I'll asked the question again

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Gandalf
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Re: I'll asked the question again

Post by Gandalf » Sun Feb 04, 2018 12:01 pm

As I have said before, he should be given until the end of the season. I am not sure that you could find another coach anywhere in the world (including Guardiola) who could come in and make a big difference considering the lack of options that TC has, especially in defence. Jansson being stretchered off yesterday was the icing on the cake of ill fortune, compounded by Berardi's sending off. Just take a look at the New Manager thread on the dark side, to see the frightening list of options that fans are coming up with. TC knows that he is in last chance saloon, with practically an empty toolbox. Let him do his best, with full fan support, and if, as now seems likely, we do not make the playoffs, then the close season is the best time to be planning a replacement.
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Re: I'll asked the question again

Post by 1964white » Sun Feb 04, 2018 12:02 pm

Out of his depth

Too many poor decisions on & off the pitch

Time to go Thomas

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Re: I'll asked the question again

Post by 1964white » Sun Feb 04, 2018 12:05 pm

Definite GO & STAY so far - some have sat on the fence

7 - GO
3 - STAY

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Re: I'll asked the question again

Post by faaip » Sun Feb 04, 2018 12:43 pm

Gandalf wrote:
Sun Feb 04, 2018 12:01 pm
As I have said before, he should be given until the end of the season. I am not sure that you could find another coach anywhere in the world (including Guardiola) who could come in and make a big difference considering the lack of options that TC has, especially in defence. Jansson being stretchered off yesterday was the icing on the cake of ill fortune, compounded by Berardi's sending off. Just take a look at the New Manager thread on the dark side, to see the frightening list of options that fans are coming up with. TC knows that he is in last chance saloon, with practically an empty toolbox. Let him do his best, with full fan support, and if, as now seems likely, we do not make the playoffs, then the close season is the best time to be planning a replacement.
But is the basis of your argument he's here so we should stick with him or has he showed you that he can be a successful manager here given time. He has had options he's refused to play and he sets the tone of the team on the field. So the disciplinary record is somewhat down to him.

I'm not buying the poor soul he's had to deal with injuries and suspensions because every manager has to do that.
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Re: I'll asked the question again

Post by gessa » Sun Feb 04, 2018 1:04 pm

I don't think he's up to the job but tbe problem I see is who is out there that is up to or who'd want the job.

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Re: I'll asked the question again

Post by faaip » Sun Feb 04, 2018 1:21 pm

I think we're safe from relegation so I'm ok with him staying but only because he's here. Clearly his "book" on how to make us better is a bust though
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Re: I'll asked the question again

Post by TwatsBack » Sun Feb 04, 2018 1:22 pm

Rumour has it, that the well spoken Dutch man, Steve McClaren was spotted at ER in the West stand yesterday?
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Re: I'll asked the question again

Post by 8ballali » Sun Feb 04, 2018 1:25 pm

If McLaren was at Elland Road yesterday, I want to change my vote to TC staying. Lmao.

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Re: I'll asked the question again

Post by Gandalf » Sun Feb 04, 2018 1:34 pm

faaip wrote:
Sun Feb 04, 2018 12:43 pm
But is the basis of your argument he's here so we should stick with him or has he showed you that he can be a successful manager here given time. He has had options he's refused to play and he sets the tone of the team on the field. So the disciplinary record is somewhat down to him.

