Massimo TOMA thread

[Cozy]

Seems to me that if I put my name up on a Twitter announcing that I've got a tenners worth of investment in a consortium trying to buy the club at the moment then I might get a mention in a local paper... (It's potentially free publicity!) And perhaps this needs to be a catalyst for any potential owner to explain exactly who is behind them in order for a clear and transparent position.....

Maybe that's where the Farnan/Leeds Together group could show ther different to any other party.....

Seems that Cellino still thinks he's pretty much the owner listening to Radio Leeds at the moment.

[Cozy]

Would also be nice if perhaps someone could explain what the problems were last week that gave Flowers the jitters enough to change the SC bid which appears to have been the catalyst for GFH to begin talks with Cellino too...

[The Subhuman]

Would also be nice if perhaps someone could explain what the problems were last week that gave Flowers the jitters enough to change the SC bid which appears to have been the catalyst for GFH to begin talks with Cellino too...

I'd imagine he found out our outgoings are much higher than our incomings ..GFH looking for a return on their investment and asking for more than clubs worth..what are our assets..McCormack, Byram? is Murphy still worth a mill?..

[The Subhuman]

we appear to be clutching at straws

[Cozy]

We're all forgetting.... The rich oil Sheikh hasn't yet made an appearance yet... He's bound to turn up at some point...

[gessa]

Still Cellino for me, only on a gut feeling, which is he wants to be in amongst the premier elite and I feel he thinks we are the cheaper option than most, and will do what it takes to get us there. As regard to his past , I draw loose comparisons to Abromovich, ok he hasn't been charged with any crime, as far as I know, but he has been linked to quite a few, other than "The special one" he has changed manager at frequent intervals, ask any Chelsea fan if they'd rather be where they are now or where they were before he took them over.

Non of the other options seem like they have the money to spend once they have acquired the club, plus I don't like coalitions or partnerships.


SECURITY

[Gandalf]

Have we not learned from previous mistakes ?

If Friday's debacle couldn't persuade you, then just take a look at Cellino's past record. He may be a wealthy man, but there is no clear evidence that he has put much of it into Cagliari. Apart from one season early in Cellino's stewardship, when they manged to grab a UEFA Cup place and make it to the Semi Final, they have spent the rest of his 22 years in charge fighting relegation (and occasionally failing).

He has sacked more managers than I have had hot dinners, including sacking 3 before November in the 2005-06 season, and Friday's events have shown us he has not lost that trait. He also has a notorious habit of flogging his best players and replacing them with unknown punts (sound familiar ?). Add to that he has full control of player recruitment, and expects his managers to coach.

His final nail in the coffin (as far as I am concerned) is his pushing most of the club's funds into lavish building projects (sound familiar ?), which normally put him into conflict with the local council (sound familiar ?), and which has ended up with Cagliari's new stadium lying empty due to being unable to get a safety certificate. As a result they now play their home games 500 miles from Sardinia in Trieste on the Slovenian border.

I don't really care whether Sport Capital / Farnan have mega funds backing them. As long as they have enough to purchase the club, and clear existing debts, and then have a sustainable and forward thinking plan to move LUFC forward, both on the pitch and with the Academy, then I would be happy. Any group that has Adam Pearson involved - a man I greatly admire - then I would be supportive of them.

Guess which way I voted

[Martyn]

Thing is Gandi, there are still those around who got a vicarious thrill from Bates' dodgy dealings and are looking forward to another fix of lies and corruption.

[Gino 1959]

really good post, Gandi. If we were in the Prem/Europe maybe the majority of fans wouldn't care if the Kray Twins were in charge, but I happen to think that a club - my club - should be the moral heartbeat of its community.

This Italian guy sounds like he might give us initial highs, but I fear for the real lows I suspect will follow.

Neither option sounds attractive so I've abstained in this vote.

[Gandalf]

Thing is Gandi, there are still those around who got a vicarious thrill from Bates' dodgy dealings and are looking forward to another fix of lies and corruption.

Yeah, you're right. What would would I have to whinge about, and I wouldn't be able to use my LUFC funded qualification in double entry book-keeping. I 'm changing my vote - Cellino in !

[andywatson]

Wow- just read that back and I think I wore out the swear filter!

[MeeTa]

First of all Andy, great post. And hard to disagree with any of what you wrote. Though i do believe most of it is fairytale wishful thinking.

"I want people that will look to the community and be involved in it. I want to see East Stand Upper open every home game with free tickets for school kids- building fans for the future. I want to watch as our home grown talent develops over time into a squad we can relate to and be proud of."

This is of course the perfect and most optimal way of things to be, but does such an owner exist? I dont believe it does anymore.

And even though you do make some good points when it comes to Cellino, i will still give my vote to him when the only other choice i have are consortium's full of investors who ONLY think short term, and only think profits and selling the club to get the best return for their investment.

[The Subhuman]

Don't believe I mentioned Ken Bates at all..don't recall asking anybody how I should think, don't recall telling anybody their stupid or gullible if they think a SC/Farnan Coalition a viable alternative.

[Martyn]

Spot on Andy.

There are a few of us, maybe the minority, who think that way too.

[weasel]

I want to see East Stand Upper open every home game with free tickets for school kids- building fans for the future. I want to watch as our home grown talent develops over time into a squad we can relate to and be proud of.

