Tactical Identity

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Cjay
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Tactical Identity

Post by Cjay » Thu Mar 08, 2018 4:25 am

In the summer we signed technical players from Europe for the u23s and other youth teams.

We appointed a manager whose footballing education was largely from Johan Cruyff. Though only making a few cup appearances for Cruyff TC was apparently around the 1st team a lot during his 6 years with Barcelona . So he had intimate knowledge of the methods and ideologies of Cruyff and Barcelona.

This was no accident, the buying players from the Spanish academies, the appointment of TC, it was all part of the Barcelona way. Teach the same style from youth team up, so when they reach the 1st team there perfectly used to the system.

So under TC as per the teachings of Cruyff, Barcelona and I'm sure a man TC studied as a former teammate Pep we set about replicating the style (still evident in the u23s to this day).

We pressed high as a unit, we played with energy and fought for the ball, but we were equally patient passing around the defence hoping to create a gap which we could pass through. As soon as we lost possession the back 4 settled into a sturdy shape while the more attacking players pressed and tried to win it back, one midfielder would patrol just in front of the back 4 plugging gaps. We rarely were direct, launching it towards the striker was a rare thing, if it was necessary we absolutely made sure to compete for the 2nd balls as a group not as individuals.

It wasnt perfect, we got it wrong sometimes, the style required attacking full backs, consequently Ayling did end up out of position. But Vieira would try and cover or Jansson and Vieira would cover for him. Players were organised at least, they knew there roles. And when it clicked we looked a proper team. Not just against rubbish teams as some suggest, but decent sides. Villa, Boro, Fulham, Derby, Bristol City, Burnley (cup), even Wolves away for 15 20mins second half.

For a team learning a very difficult style we did well all things considered, Pep himself struggled to do the same at City 1st season. Its not easy.

Fast forward to now, we sacked the manager with the Barcelona knowledge, we appointed an old fashioned English manager from Barnsley.

So now gone is the passing it from the back, gone is the high intensity , gone is the trying to maintain a defensive shape, we chase the player or the ball. We do now go direct often, we do now press as individuals because thats the English way"gerr stuck inn". We lack patience, hence the direct hoofs, typical English footballing mentality. Which does explain the obsession Hecky has for "2nd balls". He's alway on about winning them, but 2nd balls come from losing the 1st which invariably is a 50yard hoof.

So by sacking TC but mainly by appointing a totally different sort of manager (because there are English managers who strive for what TC was after). But we didnt get one, we have now got the situation where the youth teams learning one style will turn up in the 1st team and have to learn a totally new style all over again.

Which makes signing these technically good young foreign players a bit daft seeing as they possibly wont have the physical attributes to play the way ole Hecky wants anyway. And we will have to sign players more suited to that style. . . . .

Clive
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Re: Tactical Identity

Post by Clive » Thu Mar 08, 2018 5:05 am

You could forgive a complete change of tactics if they came with an experienced manager who was a winner.

We've ended up with an inexperienced manager with a poor record, who's playing terrible football, getting terrible results, and saying it's because the players are rubbish and we've played teams above us.

Orta gets so much hate, but if Radz is telling the truth and he tried to stop him sacking Christiansen then he was doing the right thing. When you see shots of him he looks angry, like he can see his plan has been messed up. I know a few of his signings haven't worked out, but where would we be without Saiz and Alioski?

Without Orta we could have had someone like Heckingbottom at the start of the season, the signings could have been worse, and we could be in a relegation battle playing hoofball.

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Re: Tactical Identity

Post by Cjay » Thu Mar 08, 2018 12:38 pm

Clive wrote:
Thu Mar 08, 2018 5:05 am
You could forgive a complete change of tactics if they came with an experienced manager who was a winner.

We've ended up with an inexperienced manager with a poor record, who's playing terrible football, getting terrible results, and saying it's because the players are rubbish and we've played teams above us.

Orta gets so much hate, but if Radz is telling the truth and he tried to stop him sacking Christiansen then he was doing the right thing. When you see shots of him he looks angry, like he can see his plan has been messed up. I know a few of his signings haven't worked out, but where would we be without Saiz and Alioski?

Without Orta we could have had someone like Heckingbottom at the start of the season, the signings could have been worse, and we could be in a relegation battle playing hoofball.
Think they both have to take responsability.

Radz isnt the messiah, made the point on another thread, he is no different then Bates or Cellino just has better PR spin.

Orta has wasted a lot of cash, we have spent big money, but on to much quantity, not enough quality and that is down to Orta.

Hecky is a shocking appointment for the reasons mentioned, it completely ruins the grand plan, the identity we were trying to build.

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Re: Tactical Identity

Post by Ratscoot » Thu Mar 08, 2018 5:32 pm

Pretty much what I was on about in the Destroying the Academy thread

My brother messaged me lastnight saying

No shape, no skill, no passion, no pride and no direction.... that’s us under Bates, GFH, the mad Italian and now Radz ..... same s**t different day

Difficult to disagree currently
A bumble bee under the laws of physics shouldnt be able to fly, but it does because no one has told it that it can't

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Richard
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Re: Tactical Identity

Post by Richard » Thu Mar 08, 2018 5:45 pm

When Monk got the sack I felt we were three good players away from top 6

I wasn't bothered about Monk leaving, enough Swansea fans had told me on another forum a lot about him that kind of came true.

I was surprised at the appointment of TC but we were not going to attract a top drawer manager, it was always going to be a coach after the arrival of Orta.

TC had the players brought for him that strongly suggested we were basing the team around Wood and 4-2-3-1 formation. Wood threw a spanner in the works asking to leave and in a panic we bring in Ekuban and Lasogga, Ekuban gets himself injured so we rush Grot into the team.

We all knew we required the signing of Bartley and a good replacement for Wood, Berardi can cover at LB so maybe Anita on a free was worth a gamble at the time with a view to getting in someone better come January.

I don't believe TC was good enough but now injuries and suspensions are back we are ideally set for playing 4-2-3-1 but instead we get a guy who lacks ambition, I mean, who joins a club to coach the players because he doesn't want to have a say in who we sign? PH has openly admitted he hates that side of things, the scouting, the contracts, the signing of players, he likes to coach them.

Well between him and the set piece coach we have got worse since TC departed, we can't clear the front man at our own corners, we have some stupid plan to stand in front of their keeper and run back onside which always fails to produce and we can't defend a corner or set piece to save our lives.

Rads is throwing money down the drain and it will be the same next season unless we get in a Pearson or Big Mick style manager and allow them to dictate who we sign and who we let go. PH and Orta should leave now before it gets worse.

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Re: Tactical Identity

Post by Cjay » Thu Mar 08, 2018 10:06 pm

Clive wrote:
Thu Mar 08, 2018 5:05 am
You could forgive a complete change of tactics if they came with an experienced manager who was a winner.

We've ended up with an inexperienced manager with a poor record, who's playing terrible football, getting terrible results, and saying it's because the players are rubbish and we've played teams above us.

Orta gets so much hate, but if Radz is telling the truth and he tried to stop him sacking Christiansen then he was doing the right thing. When you see shots of him he looks angry, like he can see his plan has been messed up. I know a few of his signings haven't worked out, but where would we be without Saiz and Alioski?

Without Orta we could have had someone like Heckingbottom at the start of the season, the signings could have been worse, and we could be in a relegation battle playing hoofball.
Who picked Heckingbottom? Thats what id like to know.

Who considered all the points i made above, the plans the style etc and thought "i know, you see that bloke with 1 win in 16 down the road, the one who will probably be sacked soon if results dont pick up, the one who the fans of the club are sick to death off, HES THE GUY FOR ME".

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