I'm not buying the poor soul he's had to deal with injuries and suspensions because every manager has to do that.
The basis of the argument is that this is not the time to change the manager, especially considering the dearth of good options, and the fact that we only have half a defence. A new man would not be able to bring in new blood until the summer, so we stick with what we have got. Is TC the man to take us forward ? - it appears not, but replacing him now wouldn't solve anything. IMO.
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Re: I'll asked the question again

Post by faaip » Sun Feb 04, 2018 1:40 pm

Gandalf wrote:
Sun Feb 04, 2018 1:34 pm
The basis of the argument is that this is not the time to change the manager, especially considering the dearth of good options, and the fact that we only have half a defence. A new man would not be able to bring in new blood until the summer, so we stick with what we have got. Is TC the man to take us forward ? - it appears not, but replacing him now wouldn't solve anything. IMO.
There's an argument that a new manager would get 3 months with the team to see what he has, how it works within his scheme and all that in real season time. The problem with off season signings is that they start from scratch with only a few training sessions and the odd meaningless friendly to get prepared
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Re: I'll asked the question again

Post by 8ballali » Sun Feb 04, 2018 2:40 pm

Gandalf wrote: The basis of the argument is that this is not the time to change the manager, especially considering the dearth of good options, and the fact that we only have half a defence. A new man would not be able to bring in new blood until the summer, so we stick with what we have got. Is TC the man to take us forward ? - it appears not, but replacing him now wouldn't solve anything. IMO.
True, a new manager wouldn't be able to bring in new players. But he would have time to assess what he has, and what he needs, in real matches. If a new man starts next season, he has all of his learning and settling in to do at the start of the new season, with less time than usual with the players due to the world Cup.
As you say, it appears he isn't the man for the job. I know it isn't all his fault, but if changes need making, this is the best time to do it.
I'm one of the people that believes in giving managers time. But TC got the job because he said he'd change things if we were losing, when Monk didn't. He hadn't. He's stuck rigidly to the formation, and brought in weaker players in the same positions, not changed the challenge for the opposition to try to cope with.

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Re: I'll asked the question again

Post by weasel » Sun Feb 04, 2018 2:50 pm

1964white wrote:
Sun Feb 04, 2018 8:48 am
We were discussing this on our coach yesterday

Someone posed the question & I came up with the Barnsley game in late November then we all struggled to come up with a game until one of our lads mentioned Middlebro' at ER then we struggled to come up with an answer, another then said you have to go back to the Forest/Sunderland in the autumn.
Finally one of our lads said it just shows how bad things are when us fanatical Leeds fans can't remember when we played well.

Had these performances come under Cellino/Hockaday management, a time when our club was almost going bankrupt again there would have been all hell to play from our fans
Although if I asked you to name good Leeds performances in the last 5 years there wouldn't be many. This season I would say at least 5 - Forest, Sunderland, Burton (H), Barnsley and Boro and parts of other matches where we have played well too. There was 1 decent performance last season when we beat Derby with a penalty (despite all our possession I don't think their keeper actually made a save). I keep repeating it but we are not a great team, we were an average team that had a striker having a great season and in Green, PJ and Bartley we kept a lot of clean sheets - when Bartley or PJ was out last season we were generally awful at the back. Yet deluded Leeds fans seem to believe we should simply be battering every team we play despite not having been able to do in any of the last few years. Yes we have a few decentish players but so does every team in this league. Monk got lucky last season with Wood having a great season - without that at Boro this season it showed he wasn't a great manager and it also highlights how important Wood was for us as it highlights how we got away with a lot of fortunate wins last season.

We have to face reality we are a mid table side squadwise. Yes we have players that on their day are awesome, Saiz, Hernandez, Lasogga, Vieira and PJ certainly fall into that category, but these are players that don't produce week in week out - PJ the one possible exception but that is more down to his position. When was Saiz's last good game?, ditto Vieira, dito Hernandez, Lasogga was good v Millwall but before that?

