What next under Cellino?

[dezzy]

Brilliant news! Seems like a lunatic, but who else would take over the club after all the blood suckers who have infested our club over the past few years. It's going to be a drastic few months with all the changes but let's strap ourselves in and enjoy

[drsdadsotherson]

He may be a lunatic, but he's OUR lunatic.

[ldsutd]

He may be a lunatic, but he's OUR lunatic.

[Twiggster]

He may be a lunatic, but he's OUR lunatic.

Same was said of Bates - except the word was "CANT", not lunatic.......

[Martyn]

Same was said of Bates - except the word was "CANT", not lunatic.......

Only by those, like you, who believed in him.

[Twiggster]

Only by those, like you, who believed in him.

True - I never believed in him, but I did hope....which is why I made the comment.

[Martyn]

True - I never believed in him, but I did hope....which is why I made the comment.

In the early days of bates you were a cheerleader for him. You changed when the tide of opinion turned against him.

Some stayed firm in their support for him, some were against the crook from the start.

[Twiggster]

In the early days of bates you were a cheerleader for him. You changed when the tide of opinion turned against him.

Some stayed firm in their support for him, some were against the crook from the start.

And others like myself learned with time - fug all to do with other peoples' opinions, just realisation.....no idea what YOUR stance was when Bates arrived as you weren't on here at the time. I shall ask..... :mrgreen:

[Martyn]

And others like myself learned with time - fug all to do with other peoples' opinions, just realisation.....no idea what YOUR stance was when Bates arrived as you weren't on here at the time. I shall ask..... :mrgreen:

Yes you do know what my views were because we were both on waccoe.

I was always against bates, you went with the wind.

[Twiggster]

Yes you do know what my views were because we were both on waccoe.

I was always against bates, you went with the wind.

I was on wacko yes - still am - only ever came across you on the old music thread. Never saw you post a thing about Bates, or even football.

We will see what comes up.

[Martyn]

I was on wacko yes - still am - only ever came across you on the old music thread. Never saw you post a thing about Bates, or even football.

We will see what comes up.

Selective vision again.

Howson was invisible and Hunter was a midfield player.

[Gandalf]

Cellino warming up for McDermott.

http://www.sportsmole.co.uk/football/ca ... 48537.html

[CptCrash]

So the FL still have to rubber stamp Cellino at a board meeting this Thursday!...............

Does that tie his hands until then? I am not sure if/how a QC's verdict can be appealed or what the FL can do if, down the line, the verdict of the Italian tax appeal does show 'dishonesty' but I just want the ride to start and will be frustrated beyond reason if this drags into and (God forbid) beyond Thursday!!

One thing for sure, another week of frrequent news updates is in store for us all.

[Martyn]

Technically they could probably remove him in a few weeks or months when the reasoned judgement is published from the March 18 case, but given that they have taken no action against Carson Yeung or Karl Oyston they would be foolish in the extreme to do so.

Similarly, if they were to go against the decision of the independent QC on Thursday, Cellino would have them in court faster than you can say Mishcon de Reya.

They are going to have to grit their teeth and accept him.

[becchio bear]

Technically they could probably remove him in a few weeks or months when the reasoned judgement is published from the March 18 case, but given that they have taken no action against Carson Yeung or Karl Oyston they would be foolish in the extreme to do so.

Similarly, if they were to go against the decision of the independent QC on Thursday, Cellino would have them in court faster than you can say Mishcon de Reya.

They are going to have to grit their teeth and accept him.

A bit like you then GW

[Martyn]

A bit like you then GW

Nice one BB

[mav]

I just hope we have not jumped from the frying pan into the fire.