Whilst I agree with the principles of the majority of your post the trouble is that football clubs are all run as businesses unless it is the case that money is not the issue, i.e. Chelsea and Man City. As such it matters not whether it is Bates, an Italian, GFH, the new consortium etc they all want to at least break even and pay the wages, pay the investors, pay the share dividends etc. The only difference is that some investors may take a risk to try to get the premiership payday and throw money at things.

The Premiership has ruined the community football. The gulf in money between the Premiership teams and Championship sides is immense. No longer can a Leeds match the wages of a higher division club to lure a Strachan to drop down a division, or even a Chapman, Sterland, Jones etc. And likewise we could never see a home grown team develop over a few years unless we were in the premiership as Premiership clubs would simply lure them away with bigger wages and even if we wanted to keep them the Bosman ruling makes it impossible - see Beckford and Johnson.

The only way we can get a home grown team is to already be in the premiership. Southampton had to keep selling their talents until they managed to get promoted to the prem. Wouldn't they love to have Bale, Oxlade-Chamberlain and Walcott in their side now?

We are a business. We are struggling to break even and discounted tickets, whilst a great idea, is not a practical one.

[Martyn]

Well, it looks like the Football League will be bugger-all help

[MeeTa]

Whilst I agree with the principles of the majority of your post the trouble is that football clubs are all run as businesses unless it is the case that money is not the issue, i.e. Chelsea and Man City. As such it matters not whether it is Bates, an Italian, GFH, the new consortium etc they all want to at least break even and pay the wages, pay the investors, pay the share dividends etc. The only difference is that some investors may take a risk to try to get the premiership payday and throw money at things.

The Premiership has ruined the community football. The gulf in money between the Premiership teams and Championship sides is immense. No longer can a Leeds match the wages of a higher division club to lure a Strachan to drop down a division, or even a Chapman, Sterland, Jones etc. And likewise we could never see a home grown team develop over a few years unless we were in the premiership as Premiership clubs would simply lure them away with bigger wages and even if we wanted to keep them the Bosman ruling makes it impossible - see Beckford and Johnson.

The only way we can get a home grown team is to already be in the premiership. Southampton had to keep selling their talents until they managed to get promoted to the prem. Wouldn't they love to have Bale, Oxlade-Chamberlain and Walcott in their side now?

We are a business. We are struggling to break even and discounted tickets, whilst a great idea, is not a practical one.

fully agreed

[theleedsmango]

The truth of the matter is that the community loving, honest, charitable businessmen don't have the wealth that the ruthless, selfish, self-made businessmen have...and the adjectives used there point to the reason why.

Judging by the media reaction over the past few days, there is going to be huge public interest when Leeds return to the Premiership. It's taken this farcical weekend to bring our story to a media land that only cares about Premiership football and disasters. We fit in to the latter. But very little was in the news about Ken Bates and his antics. The GFH takeover slipped very much under the radar. Now the pressure is on. The media is interested. The fan backlash is huge. And GFH have a reputation to protect.

Make no mistake about it, this weekend has been a great thing for us. While the media has it's eyes on what's happening, hoping to capitalise on any further disasters at Elland Road, the pressure is on.

GFH can't just do a runner now. The Football League can't just OK potential new owners without any questions from the media. In fact, I've heard many radio/TV presenters saying how The Football League handle this is of huge importance to the future of football. Bates would have been crying his eyes out at this attention.

For once, I'm glad the media is so interested in our disasters.

[andywatson]

I accept that many of the points I raised are idealistic, but I see no reason why we cannot work off a business model that is similar.

How long has East Stand Upper been closed for now? Give every school in the area 20 free tickets for each game along with 2 teacher tickets to supervise- some minimal cost in stewarding and some increased (minimal) revenue from programmes and sweets. Replica shirts and future ticket sales will see it produce money instead of being an empty waste of space. It's building a stadium and maintaining it that costs money- not having an area open.

It is perfectly possible, over time, to gradually improve the squad. Southampton are an excellent example- selling players they have developed to finance new ones with a gradual improvement in the squad over a number of years. Yes they have had a number of "marquee" sales over the years- but we have developed and sold plenty of our own- unfortunately most have gone in assorted fire sales over the years- rather than as a structured and sensible turnover in a squad development plan. Lets face it, most of us would have accepted McCormack going this season (with the end of any remote promotion prospects) if we knew the majority of the money would find it's way back into the squad, and we have been this way for years. The only problem is the money has always vanished.

The simple fact is we knew Bates was a ba***rd- we just hoped he was our ba***rd- and then (some) were surprised when he turned out to be out for himself all along. What makes you think Cellino will be any different except wishful thinking.

There is no reason for the club not to have a moral code that we can and should aspire to. I suggest that fraud and embezzlement would not be a starting point for this. I seriously hope he fails the fit and proper persons test. If he doesn't then the football league are showing themselves to be equally morally bankrupt.

To those that would take his money- I ask 2 questions:

1) How do you know, given his history, that he will not embezzle/defraud any money left in Leeds united before throwing away the empty shell?

and possibly more important for your own moral compass

2) How serious could his criminal past be before you would ignore it in exchange for premiership football?

[Martyn]

Just reading the excellent Henry Winter's piece for the Telegraph, and came across this timebomb:

"GFH, the Bahrain-based investment bank, must also clarify whether it has any connection with the Qatari bidders for Cellino’s Cagliari."

Full story here