So we have an average squad in an average position playing average football. I don't blame TC for that and I don't blame Orta for it either as I don't feel that Orta's job was to get a brilliant side assembled this season and I don't think TC has a good enough first team let alone squad. For everyone laying into TC I say judge him when he has at the very least a strong XI available to him. And for those judging Orta judge him when the actual timeframe for promotion is up rather than now as his remit wasn't just for this season.
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Re: I'll asked the question again

Post by weasel » Sun Feb 04, 2018 2:51 pm

In short TC still has my backing
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Re: I'll asked the question again

Post by Cjay » Sun Feb 04, 2018 2:52 pm

1964white wrote:
Sun Feb 04, 2018 8:48 am
We were discussing this on our coach yesterday

Someone posed the question & I came up with the Barnsley game in late November then we all struggled to come up with a game until one of our lads mentioned Middlebro' at ER then we struggled to come up with an answer, another then said you have to go back to the Forest/Sunderland in the autumn.
Finally one of our lads said it just shows how bad things are when us fanatical Leeds fans can't remember when we played well.

Had these performances come under Cellino/Hockaday management, a time when our club was almost going bankrupt again there would have been all hell to play from our fans
Just on the "if this had happened under Cellino" bit.

How would fans have reacted had Wood and Taylor left this season under his watch.

Spent the money received and nothing else.

Effectively spend nothing on new players?

This isnt a conspiracy its a fact, Radz has spent nothing on players.

Buying the stadium back, having tours on matchday, getting all the income, probably paid for the stadium by now.

Great PR but actually has Radz done anything for leeds really when you think about it?

Not against him but think fans should be questioning more.
Last edited by Cjay on Sun Feb 04, 2018 3:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: I'll asked the question again

Post by faaip » Sun Feb 04, 2018 2:54 pm

weasel wrote:
Sun Feb 04, 2018 2:50 pm
Although if I asked you to name good Leeds performances in the last 5 years there wouldn't be many. This season I would say at least 5 - Forest, Sunderland, Burton (H), Barnsley and Boro and parts of other matches where we have played well too. There was 1 decent performance last season when we beat Derby with a penalty (despite all our possession I don't think their keeper actually made a save). I keep repeating it but we are not a great team, we were an average team that had a striker having a great season and in Green, PJ and Bartley we kept a lot of clean sheets - when Bartley or PJ was out last season we were generally awful at the back. Yet deluded Leeds fans seem to believe we should simply be battering every team we play despite not having been able to do in any of the last few years. Yes we have a few decentish players but so does every team in this league. Monk got lucky last season with Wood having a great season - without that at Boro this season it showed he wasn't a great manager and it also highlights how important Wood was for us as it highlights how we got away with a lot of fortunate wins last season.

We have to face reality we are a mid table side squadwise. Yes we have players that on their day are awesome, Saiz, Hernandez, Lasogga, Vieira and PJ certainly fall into that category, but these are players that don't produce week in week out - PJ the one possible exception but that is more down to his position. When was Saiz's last good game?, ditto Vieira, dito Hernandez, Lasogga was good v Millwall but before that?

So we have an average squad in an average position playing average football. I don't blame TC for that and I don't blame Orta for it either as I don't feel that Orta's job was to get a brilliant side assembled this season and I don't think TC has a good enough first team let alone squad. For everyone laying into TC I say judge him when he has at the very least a strong XI available to him. And for those judging Orta judge him when the actual timeframe for promotion is up rather than now as his remit wasn't just for this season.
So...we've been bad for years so lets stay bad?
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Re: I'll asked the question again

Post by Cjay » Sun Feb 04, 2018 3:34 pm

weasel wrote:
Sun Feb 04, 2018 2:50 pm
Although if I asked you to name good Leeds performances in the last 5 years there wouldn't be many. This season I would say at least 5 - Forest, Sunderland, Burton (H), Barnsley and Boro and parts of other matches where we have played well too. There was 1 decent performance last season when we beat Derby with a penalty (despite all our possession I don't think their keeper actually made a save). I keep repeating it but we are not a great team, we were an average team that had a striker having a great season and in Green, PJ and Bartley we kept a lot of clean sheets - when Bartley or PJ was out last season we were generally awful at the back. Yet deluded Leeds fans seem to believe we should simply be battering every team we play despite not having been able to do in any of the last few years. Yes we have a few decentish players but so does every team in this league. Monk got lucky last season with Wood having a great season - without that at Boro this season it showed he wasn't a great manager and it also highlights how important Wood was for us as it highlights how we got away with a lot of fortunate wins last season.