[andywatson]

I didn’t want to jump in to this with a Twitter style knee jerk reaction, but to take some time and consider exactly where I think we might be going.
To be clear, I don’t like Cellinos background. OK, tax evasion isn’t up there with murder, but some of the judicial comments made after his cases have been damning. One judge described him as a man that would stop at nothing to get his way or cut a corner. The yacht case is typical. There was no reason he couldn’t have paid tax on it, but he thought he could get away with it and so he tried. If this was a politician we would be baying for his blood. Because he is a business man we kind of shrug our shoulders and let it go- despite the fact that it means the rest of society has to pay the shortfall. If you accept Leeds United has a community responsibility then this does not sit well. However he is what we have, and we have to set that aside and judge him on his actions from here on.
The stat that, quite frankly, terrifies me is the managerial merry go round he has presided over at Cagliari. There are several possible reasons for this- none of which fill me with confidence. I think we all know the club needs a top to bottom clean out. Now imagine that you are the manager and you have been given a reasonable budget to achieve this. Who do you buy? Talented youngsters that can, given time, develop into exceptionally gifted players? What’s the point- you won’t be there to see the benefit. Less able players capable of doing a job to keep you in yours with no thought to the future- step forward Mr Neil Warnock. Unless Cellino massively opens the purse strings- and he never did this at Cagliari, then I think this aspect of his character could well act as a limit to our attainment. Unfortunately we are all looking at his bank balance and thinking it is what we need to project us to the top of the pile again. If he repeats his Cagliari performance with managers then his money becomes an irrelevance as short termism prevents anyone building for the future.
So, the first question is the manager. I don’t forget something about McDermott-the reaction he was received with when appointed. Almost everyone was comfortable with the appointment (Faaip was the only real dissenter), but everyone else seemed to be OK with it. However there was a problem- people realised that McDermotts style of playing with pace and wingers did not match the players we had available after Warnock. Everyone that backed McDermott on one hand then said he needed solid investment to revitalise the team. I think we can all agree this has not been exactly forthcoming. McDermott has been left with a squad that cannot play as he would want them to, but without the capacity to change it. So what does Cellino do here? Well to my mind the first question is can they begin to work together? Do they even want to? If the answer from both parties is yes to both questions, then fair enough. If not get rid now, and start looking for the next man whilst we have time and space to make a decent appointment who then has time to scout out the right players. If both Cellino & McDermott think they can work together then Cellino HAS to get his cheque book out and give McDermott some real clarity. This is how much you have to spend. No more, no less. Who do you want? What will these players achieve? McDermott has underachieved, no doubt about it- but there is a very long list of extenuating circumstances (excuses if you want to spin it negatively) that I feel makes it difficult to judge him fairly.
Once the new man is in place, or McDermott is given a fresh start, then please- FFS- give the guy some time. Grayson is being looked at again by fans as a possible “step up” from McDermott. These are the same fans that sneeringly referred to him as a “good league 1 manager” who had no idea about defending and all manner of other insults. Maybe if he hadn’t been sacked his team would have been able to develop into something decent. But no, he was sacked, Warnock came in and took the team in the direction he wanted to go- undoing much of Graysons work, and then McDermott came in and did the same. The problem with chopping/changing all the time is no ones plans ever get the time to come together, so there is never any progress. So whoever the new manager is- tell them they have 3-5 years to put together a team capable of being promoted to the premiership and staying there. I can wait a little longer than the 2016 Cellino is promising in return for stability and sustainable growth. We, as fans, have a major part to play here. Cellino strikes me as someone capable of very emotional reactions, and the kind of man that will cut off his nose to spite his face. We need to be part of the moderating influence- that we have ben shat on for so long we will be patient in seeing things done the right way.
