk - Beradi or Coyle as back up
We need a left back, but it's probably not an essential need with Pearce and Denton coming through
Jansson stays - Cooper backs him up
We need a partner alongside PJ and it's probably one of the three key areas we need to spend money along with keeper and striker

Alioski on the wing I'm happy with, start winning and he'll be a key player for us.
Saiz on the other side I'm also ok with especially playing a little narrower

Vierra will get the season hopefully, there's the ceiling there to be our best player in years and he grows by the game
Forshaw - Give him the captains armband and he'll provide a stabilizing factor
Hernandez, - one more season please Pablo but in you preferred number 10 role, Saiz to fill in if injured

We need a striker, a bit of a one player does it all type. I don't want a fast 5'7 player nor do we need a 6'5 target man who can't hit the back of the net

Roofe, BPF, Beradi, Cooper, De Bock, Pennington, Sacko, Dallas, Ekuban and Grot are all bench possibilites.

Ekuban, Shaughnessy and Grot with a season behind them will improve

Klich (if he returns and he should,) Ideguchi and Roberts - should be first team threats

and then the best raft of youngsters we've probably ever had will start to come through - RB - Bryce Hossanah, CB's - Diaz, Oriel Ray, Olly Casey and Aapo Halme, CMF's - Romario Vierra and Jamie Shackleton. AMF's - Jack Clarke and Robbie Gotts and forwards - Ryan Edmundson, Sam Dalby, Adrian Balboa, Olivier Sarkic and Kun Temenuzhkov

And there are others

TBH with that talent around I'm finding it hard to be pessimistic, but break all that up and getting rid of a lot will mean adding 10-12 more players into the mix and starting on the merry go round again of needing a season to bed them all in

Weidwald, Lassoga, Cibicki and Lonergan can move on for me, maybe one or two others if we get a good price. Add a manager who we can all get behind (I'm not sure that's possible) But we need to build from this base we cannot keep digging away the foundations just because the colour on the walls is wrong.

Stick with your plan Rads at least for a while yet
I really wish I could share your optimism mate.

The thought of the majority of those 'bench possibilities' makes me shudder & we don't know how good or bad the young kids will turn out to be yet !

Only time will tell

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Re: No Quick Fix.

Post by fred » Thu Apr 12, 2018 6:42 pm

NorfolkWhite wrote:
Thu Apr 12, 2018 4:21 pm
But the counter is also true - we are far too qyuick to write players off as not good enough, look at what Bamba is doing at Cardiff, bloody hell even Morison has been a mainstay in a side that is in the playoffs. The point is if we get the coaching, development and management right we will get the best out of the players we have available, Not all of them will go on to be world beaters but using Vieira as the example I can’t help but think if he were to leave it would be a decision we would be rueing for a hell of a long time to come as he shone in another promotion achieving squad. I’m convinced neither TC and definitely not Heck were close to getting the best out of that squad either in actual results or in developing potential and that’s the most damning indictment of both of them, I could take Heck’s results if I thought the players were improving and developing to achieve their potential.
Yes, it does seem that too many released players have shown what they are worth at other clubs. But does Leeds stand out in regard to this fact in comparison to other clubs? And if yes, is it down to bad coaches? (Let`s not forget the execptions...McCormack...)

Can`t agree on what TC got out of the players (and how could one know that he underachieved?)...at least he seems to be miles ahead in that departement than Heck is at present. But noone knows for sure what the future will bring...therefore I would expect him to be sacked only if replaced by a proven coach able to get the best out of players...lol

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Re: No Quick Fix.

Post by weasel » Thu Apr 12, 2018 7:20 pm

Great post Gessa but for the first time since Wilko's 10 year plan I do think we have got a long term plan which is evidenced by the amount of young players we have brought in and the supposed plans to build a new training ground at ER. Now the long term plan can succeed even if the short term plan regularly fails if enough of the youngsters are good enough as we would end up with a decent team and even a poor manager might be able to succeed - lots of poor managers have happened to become manager of a club at the right time and achieved things because of the quality of players at their disposal rather than their managerial ability (looks to be the case with PH at Barnsley where he inherited a well oiled machine from Lee Johnson and they did well initially as the team would have almost picked itself and they would have all known their roles).

The short term plan though has been a big failure and we do need to see a decent managerial appointment and hopefully they are allowed the time to bring the youth players into the team (rather than fearing for their job so picking an experienced side rather than taking risks).
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Re: No Quick Fix.

Post by HarryofOz » Sat Apr 14, 2018 1:03 am

During the match today, the commentator said that Steve Bruce's home record for his various clubs against Leeds was five wins and three draws. Now six wins of course.

They added that each of those eight games was against a different Leeds' manager, with Heckingbottom now added to that list of newbies,

From memory the last Leeds' manager to start the season as manager for two consecutive seasons was Simon Grayson. I can't think of anyone else since.

That is staggering.
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Re: No Quick Fix.