We have to face reality we are a mid table side squadwise. Yes we have players that on their day are awesome, Saiz, Hernandez, Lasogga, Vieira and PJ certainly fall into that category, but these are players that don't produce week in week out - PJ the one possible exception but that is more down to his position. When was Saiz's last good game?, ditto Vieira, dito Hernandez, Lasogga was good v Millwall but before that?

So we have an average squad in an average position playing average football. I don't blame TC for that and I don't blame Orta for it either as I don't feel that Orta's job was to get a brilliant side assembled this season and I don't think TC has a good enough first team let alone squad. For everyone laying into TC I say judge him when he has at the very least a strong XI available to him. And for those judging Orta judge him when the actual timeframe for promotion is up rather than now as his remit wasn't just for this season.
Radz said 5 years so we judge Orta by the same time frame?

On that basis TC gets 5 years as well.

Regardless of what happens during that time.

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Re: I'll asked the question again

Post by 1964white » Sun Feb 04, 2018 3:42 pm

Gandalf wrote:
Sun Feb 04, 2018 1:34 pm
Is TC the man to take us forward ? - it appears not, but replacing him now wouldn't solve anything
You are probably right which doesn't bode well for our fans, although if we are in a position to play our best XI during March/April we are likely to pick up a few wins all be it too late !

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Re: I'll asked the question again

Post by 1964white » Sun Feb 04, 2018 5:01 pm

Christiansen hasn't got a clue he just stood there yesterday like a rabbit in the headlights. To take Lassoga off for Sacko sealed his fate with the fans I'm afraid. I can't even bare listening to his interviews after the games he's embarrassing. It's no mystery to me why we are so weak and easy to play against just look at the manager/head coach weakness personified.

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Re: I'll asked the question again

Post by Oscar » Sun Feb 04, 2018 5:43 pm

Go, the results and performances have been poor all season and I just think he is a very average manager/head coach in all honesty, his ideas just don't suit the Championship at all especially since teams have realised what that is and how to counteract it. I would probably be willing to give Christiansen time despite the results if there was any sign that we were going to turn it around but there isn't.

The potential is there for this team to do really well we have a good selection of full backs, one of the best centre backs outside of the Premier Leagues top 6, a very promising player in Vieira, I also think Ekuban, Phillips and Coyle have a lot of potential as well if they are managed correctly. We have two of the best technicians in the league in Pablo and Saiz. Plus the likes of Alioski and Forshaw are players who have shown in the past that they have the technical ability to do well at this level.

If we can make the right appointment and signings in the summer I still have a lot of confidence that next season could be great. It's so important no matter what that we finish the season on a high/show some sign of improvement and the only way that can happen is if we make a change imo.
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Re: I'll asked the question again

Post by faaip » Sun Feb 04, 2018 6:02 pm

Oscar wrote:
Sun Feb 04, 2018 5:43 pm
Go, the results and performances have been poor all season and I just think he is a very average manager/head coach in all honesty, his ideas just don't suit the Championship at all especially since teams have realised what that is and how to counteract it. I would probably be willing to give Christiansen time despite the results if there was any sign that we were going to turn it around but there isn't.

The potential is there for this team to do really well we have a good selection of full backs, one of the best centre backs outside of the Premier Leagues top 6, a very promising player in Vieira, I also think Ekuban, Phillips and Coyle have a lot of potential as well if they are managed correctly. We have two of the best technicians in the league in Pablo and Saiz. Plus the likes of Alioski and Forshaw are players who have shown in the past that they have the technical ability to do well at this level.

If we can make the right appointment and signings in the summer I still have a lot of confidence that next season could be great. It's so important no matter what that we finish the season on a high/show some sign of improvement and the only way that can happen is if we make a change imo.
Absolutly, players here are top 6 quality
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