Elland road and Thorpe Arch. OK, I am probably well off message here, but here goes. Do we need to buy them back? Yes, maybe. That’s right- I am actually saying that buying ER might NOT be the right thing. Here’s why. Firstly I advocated that I would be happy as a leeds fan to see us level off somewhere such as where we are now in return for a club I could be proud of. I was uncomfortable accepting a morally bankrupt owner in return for on field success. I first made this statement referring to Bates- who managed to deliver bankruptcy in both financial and moral terms. However it does remain relevant to Cellino. But it seems clear to me now that this is not actually sustainable. As a championship, or below, side we cannot generate the revenue to support both ER and TA. Now there are reasons for this- maybe once the season ticket money Bates took comes back on stream then the situation will be resolved. Maybe not- I don’t know. What is clear is the rent on ER/TA is crippling us at the moment. So the obvious thing to do is buy ER/TA back. As Cellino promised. BUT. Lets just imagine for a moment I am some business man sitting in…..the British Virgin Islands for example. An a billionaire turned up waving his check book to buy a stadium I own that is making me a very good rental income. Well I know I have this guy over a barrel. I start to wonder if I can even think of a number big enough to put this bloke off. Especially if he has promised everyone he is going to buy it. So if Cellino is sensible he must look at the numbers here- not the emotion. He will have a pot of money he has mentally committed to Leeds united. If all the money goes into buying back the ground, then where does the money for the players come from? As Bates proved to us so admirably, it is no good spending all that money on infrastructure and leaving the playing staff cupboard bare. I don’t know the numbers involved, but there must be 3 options available to Cellino:
• Buy back the ground.
• Continue to rent the ground.
• Build a new stadium and move the club.
That’s right- option number 3 is there. If it isn’t then Cellino has absolutely no option but to pay whatever the shyster landlords demand for either rent or sale of ER/TA. If we (he) pays too much for this then the money has to come from somewhere else. Lots of clubs have built and moved grounds in recent years. Whilst we have a lot of history at ER, it shouldn’t become the mill stone that then keeps us down. Certainly Thorpe Arch seems to be an asset that is easily replaceable if the purchase price is too astronomical. Get some accountants to look at the figures and then accept their financial advice.
Playing squad. Simple. There is no player at Leeds that is irreplaceable. No one. There hasn’t been for a long time now. McCormack has been on fire this season, but is not the kind of player who can easily have be fit into a system. Speak with the manager- whoever that is. Tell him exactly how much money he has available, and how quickly you want results. Discuss the footballing ethos that we will be adopting. If that’s McDermott and his 2 wingers with pace- great. If it’s Tony Pulis with big men up front and robust tacking and long balls- so be it. It could be the flipping Christmas tree for all I care, but decide where we are going and how we will get there. Then look at the money again and see that the resources can be made to match the strategy. There is no point trying to build a squad to play a system that we can’t afford the players to play well. Nether is there any point wasting money on players that won’t be able to fit into where we want to go. Allow him the time and space to buy players for the future that will maximise the impact of that money over time. Get the list of players from the manager, then get those players for him and allow him to build a squad that the fans, manager and club can really get behind.
I have to be honest- I have warmed to Cellino in recent weeks. He seems to understand what fans want. Unfortunately I also remember Ridsdale telling us we don’t need a fan on the board because he was there. You only need to look at this forum- and heaven help us this is the most restrained and well balanced of the leeds forums out there- to see how knee jerk reactions can be. We need stability and time. Unfortunately these are not the things that Cellino is well known for. If Cellino can temper his emotions then he could be a very good match for us, and we could end up anywhere. Unfortunately if he can’t, we could also end up anywhere.

[weasel]

From what I have heard I doubt the manager, be it BMc or a new one, would have final say on the purchasing of players. Likely the manager would have some input but that the decision to buy someone would ultimately be made by Cellino and players would be recommended by the scouts. As such, like most foreign clubs, it is up to the manager/coach to get the best out of the players at his disposal. Cellino has some history of buying cheap and then selling for considerable profit which would suggest he prefers to sign players with potential.

Whether players are signed to fit into the manager/coach's preferred formation I don't know, but likely that we'd be signing better players rather than the recent journeymen pros.

[mav]

my understanding is we have an agreed buyback price for TA and ER - set when we sold up, that price is going up at regular intervals yes but we know what it is and what it will be so we can't be held to ransom over either.