Post by gessa » Sat Apr 14, 2018 7:22 am

HarryofOz wrote:
Sat Apr 14, 2018 1:03 am
During the match today, the commentator said that Steve Bruce's home record for his various clubs against Leeds was five wins and three draws. Now six wins of course.

They added that each of those eight games was against a different Leeds' manager, with Heckingbottom now added to that list of newbies,

From memory the last Leeds' manager to start the season as manager for two consecutive seasons was Simon Grayson. I can't think of anyone else since.

That is staggering.
It is Harry, just imagine how much it has cost in paying up the contracts of these managers, we could have got a good manager and possibly paid them £20k a week more and it wouldn't have cost the club anymore. I read last week we are still paying Darko's wages until the end of this season, £12k per week.
Anyone with a long memory knows it's a lie, double standards.
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Re: No Quick Fix.

Post by danhirons » Sat Apr 14, 2018 7:50 am

faaip wrote:
Thu Apr 12, 2018 11:04 am
We were close last season, then we changed Owner, DoF and manager, getting the latter wrong imo. Still even had we got that right we'd be looking at yet another rebuild taking 3 more years.

That said I don't think we're far off and most are too critical of our players

We need a keeper preferably not one who key asset is he can roll the ball out to a defender - BPF as back up
Ayling is back next season and if he's coached up correctly he can return to his form under Monk - Beradi or Coyle as back up
We need a left back, but it's probably not an essential need with Pearce and Denton coming through
Jansson stays - Cooper backs him up
We need a partner alongside PJ and it's probably one of the three key areas we need to spend money along with keeper and striker

Alioski on the wing I'm happy with, start winning and he'll be a key player for us.
Saiz on the other side I'm also ok with especially playing a little narrower

Vierra will get the season hopefully, there's the ceiling there to be our best player in years and he grows by the game
Forshaw - Give him the captains armband and he'll provide a stabilizing factor
Hernandez, - one more season please Pablo but in you preferred number 10 role, Saiz to fill in if injured

We need a striker, a bit of a one player does it all type. I don't want a fast 5'7 player nor do we need a 6'5 target man who can't hit the back of the net

Roofe, BPF, Beradi, Cooper, De Bock, Pennington, Sacko, Dallas, Ekuban and Grot are all bench possibilites.

Ekuban, Shaughnessy and Grot with a season behind them will improve

Klich (if he returns and he should,) Ideguchi and Roberts - should be first team threats

and then the best raft of youngsters we've probably ever had will start to come through - RB - Bryce Hossanah, CB's - Diaz, Oriel Ray, Olly Casey and Aapo Halme, CMF's - Romario Vierra and Jamie Shackleton. AMF's - Jack Clarke and Robbie Gotts and forwards - Ryan Edmundson, Sam Dalby, Adrian Balboa, Olivier Sarkic and Kun Temenuzhkov

And there are others

TBH with that talent around I'm finding it hard to be pessimistic, but break all that up and getting rid of a lot will mean adding 10-12 more players into the mix and starting on the merry go round again of needing a season to bed them all in

Weidwald, Lassoga, Cibicki and Lonergan can move on for me, maybe one or two others if we get a good price. Add a manager who we can all get behind (I'm not sure that's possible) But we need to build from this base we cannot keep digging away the foundations just because the colour on the walls is wrong.

Stick with your plan Rads at least for a while yet
I stopped reading after you said sacko should be on the bench!

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faaip
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Re: No Quick Fix.

Post by faaip » Sat Apr 14, 2018 9:40 am

Ah, then you missed the best bit, tbf to Sacko his last game on the right for us was his most promising so far since the early days under Monk.
"The Autumn Wind is a Raider,
Pillaging just for fun.
He'll knock you 'round and upside down,
And laugh when he's conquered and won."


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Re: No Quick Fix.

Post by SG90 » Sat Apr 14, 2018 2:11 pm

BPF, Weidwald (13 clean sheets despite the mistakes), Ayling, Jansson, Pearce, De Bock, Cooper (sub), Vieira, Forshaw, Klich, Alioski, Pablo, Saiz, Roofe and the u23s all good enough. We need a couple of older heads and a prolific striker. I don't agree with Heckingbottom that the team isn't good enough, he's ruined players like Saiz, Jansson, Alioski and Lasogga and taken us backwards.

Helander (£3-4m), Michael Dawson (free), Charlie Adam (free) , Joey Barton (hate to say it, but what we sorely need, free), Abel Hernandez (free) , Lucas Nmecha (loan), Diogo Goncalves (loan). All these players would be huge improvements and wouldn't need us to break the bank for them.

But most importantly, we need a much better manager.

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Re: No Quick Fix.

Post by faaip » Sat Apr 14, 2018 3:02 pm

Someone needs to teach Weidwald how to keep goal because he's clueless but I'm ok with him backing up BPF next season...
"The Autumn Wind is a Raider,
Pillaging just for fun.
He'll knock you 'round and upside down,
And laugh when he's conquered and won."


THE EVIL EMPIRE

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